Author Topic: Francis on cover of The Advocate (Read 2801 times)

poche · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2013, 03:43:33 AM »

What is the scandal on the part of Pope Francis? He hasn't changed any church teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity or marriage. When he was in Argentina he was athorn in Kirchner's side as she passed the immoral legislation. Do you seriously think that he sent in an application asking to be elected their person of the year?

2Vermont · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2013, 04:07:41 AM »

Quote from: shin

Poche, when only one is excommunicated out of thousands, and it is publicized, that's called propaganda not discipline. It would be a matter of intellectual vice for most, to believe that is an actual sign of overall efficacious enforcement of moral and divine law when vast numbers go untouched.

People who believe something because of a single incident are not discerning properly. Such appeals to sentimentalism rather than reality are a sign of an effeminate approach to discernment rather than appropriate use of the intellectual virtues.

If thousands are murdered every day, and then one murder is caught and imprisoned -- but the police ignore the rest, are the police performing their function properly?

No. Perhaps in North Korea that would pass as efficacious enforcement, but not in a just society.

IIRC, he wasn't excommunicated for the reason Poche says. There was more to that story.

2Vermont · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2013, 04:35:27 AM »

Quote from: poche

What is the scandal on the part of Pope Francis? He hasn't changed any church teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity or marriage. When he was in Argentina he was athorn in Kirchner's side as she passed the immoral legislation. Do you seriously think that he sent in an application asking to be elected their person of the year?

From the New Catechism:

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor's tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep's clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

I bolded just one part that seems to fit.

Where has Francis made it clear what the Church teaches regarding ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity AND ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts? Why do you think that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs consider him person of the year? How does "Who am I to judge?" teach Catholic teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity? Comments against gαy marriage isn't enough.

Stubborn · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2013, 04:46:57 AM »

Quote from: poche

What is the scandal on the part of Pope Francis? He hasn't changed any church teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity or marriage. When he was in Argentina he was athorn in Kirchner's side as she passed the immoral legislation. Do you seriously think that he sent in an application asking to be elected their person of the year?

To start with, the pope should condemn the magazine and it's staff, it's readers, printers, ink suppliers, stores that sell the evil thing etc. in the strongest possible language that a pope can use to remove any possible shred of doubt about where the Church stands on the whole homo issue - this is his golden opportunity to condemn them for the whole world to see.

Remember the axiom "Qui tacet consentit" (silence implies consent) - if, as expected, he does nothing, the presumption is that he has no problem with it - this is a (nother) grave scandal on the part of the pope.

2Vermont · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2013, 04:48:51 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: poche
What is the scandal on the part of Pope Francis? He hasn't changed any church teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity or marriage. When he was in Argentina he was athorn in Kirchner's side as she passed the immoral legislation. Do you seriously think that he sent in an application asking to be elected their person of the year?

To start with, the pope should condemn the magazine and it's staff, it's readers, printers, ink suppliers, stores that sell the evil thing etc. in the strongest possible language that a pope can use to remove any possible shred of doubt about where the Church stands on the whole homo issue - this is his golden opportunity to condemn them for the whole world to see.

Remember the axiom "Qui tacet consentit" (silence implies consent) - if, as expected, he does nothing, the presumption is that he has no problem with it - this is a (nother) grave scandal on the part of the pope.

Excellent point.

I won't waste my breath waiting for it though.