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Author Topic: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven  (Read 2645 times)

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Offline Cantarella

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Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
« on: January 30, 2019, 08:07:50 PM »
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    • Pope Francis says mothers who regret abortions should talk to babies in heaven

    Francis speaks of how mothers must reconcile with their babies, and sing to him or her the unsung lullaby
    Pope Francis spoke about abortion Sunday evening as he returned to Rome from the Panama World Youth Day, saying that a person truly understands the horror of abortion from within the confessional, hearing how women repent of their abortions.
    The pope said that unborn babies must be given mercy, since “the message of mercy is for everyone.” And mothers who have aborted must also be given mercy, but, he said, it is a “difficult mercy” because the challenge is not in “giving forgiveness” but in accompanying a woman who has realized what she's done’

    “These are terrible tragedies,” he said.

    “A woman when she thinks about what she did… but I tell you the truth, you have to be in the confessional and you have to give comfort there; you can’t say anything,” the pope reflected.<


    The Holy Father said that women “have to meet with their child.”

    He continued: “I advise many times — when they call, they have this anguish: ‘Your child is in heaven, talk to him. Sing to him the lullaby that you have not sung… you have not been able to sing to him.’ And there is a way for the mother to reconcile with her child. With God there is already forgiveness; God always forgives. But mercy also, that you elaborate this. The tragedy of abortion, to understand it well, one must be in a confessional. Terrible.”

    He again mentioned children at the very end of the press conference.

    Quote
    I want to say another thing that I said when I came back from Colombia, speaking of the experience in Cartagena and the other cities, a thing that we don’t see in Europe, that is, the pride, in this case of the Panamanians. You lift up the children and they say to you, “this is my victory,” “this is my future,” “this is my pride.” This in the midst of the demographic winter we’re living in Europe. In Italy, below zero. It has to make us think. What is my pride? Tourism? The villa [home]? The dog? Or lifting up a child? Thanks! Pray for me, I need it.
    https://aleteia.org/2019/01/28/pope-its-in-the-confessional-where-you-best-understand-abortion/?utm_medium=aleteia_en&utm_campaign=english_page&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2u7Kh4hj_pFIRKWGON5OjBBfq3jUsa7zOi140OCIYBragDcOkwLWbWpzw#Echobox=1548705627
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Merry

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 08:26:05 PM »
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    • Theology is not his strong suit.

    (Actually, Catholicism is not his strong suit.) 
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    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 12:47:53 AM »
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    • Bishop Fellay expressed the same theological premise from the pulpit, three years ago in San Francisco, prior to the "Walk for Life" rally.



    Extrapolating from Baptism of Desire & Blood, he claimed that aborted babies were martyred and thus baptized in their own blood.

    The SSPX has always been admittedly weak in the theological department. 

    But making-up Catholic theology for fun or to fit with modernist approval is surely sinning mortally.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline King Wenceslas

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 04:12:44 PM »
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    • "Pope" Francis at it again with his spirit of Vatican II theology. It's getting comical. :jester:

    If a Catholic literally believed he is an actual pope he/she would throw himself/herself off the top of Yosemite.
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    Offline King Wenceslas

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 04:17:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on January 31, 2019, 12:47:53 AM

    Bishop Fellay expressed the same theological premise from the pulpit, three years ago in San Francisco, prior to the "Walk for Life" rally.



    Extrapolating from Baptism of Desire & Blood, he claimed that aborted babies were martyred and thus baptized in their own blood.

    The SSPX has always been admittedly weak in the theological department.  

    But making-up Catholic theology for fun or to fit with modernist approval is surely sinning mortally.

    If that is true it seems Fellay has got some of that old time religion of Vatican II. SSPX theology?  :facepalm:  You would think he got his ordination in secret from C. Kasper.

    Very good thing to know this.

    Abortion penitent: But Father I was just helping to get my baby into heaven.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 05:39:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on January 31, 2019, 12:47:53 AM
    Extrapolating from Baptism of Desire & Blood, he claimed that aborted babies were martyred and thus baptized in their own blood.

    :facepalm:

    So pretty much everyone who's ever been killed is a martyr.  So if my unbaptized friend was killed by a mugger trying to get his wallet in the alley, he too was a martyr?

    Come on, +Fellay.  Martyrdom requires that one be killed on account of Christ, either directly or indirectly (like St. Maria Goretti who was killed because she refused to commit a sin).  Are there some women and/or abortionists who commit abortions out of contempt for Christ?  Maybe, but the vast majority are just out there for self-serving motives (eliminate the burden of a child, make money, etc.)
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    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 08:44:58 PM »
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    • Francis, 2019:

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    “I advise many times (to post-abortive women) — when they call, they have this anguish: ‘Your child is in heaven, talk to him. Sing to him the lullaby that you have not sung… you have not been able to sing to him.’ And there is a way for the mother to reconcile with her child.

    Pope Pius XII, 1951:

    Quote
    If what We have said up to now concerns the protection and care of natural life, much more so must it concern the supernatural life, which the newly born receives with Baptism. In the present economy there is no other way to communicate that life to the child who has not attained the use of reason. Above all, the state of grace is absolutely necessary at the moment of death without it salvation and supernatural happiness—the beatific vision of God—are impossible. An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism; to the still unborn or newly born this way is not open.


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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 04:42:14 AM »
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    • And from Pope Sixtus V in Effraenatam:

    "Noticing that frequently by various Apostolic Constitutions the audacity and daring of most profligate men, who know no restraint, of sinning with license against the commandment “do not kill” was repressed; We who are placed by the Lord in the supreme throne of justice, being counseled by a most just reason, are in part renewing old laws and in part extending them in order to restrain with just punishment the monstrous and atrocious brutality of those who have no fear to kill most cruelly fetuses still hiding in the maternal viscera. Who will not detest such an abhorrent and evil act, by which are lost not only the bodies but also the souls?"
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 09:14:21 AM »
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    • Excellent citation 2Vermont!

    But just think of it?  
    The pathetic folly of the Baptism of Desire & Blood theology, where in reality, the unbaptized baby's soul is completely abandoned by his human family.

    But ask a BOD advocate, "Well couldn't a relative just "desire" for the aborted baby to be in Heaven?  
    He will reply with a stutter and be unable to articulate the theology to that level.

    These are the Heresies the latest Jєω-Popes have sold us:
    Benedict with his "limbo is empty" thesis and Francis "aborted babies are in Heaven".

    I tell you, this heretical script is coming from the rabbis and it is no coincidence that Bp. Fellay is right in step with it.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 09:31:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on February 01, 2019, 09:14:21 AM
    I tell you, this heretical script is coming from the rabbis ...

    Of course it is.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #10 on: February 01, 2019, 10:11:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on January 31, 2019, 12:47:53 AM

    Francis - Your aborted child is in heaven,

    Bishop Fellay - expressed the same theological premise from the pulpit, three years ago in San Francisco, prior to the "Walk for Life" rally.

    Extrapolating from Baptism of Desire & Blood, he claimed that aborted babies were martyred and thus baptized in their own blood.


    If Bp. Fellay said that, he is an idiot,  just like Francis.  For if they thought about it one iota, they have just given the world the way to personally 100% guarantee Heaven for their children and the children of everyone else, just abort them. It is the easiest way to save the families of non-Catholics, just have them abort their children. Margaret Sanger would then be the greatest saint ever, and Planned Parenthood has saved more people than the Catholic Church.

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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #11 on: February 01, 2019, 11:06:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on February 01, 2019, 10:11:37 AM
    If Bp. Fellay said that, he is an idiot,  just like Francis.  For if they thought about it one iota, they have just given the world the way to personally 100% guarantee Heaven for their children and the children of everyone else, just abort them. It is the easiest way to save the families of non-Catholics, just have them abort their children. Margaret Sanger would then be the greatest saint ever, and Planned Parenthood has saved more people than the Catholic Church.

    Sure, that's the conundrum of the whole anti-EENS mentality.  If you can be saved by following your own erroneous conscience, then the Catholic Church is an OBSTACLE to salvation.

    You see, Catholics believe that all kinds of things are mortal sins that damn the soul if someone dies in that state.  So a Catholic who commits one mortal sin of weakness and dies goes to hell.

    Meanwhile, a Prot think you can "sin boldly" (ala Martin Luther) and just wave your hand around and say, "Jesus" ... even while committing one adultery after another.  That Prot gets saved because he believed it was not a damnable offense.

    Catholics go to hell for missing Mass on Sunday.  Prots can miss all they want and still be saved because they think the don't have to go under pain of sin.  So it becomes harder for Catholics to be saved then for Prots.

    What absurdities the anti-EENS crowd involves themselves in.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Francis on Aborted Babies in Heaven
    « Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 01:25:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on February 01, 2019, 10:11:37 AM
    If Bp. Fellay said that, he is an idiot,  just like Francis.  For if they thought about it one iota, they have just given the world the way to personally 100% guarantee Heaven for their children and the children of everyone else, just abort them. It is the easiest way to save the families of non-Catholics, just have them abort their children. Margaret Sanger would then be the greatest saint ever, and Planned Parenthood has saved more people than the Catholic Church.
    Mine is a "first hand" account of what Bp. Fellay said.  
    The Mass was celebrated at the decommissioned St. Bridgette's church, now run by an art museum.
    There was a "Star of David" in the tile-work over the Sanctuary. 
    To make sure that HE was not photographed during this Mass with the occult symbol overhead, he ordered the security to warn the faithful in the pews that "no photos were allowed".
    The ushers policed the aisles to make sure no pictures were taken.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Geremia

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    Aborted babies CAN be baptized by desire or blood.
    « Reply #13 on: February 01, 2019, 04:00:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on January 31, 2019, 12:47:53 AM
    Extrapolating from Baptism of Desire & Blood, he claimed that aborted babies were martyred and thus baptized in their own blood.
    Some of them certainly might have been. It's not too far-fetched to think that, as rabidly anti-Catholic and anti-Christ as abortionists are (cf. Margaret Sanger), abortion is a modern-day "slaughter of the Innocents," a phrase Pope Pius XI even used (Divini §73) to describe children "in godless schools and associations" that teach, "according to the theories of advanced socialism," "irreligion and hatred".
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Aborted babies CAN be baptized by desire or blood.
    « Reply #14 on: February 01, 2019, 04:06:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Geremia on February 01, 2019, 04:00:56 PM
    Some of them certainly might have been. It's not too far-fetched to think that, as rabidly anti-Catholic and anti-Christ as abortionists are (cf. Margaret Sanger), abortion is a modern-day "slaughter of the Innocents," a phrase Pope Pius XI even used (Divini §73) to describe children "in godless schools and associations" that teach, "according to the theories of advanced socialism," "irreligion and hatred".
    Wait, so you're suggesting that women who have abortions think, "I hate the Catholic Faith, therefore I will abort"?  

    Added: Furthermore, what is with the change in the title of this thread (to say something that is NOT taught by the Catholic Church)?
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