Author Topic: The Holy Oils  (Read 1396 times)

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Offline GloriaOlivae

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The Holy Oils
« on: June 02, 2015, 06:04:29 AM »
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  • Friends, Catholics, Educated Laymen and Clergy,

    It is a rarely spoken about subject.  What I will be sharing today, as far as I know, has not been spoken about for some time, in any popular discourse.  It pertains to the validity of many priests in today's, "Traditionalist movement," or perhaps their necessary sub-conditione ordinations and consecrations.

    The Holy Oils,

    There are some difficulties with Archibishop Thuc and his episcopal consecrations that were reported many years ago in the German publication, Einsicht.  This is the same publication that announced the confusions surrounding Bishop. Roux's reportedly false testimony concerning his own consecration by Archbishop Thuc.  It was reported as follows.  When Fr. Des Lauries approached Bishop Thuc for consecration, there were difficult circumstances.  At that time, Bishop Thuc was assisting in a Diocese in France, and of course, this was after the promulgation of the new order and the new rites and new liturgy.  It was reported that Bishop Thuc was not personally prepared for consecrating Bishops.  In fact, his apartment looked quite unprepared for much of anything.  In several of the photographs of the consecration of Msgr. Gerard De Lauries, there are telephones quite near the Alltar, and several cats roaming quite freely around the very small apartment Bishop Thuc was living in at the time.

    It was reported in that Einsicht publication,  that Bishop Thuc went to the Diocesan Cathedral and received the Holy Oils from the Ambry at that Cathedral, came back to his apartment, and used these Holy Oils to consecrate Fr. Des Lauries.  These Holy Oils would have been consecrated on Holy Thursday according to the new rites of the Novus Ordo, a different liturgy.

    According to the theologians of our Church, if the Holy Oils were not used in an ordination, they must be supplied.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #1 on: June 02, 2015, 06:33:14 AM »
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  • Nope.

    Holy oils are not essential matter for episcopal consecration.

    You may resume eating olives now.


    Offline GloriaOlivae

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #2 on: June 02, 2015, 08:17:59 AM »
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  • According to the theologians of our Church, if the Holy Oils were not used in an ordination, they must be supplied.

    Offline Dolores

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #3 on: June 02, 2015, 08:47:58 AM »
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  • Ladislaus is correct.  Holy oil is not essential to the sacrament of Holy Orders.  A man may be ordained validly (but perhaps illicitly) without holy oil.  The essential matter is the laying of the hands by a bishop on a man.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #4 on: June 02, 2015, 09:10:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: GloriaOlivae
    According to the theologians of our Church, if the Holy Oils were not used in an ordination, they must be supplied.


    Yes, yes.  Just as if someone performs an emergency Baptism the missing ceremonies must be supplied later.  That doesn't render the Baptism invalid.

    So the consecration was also invalid because it was in Bishop Thuc's tiny little apartment which he shared with some cats?

    Just read Bishop Thuc's autobiography.  He was a good man who suffered so very much during his life.


    Offline BTNYC

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #5 on: June 02, 2015, 10:18:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus


    You may resume eating olives now.


    Or pressing them into oils, as the case may be.

    I never thought I'd like a lame, one-note joke poster's shtick less than Devoted Knuckles'. Now I know better.

    Offline Luker

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #6 on: June 02, 2015, 11:22:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: GloriaOlivae
    According to the theologians of our Church, if the Holy Oils were not used in an ordination, they must be supplied.


    Yes, yes.  Just as if someone performs an emergency Baptism the missing ceremonies must be supplied later.  That doesn't render the Baptism invalid.

    So the consecration was also invalid because it was in Bishop Thuc's tiny little apartment which he shared with some cats?

    Just read Bishop Thuc's autobiography.  He was a good man who suffered so very much during his life.



    Do you mind sharing the title of that autobiography and is it posted anywhere online? I would be interested in reading it.

    Many thanks,

    Luke
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!

    Offline Ladislaus

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #7 on: June 02, 2015, 12:41:20 PM »
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  • I found it here.  It appears and disappears from the web from time to time.

    http://www.einsicht-aktuell.de/index.php?svar=2&ausgabe_id=180?iframe=true&artikel_id=1920

    Contrary to what his enemies say, Bishop Thuc was quite lucid to the end of his life.  He could sit at table with priests from different countries and easily switch back and forth between languages.


    Offline BTNYC

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #8 on: June 02, 2015, 12:43:15 PM »
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  • So long, olive-themed troll. Better luck next time!

    Offline magdalena

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    The Holy Oils
    « Reply #9 on: June 08, 2015, 08:35:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    I found it here.  It appears and disappears from the web from time to time.

    http://www.einsicht-aktuell.de/index.php?svar=2&ausgabe_id=180?iframe=true&artikel_id=1920

    Contrary to what his enemies say, Bishop Thuc was quite lucid to the end of his life.  He could sit at table with priests from different countries and easily switch back and forth between languages.


    Thank you, Ladislaus.

     :reading:
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


     

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