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Author Topic: Francis is at it again  (Read 1010 times)

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Offline Merry

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Francis is at it again
« on: August 25, 2017, 07:40:04 PM »
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    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/08/25/pope-francis-invokes-magisterial-authority-to-say-liturgical-reform-is-irreversible/


    Pope Francis Invokes ‘Magisterial Authority’ to Say ‘Liturgical Reform Is Irreversible’



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    by Thomas D. Williams, Ph.D.25 Aug 2017416

    In a rare appeal to his magisterial authority as the Roman pontiff, Pope Francis stated Thursday that the changes made to the Catholic liturgy by the Second Vatican Council are “irreversible.”
    In a lengthy discourse to a group of liturgical experts, the Pope said: “We can affirm with certainty and magisterial authority that the liturgical reform is irreversible.”

    Francis was referring to the changes in Catholic rituals that included the celebration of the Mass in the vernacular languages, the priest facing the people, and a more active participation of the congregation.

    This is not the first time that Pope Francis has expressed his esteem for the 1970 liturgical reform.

    In 2015, Francis voiced his gratitude for the new liturgy on the 50th anniversary of the close of the Second Vatican Council. “Let us give thanks to the Lord for what he has done in his church in these 50 years of liturgical reform. It was really a courageous move by the church to get closer to the people of God so that they could understand well what it does, and this is important for us: to follow Mass like this,” he said.

    At that time, Francis also foreshadowed this week’s comments that the reform is “irreversible.”

    “You cannot turn back,” he told Roman parishioners. “We have to always go forward, always forward and who goes back is making a mistake.”
    Francis’ predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, held a deep appreciation for the older Mass, which is celebrated in Latin, and made it easier for priests to celebrate Mass according to the “extraordinary” form that Catholics used for centuries prior to the Second Vatican Council.

    In a 2007 apostolic letter titled Summorum Pontificuм, Pope Benedict stated that the older Roman Missal that was released after the Council of Trent and revised by Pope John XXIII is even now to be “duly honoured for its venerable and ancient usage.”

    There have been some tensions over the liturgy even inside the Vatican walls, where reportedly Francis doesn’t always see eye-to-eye with the Church’s top liturgical official, Cardinal Robert Sarah of Guinea, especially regarding the value of the older Mass.

    In Thursday’s address, Francis called Catholics to leave behind “disruptive ferments and to “apply integrally” the reform approved by the bishops who took part in the Council.

    After the Council, the bishops wanted a liturgy that is “alive” for a Church “fully enlivened by the celebrated mysteries,” Francis said.
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Francis is at it again
    « Reply #1 on: August 25, 2017, 07:57:55 PM »
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  • Let the shuckin' and jivin' commence...

    I hope he "gets rid of" the "Latin Mass"

    It's getting like a mountain in a flood. Less and less places to stand. Good.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Francis is at it again
    « Reply #2 on: August 25, 2017, 08:14:56 PM »
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  • Quote
    “We can affirm with certainty and magisterial authority that the liturgical reform is irreversible.”
    Ha ha.  The liturgical reform continues.  Who cares?  Any catholic is within his full, legal rights to completely ignore the novus ordo.  One can make the argument that the novus ordo is legal, in the sense that it exists, and this 'reform' (as they call it) can ever be further reformed, and reformed again, and pushed towards the edge of even, satanism.  But who cares?
     
    Quo Primum is the law that governs the liturgy, and it permits and COMMANDS (which is often forgotten) that all catholics attend/use its missal at mass and for the sacraments.  And Benedict XVI confirmed in his "motu" that Quo Primum is still in effect, therefore those that attend/use any other missal than the tridentine rite, commit a grevious sin against the papacy and violate the law.

    The confusion of our situation lies in the fact that Quo Primum, legally speaking, allowed the novus ordo missal to be created (the pharasaical, legalisic, satanic rats found a tiny hole in Quo Primum's law), but Quo Primum did not permit anyone to USE Paul VI's missal.  New-rome says "Hey, this missal is legal, therefore you have to use it."  Traditional catholics say, "Hey, your missal is legal, in the sense that it exists under the law, but it's USE is illegal and sinful.  Sorry, no thanks."  Notice that no one in rome, in the last 50 years, has EVER said that catholics HAVE to go to the novus ordo under pain of sin.  Why?  Because they know they can't enforce such an order.

    Therefore, new-rome can modify and 'renew' their missal all they want, but all catholics can and should ignore it, both for legal and moral reasons.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Francis is at it again
    « Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 08:31:38 PM »
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  • It doesn't take orthodoxy to see how absurd Francis's "irreversible" claim is, just logic.

    If Paul VI had the authority to make the reform in the first place (as Francis obviously believes he had), then a successor to Francis. . .

    The man puts orthodoxy, logic, honesty etc. in a Halloween costume, alternatively a monster and a clown.
    Weaponized heresy makes for super "popes" I guess. It's just 'funny' when he decides to throw his zero g, zero mass "weight" around.

    You can do, be, or say anything, as long as it isn't Catholic.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: Francis is at it again
    « Reply #4 on: August 26, 2017, 05:05:14 AM »
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  • Let the shuckin' and jivin' commence...

    I hope he "gets rid of" the "Latin Mass"

    It's getting like a mountain in a flood. Less and less places to stand. Good.
    Although he did not speak in detail about liturgical guidelines, the Pope said that the reformed liturgy must have three characteristics:


    https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=32455

    Is there a more apt descriptioni of the TLM? It is living with Christ at its center. there would be no TLM if the people didn't participate. What can be a greater bearer of life than the TLM. When you assist at teh mass you are transformed.      


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Francis is at it again
    « Reply #5 on: August 26, 2017, 09:33:18 AM »
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  • Although he did not speak in detail about liturgical guidelines, the Pope said that the reformed liturgy must have three characteristics:


    https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=32455

    Is there a more apt descriptioni of the TLM? It is living with Christ at its center. there would be no TLM if the people didn't participate. What can be a greater bearer of life than the TLM. When you assist at teh mass you are transformed.      
    https://youtu.be/JId1gUlUq_w?t=13
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Francis is at it again
    « Reply #6 on: August 26, 2017, 11:15:52 AM »
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  • I haven't read the whole thing.
    But my lack of trust of Francis is "irreversible"

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Francis is at it again
    « Reply #7 on: August 26, 2017, 12:45:54 PM »
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  • I haven't read the whole thing.
    But my lack of trust of Francis is "irreversible"
    He may have a point there, It was never Catholic and nothing can ever change that fact.