Author Topic: Francis: Im Not Interested in Converting Evangelicals to Catholicism  (Read 1085 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Hey, thanks for clarifying…

Francis: “I’m Not Interested in
Converting Evangelicals to Catholicism”


For all those neo-cons in the Novus Ordo Church who were still in denial over Francis’ repeated affirmations that he opposes converting non-Catholics to Catholicism, “Pope” Jorge Bergoglio reiterated his position once more, this time in a conversation he had with Evangelical Protestant Brian Stiller, who is the Global Ambassador of the World Evangelical Alliance.

Stiller visited Francis in the Vatican in June 2014 and published a blog post about his encounter, entitled “Lunch with the Pope”, on July 9. There are two salient passages in Stiller’s account worth quoting:

We talked about Christians marginalized, pressed under the weight of government power or the majority presence of other faiths. He listened and then told a remarkable story. In his years in and out of Rome, he became friends with the pastor of a Pentecostal Church in Rome. In time he came to learn that the church and pastor felt the power and presence of the Catholic Church, with its weighty presence, obstructing their desire to grow and be a witness. “So,” he said, “this July I will preach in his church on a Sunday and offer an apology from my church for the hurt it has brought to their congregation.”

It’s fair to ask what kind of Catholic Church we as Evangelicals want to see. At lunch I asked Pope Francis what his heart was for evangelism. He smiled, knowing what was behind my question. His comment was, “I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. I want people to find Jesus in their own community. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those. Rather, let’s be about showing the love of Jesus.” (Of course Evangelicals do evangelize Catholics and Catholics do the same to us. However, that discussion we will raise another day.)

(Brian C. Stiller, “Lunch with the Pope”, Dispatches from the Global Village, July 9, 2014; red bold print added.)

So, in the first passage, Francis is quoted as saying that he will apologize to a Protestant congregation for the Catholic Church’s “oppressive presence” in Rome that apparently curbed the heretical sect’s influence and obstructed its efforts to recruit more people. By doing this, Francis once again demonstrates that he is not a Roman Catholic, because he can only do this under the supposition that non-Catholic religions and denominations have a right to exist and to preach their false teachings and recruit new adherents, which is, if not outright heresy, at the very least, a most grave and damnable error favoring heresy (see, for example, Pope Gregory XVI’s Encyclical Mirari Vos and Pope Pius IX’s Encyclical Quanta Cura).

In the second passage, Francis once more displays his much-appreciated candidness when he states explicitly: “I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism.” Yeah, we had a hunch he wasn’t about to start a new round of Crusades any time soon. This open admission on his part shows that, as we have pointed out before, Francis speaks out of both sides of his mouth, because he is also on the record saying that we must constantly “preach the Gospel” — obviously, then, he is either simply a liar, or to him the Gospel is a completely different thing from what it actually is. But either way you look at it, he is clearly relinquishing his first duty (supposing him to be the Pope for a minute), which is bringing people to the True Faith and thereby to salvation (cf. Mt 28:19-20). He is a heretic who helps the body but destroys the soul (cf. Mt 10:28).

The Modernist Jorge Bergoglio then continues: “I want people to find Jesus in their own community.” Well, isn’t that interesting — some time ago, Francis was saying you can’t find Christ outside the Church, something the usual neo-con apologists jumped on right away as a supposed reaffirmation by Francis of the dogma No Salvation Outside the Church.

Are you confused by Mr. Bergoglio? There’s a perfect explanation for this: He’s a Modernist, and Modernists love vagueness, contradiction, and ambiguity, whereas Catholics extol clarity, consistency, and certitude. Yet, this particular contradiction can actually be reconciled fairly easily when you realize that when Francis says “church”, he doesn’t necessarily mean “Catholic Church.” For him, all Protestant, Anglican, and Orthodox sects are also part of the church, as we pointed out in a post many months ago (see Francis says Christ not found outside the Church — What Does He Mean?). Once again, we have been proven right.

Francis stated furthermore: "There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those.” This statement is scandalous and noteworthy on two accounts:

(1) It flatly contradicts the directives given by Pope Pius XII in 1949, according to which not one iota of Catholic truth is allowed to be denied, minimized, or glossed over when discussing religious matters with Protestants; in addition, it contradicts Pope Pius XII’s teaching in 1944:

Even on the plea of promoting unity it is not allowed to dissemble one single dogma; for, as the Patriarch of Alexandria warns us, “although the desire of peace is a noble and excellent thing, yet we must not for its sake neglect the virtue of loyalty in Christ.” Consequently, the much desired return of erring sons to true and genuine unity in Christ will not be furthered by exclusive concentration on those doctrines which all, or most, communities glorying in the Christian name accept in common. The only successful method will be that which bases harmony and agreement among Christ's faithful ones upon all the truths, and the whole of the truths, which God has revealed.

(Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Orientalis Ecclesiae, n. 16; underlining added.)

(2) Doesn’t Francis’ assertion that they will never agree on “so many doctrines” run contrary to all the ecumenical efforts of the Vatican, which have doctrinal agreements and “unity” as their stated goal?

Clearly, we have a Modernist at work here, and one who loves to hear himself talk. All this confusion starts to make sense, though, when you realize that Mr. Bergoglio is not a Catholic. That’s the key to understanding it all. His mission is to confuse people, to spread error, and to destroy Catholicism under the guise of being “merciful” and “humble.”

Francis’ reaction after hearing that
billions of people think he’s a Catholic

Now that this latest “I don’t want to convert anyone” story is out, watch the professional Novus Ordo apologists scramble to “explain” what Francis “really” meant:

    “Fr.” Zuhlsdorf, after putting down his Kindle for a minute, will rush to tell you that we really can’t assume these quotes by Mr. Stiller are accurate and since he probably didn’t record Francis’ words, the whole thing can’t be taken seriously — and then “Fr. Z” will give you a link to click on so you can buy him something from his Amazon wishlist;
    Jimmy Akin, who has already bent over backwards “explaining” that when Francis said to Eugenio Scalfari, “I don’t want to convert you”, he really meant, “I do want to convert you”, will offer ‘9 things to know and share’ and tell you that Francis probably didn’t say “convert” but “proselytize”, or at least meant “proselytize”, and so that what he was really saying is that he doesn’t want to strong-arm any Evangelicals to become Catholics; or, in case you don’t fall for this, Akin will tell you that Francis is just cleverly employing a psychological trick: get people to open up and let their guard down by assuring them you won’t try to convert them, and then go ahead and try to convert them anyway;
    Mark Shea, after vociferously denouncing as self-righteous pharisees all who think they know more Catholic theology than Francis, will “explain” that Francis uses a different approach for making converts, one based on “mercy”, not dogma, one that traditionalist nincompoops obviously can’t understand;
    Michael Voris will, of course, ignore the story, hoping you won’t hear about it and just watch his videos instead;
    Update 12-JUL-14 22:13 GMT: The Rev. Dwight Longenecker weighs in with what amounts to a “who knows if this is really true” argument, though kudos to him for pointing out that you can’t respect a religion whose adherents think so little of it that they don’t want people to convert to it

Mark our words: If this story gets enough attention, the usual suspects will spring into action and “explain” it all for you, something they’ve had to do a lot of since March 2013. (Though some, Deo gratias, have finally given up.)

To provide further information and context for this news story, here are several highly interesting posts published by the one-of-a-kind Call Me Jorge blog, which you should not miss out on:

    The Evangelical Lunch — a Photo Gallery
    Evangelicals Meet with Francis: a Who’s Who
    Francis & Evangelicals Prepare for One-World Religion
    Luxury “Evangelist” Ken Copeland prays over Francis
    Francis and “Brother Bishop” Tony Palmer

Here is a video showing Francis receiving a “blessing” from a Protestant preacher at a charismatic-ecumenical gathering in 2006 in Buenos Aires. Not much has changed since then:

One final point: Notice how in previous times when Francis spoke out against “proselytism,” the Modernist apologists always told us that proselytism doesn’t mean converting but converting through dishonest or coercive means. Except this time, Francis said “I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals,” not, “I’m not interested in proselytizing.” Once again, we have been proven right in saying that when Francis says “proselytism,” he means converting people, as he made clear in August 2013, and which is what 99.99% of his listeners understand him to be saying anyway.

Not that “Pope” Benedict XVI was interested in converting Protestants, either:

    “Cardinal” Ratzinger told Lutheran NOT to convert to Catholicism
"I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

Offline Jehanne

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Francis: Im Not Interested in Converting Evangelicals to Catholicism
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2014, 06:14:46 PM »
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  • I am still a sede-doubtist.

    At worst, Francis' comments are heresy; at best, he is using subterfuge, but the truth is likely that he is a modernist and a heretic.  At a minimum we should resist him and tell that Pentecostal that, "Yes, we are definitively interested in you and everyone else, for that matter, converting to the One True Faith, which is Catholicism, if you are willing to do so."

    Offline poche

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    Francis: Im Not Interested in Converting Evangelicals to Catholicism
    « Reply #2 on: July 13, 2014, 11:07:54 PM »
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  • We live in a predominantly evangelical community. We have a program for conversion to the Catholic faith. We are happy to assist anyone who would like to know Jesus in our community.


    Offline Cantarella

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    Francis: Im Not Interested in Converting Evangelicals to Catholicism
    « Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 02:31:14 AM »
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  • Perhaps Pope Francis is a God sent blessing in disguise to see if Catholics around the world finally WAKE UP from their anesthetic slumber and RESIST the heresy of MODERNISM and its children (progressivism, liberalism, communism, etc, etc), which has infiltrated the world and the Church Herself.

    Catholics must WAKE UP, REACT, and be the SOLDIERS for CHRIST KING that we are called to be.

    We are named the Church Militant for a reason.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline trickster

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    Francis: Im Not Interested in Converting Evangelicals to Catholicism
    « Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 04:59:42 AM »
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  • I think if people interpret Francis in the context of his overall messaging they wil see that he is simply not adopting old ideas of conversion.  What he is saying is that  we need to trust all human beings and their conscience with God; it is between God and the person.

    Mother Theresa also said she does not convert people, she simply witnesses the kerygma - the joy of the gospel), she lives the Catholic faith and she understands that the Holy Spirit does the conversion.

    I am not sure what the objecttion to Pope Francis on this approach is...another example of his "out of the box" approach is to say publically "who is he" to judge gay people...but in saying that he is not changing the teaching of the church on gay people.  In fact he is bringing the other part of the church's teaching developed and guided by Paul VI.  

    Anyways, I look forward to your thoughts and understanding...

    Bruce Ferguson

    Offline Jehanne

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    Francis: Im Not Interested in Converting Evangelicals to Catholicism
    « Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 07:05:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: trickster
    I think if people interpret Francis in the context of his overall messaging they wil see that he is simply not adopting old ideas of conversion.

    I think that your "logic" (and, that of Francis) is just despicable.  At a minimum, we owe people the Truth, the Breath of the One and Triune God:

    Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

    "Outside the Church, no salvation".

    Such is the Breath of the omnipotent God, that apart from the merits of His One and Only Son, Jesus Christ, there can be no forgiveness of sins, original or mortal, graces which come to us soley through the Sacraments which Christ established here on Earth, whether in re or in voto.  Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is not a premise but a conclusion:

    1)  Salvation, eternal and everlasting life in the presence of the Beatific Vision, comes from Jesus Christ alone and the merits which He won for us, His Creation, and so, there is no salvation apart from Him and His Mystical Body.

    2)  The Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ, His Bride, are "one and the same thing."

    3)  There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

    We owe people the Truth, especially, heretics, schismatics, Jews, and pagans.  Now, what they do with that Truth and how they act upon it is for their consciences to decide, but as the old saying goes, "The road to Hell is paved with the best of intentions."


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