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Offline Ambrose

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Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
« on: April 17, 2014, 04:02:12 PM »
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    Pope Francis' Holy Thursday foot washing: Will traditional Catholics continue their outcry?

    By Nick Canedo
    April 17, 2014

    Last year, Pope Francis continued the ancient ritual of washing feet on Holy Thursday as Jesus did with his 12 disciples at the Last Supper. With Popes, they're almost always the feet of priests. But with Francis, he cleansed and kissed the feet of teenagers in a criminal detention center. Among the group were two women and two Muslims, which set off a firestorm that became the final straw for some Catholic traditionalists.

    In this photo provided by the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, Pope Francis washes the foot of an inmate at the juvenile detention center of Casal del Marmo, Rome, Thursday, March 28, 2013. Francis washed the feet of a dozen inmates at a juvenile detention center in a Holy Thursday ritual that he celebrated for years as archbishop and is continuing now that he is pope.
    L'Osservatore Romano via AP
     
    On this year's Holy Thursday, the pope will once again stray from traditional practice when he visits the Don Gnocchi Center, a home for the elderly and disabled in Rome. There, he will wash the feet of 12 residents, all lay people, for the Holy Week Ritual, including nine Italians, one Muslim from Libya, a young man from Cape Verde and an Ethiopian woman, Catholic News Service reports.

    Silvia Stefanoni, the Deputy CEO and Director of Policy and Programs at HelpAge International, told Vatican Radio the pope has shown a commitment to bring attention to those neglected by society, including the elderly and disabled. "It is giving a voice," Stefanoni said. "It's showing respect for their dignity."

    Francis' foot washing is just one many actions by the pope that has surprised the world since his election as 266th head of the Catholic Church. Others include Francis reaching out to engage atheists in a dialogue, criticizing the church's obsession with divisive social issues, including abortion and birth control, and urging Catholics not to judge gαy men and women.

    Canon lawyer Edward Peters said Francis' foot washing actions could hurt church law. "By disregarding his own law in this matter, Francis violates, of course, no divine directive," Peters wrote. "What he does do, I fear, is set a questionable example." Peters added that it would be better to change the rule rather than flout it.

    Francis choosing to wash the feet of women raised concerns he might permit women to be priests. However, the pope wrote in a 2011 book that women cannot accede to the priesthood because "the maximum of the priesthood is Jesus, a male." He added, "According to tradition, all that pertains to the priesthood must happen through man."

    Rita Ferrone, the author of several books about liturgy and a consultant to U.S. dioceses on liturgical matters, told Religion News Service the Holy Thursday foot washing debate "becomes yet another occasion for people who would like to see women excluded from the sanctuary." She added: "This is being used by those who wish to make a point about holy orders being reserved to men."

    When he was Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the future pope washed and kissed the feet of women in past ceremonies in Argentinian jails, hospitals and old people's homes, including pregnant mothers and AIDS patients.

    Ahead of this year's foot washing, Rev. John Zuhlsdorf, a traditionalist blogger popular with the Catholic right, addressed Madison, Wis., Catholic Bishop Robert Morlino's guidelines that gave priests the option of either using only men or not celebrating the ritual at all.

    "Those are the two options given BY THE CHURCH! The footwashing rite is already an option! The Church's law says that only men may be the recipients of this foot washing. Bishop Morlino's guidelines do nothing but reiterate the Church's laws, which bishops and priests are obliged to follow."

    Michael Gerson, of The Washington Post, thought Francis' actions last year provided inspiration for all faiths. "With due respect to Benedict's learning, Francis's symbolic act managed to more effectively communicate the essence of the Christian gospel," Gerson wrote.

    Jimmy Akin, of National Catholic Register, wrote that Catholics should take the time to understand the reasoning behind Francis' foot washing.

    I think we should understand it in the same light that explains the initial decision to celebrate this Mass in a youth prison: Pope Francis wants to reach out to the young people in the prison and bring them the light of Christ. He is taking the role of a servant and an evangelist. What he is doing hopefully will have a profound impact on the lives of these young people, hopefully setting them on the right path both in terms of civil law and in terms of their faith life. He's also, by this action, showing the world that he takes his role seriously as a servant of all people and an evangelist to all people.
    What do you think about Pope Francis again washing the feet of lay people, non-Catholics and women? Is it good or bad that he continues to break away from tradition? Share your thoughts in the comments.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Matthew

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 04:08:12 PM »
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  • One day, we will probably find out that he was not our Pope at all.
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    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 04:37:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    One day, we will probably find out that he was not our Pope at all.


    It seems to be the only answer.
    He shall not be mocked.

    Quote
    How long, O God, shall the enemy reproach: is the adversary to provoke thy name for ever?


    Ps 74:10

    Offline Sunbeam

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 06:20:21 PM »
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    Jimmy Akin, of National Catholic Register, wrote that Catholics should take the time to understand the reasoning behind Francis' foot washing.

    Rubbish!

    Catholics should take the time to understand the reasoning behind Jesus' foot washing.

    Offline Mama ChaCha

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 06:35:20 PM »
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  • I don't know of any reason why, but something about washing women's feet in particular seems wrong to me...am I just being old fashioned?  I really feel very strongly that washing a woman's feet is a bad thing and shouldn't be done.
    Matthew 6:34
    " Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof."


    Offline TKGS

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 08:02:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    One day, we will probably find out that he was not our Pope at all.


    Too late.  We already did.  It's just that many people refuse to admit it.  

    When Bergoglio speaks, no one hears the pope speaking.  That's why he makes so much news.  It's like that priest singing Hallelujah at the wedding.  They hear and, embarrassed, they laugh and wonder what is going on.  As Archbishop Lefebvre said, though about a VII Council docuмent, but seems to me to apply with equal force about Bergoglio and his cadre:

    Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre
    The voice of Christ, our Shepherd, we know.  This voice we do not know.  The clothing is that of the sheep.  The voice is not the voice of the shepherd, but perhaps that of the wolf.  (In I Accuse the Council)



    Offline poche

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 10:42:48 PM »
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  • When he was Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the future pope washed and kissed the feet of women in past ceremonies in Argentinian jails, hospitals and old people's homes, including pregnant mothers and AIDS patients.

    Ahead of this year's foot washing, Rev. John Zuhlsdorf, a traditionalist blogger popular with the Catholic right, addressed Madison, Wis., Catholic Bishop Robert Morlino's guidelines that gave priests the option of either using only men or not celebrating the ritual at all.

    "Those are the two options given BY THE CHURCH! The footwashing rite is already an option! The Church's law says that only men may be the recipients of this foot washing. Bishop Morlino's guidelines do nothing but reiterate the Church's laws, which bishops and priests are obliged to follow."

    From the code of Canon law;

    Can. 331 The bishop of the Roman Church, in whom continues the office given by the Lord uniquely to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, is the head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the pastor of the universal Church on earth. By virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely.

    Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains full and supreme power in the Church by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.

    §2. If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely and properly manifested but not that it is accepted by anyone.

    Can. 333 §1. By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only possesses power offer the universal Church but also obtains the primacy of ordinary power offer all particular churches and groups of them. Moreover, this primacy strengthens and protects the proper, ordinary, and immediate power which bishops possess in the particular churches entrusted to their care.

    §2. In fulfilling the office of supreme pastor of the Church, the Roman Pontiff is always joined in communion with the other bishops and with the universal Church. He nevertheless has the right, according to the needs of the Church, to determine the manner, whether personal or collegial, of exercising this office.

    §3. No appeal or recourse is permitted against a sentence or decree of the Roman Pontiff.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P16.HTM

    You can agree or disagree with what the Pope did but in this instance since he is the highest legislator in the Catholic Church he has full jurisdiction to follow or to disregard these rules as he sees fit. He is not breaking a rule in the sense that one of Morlino's priests would if they disregarded one of his rules.  

    Offline poche

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 10:47:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: Matthew
    One day, we will probably find out that he was not our Pope at all.


    Too late.  We already did.  It's just that many people refuse to admit it.  

    When Bergoglio speaks, no one hears the pope speaking.  That's why he makes so much news.  It's like that priest singing Hallelujah at the wedding.  They hear and, embarrassed, they laugh and wonder what is going on.  As Archbishop Lefebvre said, though about a VII Council docuмent, but seems to me to apply with equal force about Bergoglio and his cadre:

    Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre
    The voice of Christ, our Shepherd, we know.  This voice we do not know.  The clothing is that of the sheep.  The voice is not the voice of the shepherd, but perhaps that of the wolf.  (In I Accuse the Council)



    If no one hears him speaking, why is he making headlines?


    Offline Mama ChaCha

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 12:45:05 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: Matthew
    One day, we will probably find out that he was not our Pope at all.


    Too late.  We already did.  It's just that many people refuse to admit it.  

    When Bergoglio speaks, no one hears the pope speaking.  That's why he makes so much news.  It's like that priest singing Hallelujah at the wedding.  They hear and, embarrassed, they laugh and wonder what is going on.  As Archbishop Lefebvre said, though about a VII Council docuмent, but seems to me to apply with equal force about Bergoglio and his cadre:

    Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre
    The voice of Christ, our Shepherd, we know.  This voice we do not know.  The clothing is that of the sheep.  The voice is not the voice of the shepherd, but perhaps that of the wolf.  (In I Accuse the Council)



    If no one hears him speaking, why is he making headlines?


    Simple. Our protestant friends are shocked to discover that they are more catholic than the pope!! I've been asked a lot recently if he is perhaps suffering with Alzheimer's or some other degenerative mental condition...by a group of evangelical Methodists no less. It's tough being the only Catholic around here in these times. I have no answer to offer them. What can I say?
    Matthew 6:34
    " Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof."

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 01:38:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mama ChaCha
    I don't know of any reason why, but something about washing women's feet in particular seems wrong to me...am I just being old fashioned?  I really feel very strongly that washing a woman's feet is a bad thing and shouldn't be done.

    But if I was a woman, I'd like someone to wash MY feet for me.  I think.   :sign-surrender:


    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 01:43:29 AM »
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  • .

    Touchdown for Sunbeam!


    Quote from: Sunbeam
    Quote
    Jimmy Akin, of National Catholic Register, wrote that Catholics should take the time to understand the reasoning behind Francis' foot washing.

    Rubbish!

    Catholics should take the time to understand the reasoning behind Jesus' foot washing.



    Three-pointer for Sunbeam!  Hole-in-one!  

    G-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OALLLLL! (For Soccer fans).


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline TKGS

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 06:03:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: Matthew
    One day, we will probably find out that he was not our Pope at all.


    Too late.  We already did.  It's just that many people refuse to admit it.  

    When Bergoglio speaks, no one hears the pope speaking.  That's why he makes so much news.  It's like that priest singing Hallelujah at the wedding.  They hear and, embarrassed, they laugh and wonder what is going on.  As Archbishop Lefebvre said, though about a VII Council docuмent, but seems to me to apply with equal force about Bergoglio and his cadre:

    Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre
    The voice of Christ, our Shepherd, we know.  This voice we do not know.  The clothing is that of the sheep.  The voice is not the voice of the shepherd, but perhaps that of the wolf.  (In I Accuse the Council)



    If no one hears him speaking, why is he making headlines?


    Surely poche, you are smarter that this.  You don't appear in your posts to be stupid, yet you ask this question.

    No one hears the pope speaking.  No one listens to what he says and hears him as he hears Christ.  He makes headlines because his words are so unexpected from the Vicar of Christ that the enemies of Christ want him published far and wide and the headlines are ones of praise.

    Now, if he were to speak as a pope, he may make headlines, but they would be headlines of scorn and derision.

    Offline poche

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 10:36:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: poche
    Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: Matthew
    One day, we will probably find out that he was not our Pope at all.


    Too late.  We already did.  It's just that many people refuse to admit it.  

    When Bergoglio speaks, no one hears the pope speaking.  That's why he makes so much news.  It's like that priest singing Hallelujah at the wedding.  They hear and, embarrassed, they laugh and wonder what is going on.  As Archbishop Lefebvre said, though about a VII Council docuмent, but seems to me to apply with equal force about Bergoglio and his cadre:

    Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre
    The voice of Christ, our Shepherd, we know.  This voice we do not know.  The clothing is that of the sheep.  The voice is not the voice of the shepherd, but perhaps that of the wolf.  (In I Accuse the Council)



    If no one hears him speaking, why is he making headlines?


    Surely poche, you are smarter that this.  You don't appear in your posts to be stupid, yet you ask this question.

    No one hears the pope speaking.  No one listens to what he says and hears him as he hears Christ.  He makes headlines because his words are so unexpected from the Vicar of Christ that the enemies of Christ want him published far and wide and the headlines are ones of praise.

    Now, if he were to speak as a pope, he may make headlines, but they would be headlines of scorn and derision.

    It was teh same way with Pope Paul VI. When he got started he made a lot of the "politically correct" people happy. He was their hero until he wrote Humanae Vitae and said that artificial contraception was still a sin. Then they all turned on him.

    Offline VinnyF

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #13 on: April 22, 2014, 11:49:12 AM »
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  • He twists the meaning of the gospel and mocks Christ's example.  Christ used this as a teaching moment to show the apostles that they need to be humble if they are to follow and carry on for him.  The last thing Francis intends is to teach humility but rather to exalt teenage prisoners.

    Christ could have easily washed Mary Magdalen's feet or gone out into the street and washed the feet of lepers.  But it had nothing whatsoever to do with that.  This Pope obviously knows that and this makes the hijacking of the scripture that much more despicable.

    Offline ultrarigorist

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    Francis Holy Thursday Foot Washing Scandal 2014
    « Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 03:56:21 PM »
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  • The democratization of apostleship: A gift of Bugnini's which has ever yielded nothing but weird if not malodorous fruit, and ever since its inception has been the stock of untoward and frequently blasphemous spectacles.

    I'm sure the OP will now have to jump in to "adjust my perception". Sorry Ambrose, the thing speaks for itself. You ain't got enough lipstick for this little piggie.