Author Topic: Availability of both species  (Read 2500 times)

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Offline Sigismund

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Availability of both species
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2015, 05:04:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    No Traditional Mass ever has or ever will give communion under both species.   If it was given, it would no longer be a Traditional Mass.


    No traditional Latin rite Mass.

    Communion under both Species is the normal practice in the Eastern rites.  Trent says that it is heresy to maintain that both Species are necessary, or that one does not receive the Body and Blood of the Lord in one Species.  It doesn't say that there is anything wrong with both Species essentially.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline snowball

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    « Reply #16 on: August 30, 2015, 10:17:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    Quote from: Marlelar
    No Traditional Mass ever has or ever will give communion under both species.   If it was given, it would no longer be a Traditional Mass.


    No traditional Latin rite Mass.

    Communion under both Species is the normal practice in the Eastern rites.  Trent says that it is heresy to maintain that both Species are necessary, or that one does not receive the Body and Blood of the Lord in one Species.  It doesn't say that there is anything wrong with both Species essentially.  


    The Church could never maintain that there is anything wrong with
    sharing the Body and Blood under both species. To do so would
    contradict the Words and actions of Our Lord. It's rather unsettling
    to see that merely saying such in a prior post has received 3
    thumbs down.

    Unleavened bread did not even appear in the Latin Rite
    until the 9th century. Before that, the breaking of bread was literally the
    breaking of leavened bread baked in homes. The wafer-thin hosts
    confected by monks and nuns did not appear until the 12th century.
    (paraphrased from The Mass: Its Rituals, Roots and Relevance in Our Lives,
    Joan Carter McHugh, pp. 223-224).
    The practice of giving Holy Communion only in the form of bread became
    dominant in the Western church of the 13th century. Only the celebrant
    communicated from the chalice, though this custom was contrary to the
    practice of earlier centuries. (paraphrased, ibid. pp. 230-231)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #17 on: August 30, 2015, 11:00:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Being able to receive under both Species is one of the privileges of the priesthood.


    Except that it's always been done in the Eastern Rites.

    Quote
    In fact, if a young man is asked by his bishop, "Why do you want to be a priest" and he answers, "I want to be able to receive the Blood of Christ as well at Holy Communion" it is to be considered a legitimate motivation for aspiring to the priesthood.


    That's actually a (materially) heretical response, implying that one does not receive the Blood of Christ at Holy Communion if only communicating under a single species.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #18 on: August 30, 2015, 11:03:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: snowball
    Quote from: Marlelar
    No Traditional Mass ever has or ever will give communion under both species.   If it was given, it would no longer be a Traditional Mass.


    has ever ? will never ? are we certain of that ?

    there is no formal prohibition of both species.


    What the Church condemned was not communication under both species but the doctrine that one did not fully receive Holy Communion if communicating under one -- in that this entailed false doctrine regarding the Blessed Sacrament.

    Offline Pelly

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    « Reply #19 on: August 30, 2015, 03:17:10 PM »
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  • Can the Chalice be allowed for health reasons which are more common than in the 1910s?


    Offline Marlelar

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    « Reply #20 on: August 30, 2015, 05:07:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: snowball
    Quote from: Marlelar
    No Traditional Mass ever has or ever will give communion under both species.   If it was given, it would no longer be a Traditional Mass.


    has ever ? will never ? are we certain of that ?

    there is no formal prohibition of both species.


    What the Church condemned was not communication under both species but the doctrine that one did not fully receive Holy Communion if communicating under one -- in that this entailed false doctrine regarding the Blessed Sacrament.


    I never said reception of both condemned.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #21 on: August 30, 2015, 05:22:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: snowball
    Quote from: Marlelar
    No Traditional Mass ever has or ever will give communion under both species.   If it was given, it would no longer be a Traditional Mass.


    has ever ? will never ? are we certain of that ?

    there is no formal prohibition of both species.


    What the Church condemned was not communication under both species but the doctrine that one did not fully receive Holy Communion if communicating under one -- in that this entailed false doctrine regarding the Blessed Sacrament.


    I never said reception of both condemned.


    And I never said you said that.  I was responding to snowball's question.

    Offline clare

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    Availability of both species
    « Reply #22 on: August 31, 2015, 02:05:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pelly
    Can the Chalice be allowed for health reasons which are more common than in the 1910s?

    Yes, using a kind of straw (called a fistula - be careful googling images though, it's also the name of a medical condition) or a spoon:



    Offline snowball

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    « Reply #23 on: August 31, 2015, 11:28:09 AM »
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  • Communion for the laity was under both species most commonly
    until the 13th century.. that is in the Latin Rite.


    Offline Dolores

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    « Reply #24 on: August 31, 2015, 12:40:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    No Traditional Mass ever has or ever will give communion under both species.   If it was given, it would no longer be a Traditional Mass.


    I attended Mass in Pennsylvania once at an SSPX chapel, and at the very end of Communion, a father and young daughter approached the rail.  The father received normally, and then walked up to the altar, where he retrieved a very small gold chalice, which I assume had a small amount of the Precious Blood in it.  He walked down, held it to the young girl's mouth, and she drank it.  I've always assumed she had some kind of medical condition that prohibited reception of the Precious Body, so the priest allows her to received the Precious Blood in this fashion.

    Offline Dolores

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    « Reply #25 on: August 31, 2015, 12:49:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Being able to receive under both Species is one of the privileges of the priesthood.


    Sorry, Matthew, but as others have pointed out, this simply cannot be correct.  Reception under both forms by the laity has always occurred in the East, and also occurred in the West until the 12th Century or so.  It may have come to be regarded, by some, as a privilege of the priesthood, but this can, at best, only be a custom, and not actual Church teaching on the Eucharist.


    Offline confederate catholic

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    « Reply #26 on: August 31, 2015, 03:05:46 PM »
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  • or by intinction



    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline poche

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    « Reply #27 on: September 01, 2015, 10:42:58 PM »
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  • Prior to the Council of Trent it was very common for both species to be offered for Communion. However because of teh heresy of Jan Hus which stated that it was necessary to receive both species during mass for the CCommunion to be valid it was necessary for this error to be repudiated and in order to avoid confussion it was decreed that only one species would be offered at mass for the faithful.
    In the Byzantine rite both species are offered and the faithful receive Holy Communion with a spoon.

     

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