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Offline Geremia

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Pope Francis forbids priests to say Mass Lefebvrians

The followers of the ultra conservative French bishop excommunicated, are now being targeted by Bergoglio. Through one of his loyalists has forbidden them to celebrate Mass and administer the sacraments. And whoever follows them in danger of excommunication

Orazio La Rocca
October 27, 2014

Papa Francesco vieta di dire messa ai preti lefebvriani

New "sticks" of Pope Francis, the pastor of mercy and forgiveness, but not all. After the severe beatings inflicted on the pedophile priests, were now being targeted - albeit indirect metaphorical beatings - are the priests Lefebvrist as one of the bishops closer and heard by Bergoglio, Bishop Marcello Semeraro, banned from celebrating Mass and give the sacraments (baptisms, first communions, confirmations, weddings ...) as if they were incardinated in the universal Catholic Church. A similar veto was imposed to the Catholic faithful who, perhaps in good faith, attending functions and receive the sacraments from priests themselves Lefebvrians, running the risk - warns the bishop - in the situation of being automatically excommunicated.

The firm halt was made ​​with the publication of an ad hoc decree (Notification) signed by Monsignor Semeraro, well-known expert in ecclesialogia theologian, bishop of Albano (one of the suburban dioceses Roman), President of the New Editorial Italian, the company that publishes the newspaper Catholic Future, but mainly secretary of the commission of cardinals created by Pope C9 with the task of studying and when to give back to the bodies of the Catholic Church from the Vatican Curia, a structural and organizational setting more in keeping with the pastoral needs of the company .

Bishop Semeraro has sent its Notification to the Society of St. Pius X which has its headquarters in the diocese of Albano, the 'traditionalist Lefebvrian most important institution in our country founded in the seventies by rebel bishop Marcel Lefebvre, first of priestly suspended for failing to the conciliar renewal (publicly challenged the Vatican celebrating the Latin Mass when it was forbidden) and then excommunicated the late 80s along with 4 other bishops illicitly consecrated by him without the consent of the Pope.

That same fraternity jumped last year the attention of the news coverage for celebrating, amid protests by thousands of citizens, at the funeral nαzι Erich Priebke, one of those responsible for the massacre of the Fosse Ardeatine. A gesture seen as a new challenge to the Catholic Church authorities as the Vicariate of Rome - with the consent of the Vatican Curia - forbade the funeral services of the former nαzι, being dead without even the slightest reconsideration of sull'eccidio Ardeatine.

In Notification - published in the Catholic newspaper Future - Semeraro explains to intervene to "numerous requests for clarification about the celebration of the sacraments at the Society of St. Pius X" that "is not an institution (or the parish, or organization, or movement) of Catholic Church. " Although - says the bishop - Benedict XVI, "graciously accepting the demands of the Prior General of the Society," January 21, 2009 revoked the excommunication of four bishops Lefebvrians, but specify in the letter to the bishops in June 2009 that the same fraternity "not has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers, even if they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty, not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. " Provisions evidently disregarded by Lefebvrians - about 15 thousand followers in Italy - who continued to celebrate the sacraments and impart as if they were incardinated into the ecclesial bodies recognized by the CEI (Italian Episcopal Conference).

Hence the firm ban Semeraro in which the bishop reminds the faithful Catholics who "can not attend Mass or request and receive the sacraments from and to the Fraternity." Pena, automatic excommunication. And "sorry" that the first victims of this situation are those children and young people (and even infants) that could illegitimate receive the sacraments (baptisms, first communions and confirmations) "in contrast" with the pastoral guidelines of the Italian Catholic Church.

And 'well, then, that the priests Lefebvrians not continue to present themselves in public as members of the clergy of the Italian Church - suggests the secretary of the Commission of Cardinals C9 - assuming roles and attitudes offenses in the long run will affect the already difficult negotiations in progress between the Vatican and the leaders of the Society for the restoration of any future reports on the ecclesial and total obedience to the Pope.
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Offline Matthew

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Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 11:57:11 AM »
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  • Do we have any Italian speakers in the house?


    Papa Francesco vieta di dire messa ai preti lefebvriani
    I seguaci dell'ultra tradizionalista vescovo francese, già scomunicato, ora sono nel mirino di Bergoglio. Che attraverso uno dei suoi fedelissimi ha vietato loro di celebrare messa e amministrare i sacramenti. E chi li segue rischia la scomunica

    DI ORAZIO LA ROCCA
    27 ottobre 2014

    Papa Francesco vieta di dire messa ai preti lefebvriani

    Nuove “bastonate” di papa Francesco, il pastore della misericordia e del perdono, ma non solo. Dopo le severe botte inferte ai preti pedofili, ora ad essere stati presi di mira – sebbene con indirette metaforiche bastonature - sono i sacerdoti lefebvriani ai quali uno dei vescovi più vicini e più ascoltati da Bergoglio, monsignor Marcello Semeraro, ha vietato di celebrare Messe e impartire sacramenti (battesimi, prime comunioni, cresime, matrimoni...) come se fossero incardinati nella Chiesa cattolica universale. Analogo veto è stato imposto ai fedeli cattolici che, magari in buona fede, assistono alle celebrazioni e ricevono i sacramenti dagli stessi sacerdoti lefebvriani, correndo il rischio – ammonisce il presule – di trovarsi automaticamente nella situazione di scomunicati.

    Il fermo altolà è stato formulato con la pubblicazione di un decreto ad hoc (Notificazione) firmato da monsignor Semeraro, noto teologo esperto in ecclesialogia, vescovo di Albano (una delle diocesi suburbicarie romane), presidente della Nuova Editoriale Italiana, la società editrice del quotidiano cattolico Avvenire, ma principalmente segretario della commissione cardinalizia C9 istituita dal pontefice col compito di studiare tempi e modi per ridare agli organismi della Chiesa cattolica, a partire dalla Curia vaticana, una impostazione strutturale ed organizzativa più in sintonia con le esigenze pastorali dell'attuale società.

    Monsignor Semeraro ha inviato la sua Notificazione alla Fraternità S.Pio X che ha sede proprio nella sua diocesi di Albano, l' istituzione tradizionalista lefebvriana più importante del nostro Paese fondata negli anni Settanta dal vescovo ribelle Marcel Lefebvre, prima sospeso a divinis per aver disatteso al rinnovamento conciliare (sfidò pubblicamente il Vaticano celebrando la Messa in latino quando era proibito) e poi scomunicato alla fine degli anni 80 insieme ad altri 4 vescovi da lui illecitamente consacrati senza l'assenso del Papa.

    Quella stessa Fraternità balzata lo scorso anno all'attenzione delle cronache giornalistiche per aver celebrato, tra le proteste di migliaia di cittadini, i funerali al nαzιsta Erich Priebke, uno dei responsabili dell'eccidio delle Fosse Ardeatine. Un gesto letto come una nuova sfida alle autorità ecclesiastiche cattoliche in quanto il Vicariato di Roma – con l'assenso della Curia vaticana – vietò le celebrazioni funebri dell'ex gerarca nαzιsta, essendo morto senza un pur minimo ripensamento sull'eccidio delle Fosse Ardeatine.

    Nella Notificazione – pubblicata sul quotidiano cattolico Avvenire – Semeraro spiega di intervenire per “le numerose richieste di chiarimento circa la celebrazione dei sacramenti presso la Fraternità S.Pio X” che “non è una istituzione (né parrocchia, né associazione, né movimento) della Chiesa cattolica”. Anche se – puntualizza il vescovo – Benedetto XVI, “accogliendo benignamente le richieste del priore generale della Fraternità”, il 21 gennaio 2009 ha revocato le scomuniche ai quattro vescovi lefebvriani, specificando però nella lettera ai vescovi del giugno 2009 che la stessa Fraternità “non ha alcuno stato canonico nella Chiesa e i suoi ministri, anche se sono stati liberati dalla punizione ecclesiastica, non esercitano in modo legittimo alcun ministero nella Chiesa”. Disposizioni evidentemente disattese dai lefebvriani – circa 15 mila seguaci in Italia - che hanno continuato a celebrare e impartire sacramenti come se fossero organismi incardinati nell'ordinamento ecclesiale riconosciuto dalla Cei (Conferenza episcopale italiana).

    Da qui il fermo divieto di Semeraro nel quale il vescovo ricorda ai fedeli cattolici che “non possono partecipare alla Messa, né richiedere e ricevere sacramenti dalla e nella Fraternità”. Pena, scomunica automatica. E che “spiace” che le prime vittime di una tale situazione siano quei bambini e giovani (ma anche neonati) che potrebbero ricevere sacramenti illegittimi (battesimi, prime comunioni e Cresime) “in contrasto” con gli orientamenti pastorali della Chiesa cattolica italiana.

    E' bene, dunque, che i sacerdoti lefebvriani non continuino a presentarsi in pubblico come membri del clero della Chiesa italiana – fa capire il segretario della Commissione cardinalizia C9 -, assumendo ruoli ed atteggiamenti illeciti che alla lunga potranno compromettere le già difficili trattative in corso tra il Vaticano e i capi della Fraternità per il ripristino di eventuali futuri rapporti sul piano ecclesiale e in totale obbedienza al Papa.  

    http://espresso.repubblica.it/attualita/2014/10/27/news/papa-francesco-vieta-di-dire-messa-ai-preti-lefebvriani-1.185655
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    Offline Matthew

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 12:31:53 PM »
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  • Right off the bat, I see the injustice of them calling Abp. Lefebvre "excommunicated" even though they "lifted" the "excommunications" of the 4 bishops he consecrated.

    Many on CathInfo and elsewhere noted this glaring omission at the time, and I'm pointing it out again.

    Why did they leave +Lefebvre "excommunicated" in the first place?

    "Success of the Rosary Crusade" my butt.

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    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 12:40:04 PM »
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  • +AMDG+

    Well, now Bp. Fellay will have to reconcile with Rome OR ELSE! It is just the charitable thing to do for the sake of the faithful. Are you all really buying this performance extraordinaire?  Will the SSPX stand their ground?

    Offline ultrarigorist

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 12:46:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Why did they leave +Lefebvre "excommunicated" in the first place?

    "Success of the Rosary Crusade" my butt.


    You've just answered your own question.This is the reason he was left "excommunicated".



    Offline Geremia

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 01:14:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Do we have any Italian speakers in the house?
    Here's my translation of the important passage:
    Da qui il fermo divieto di Semeraro nel quale il vescovo ricorda ai fedeli cattolici che “non possono partecipare alla Messa, né richiedere e ricevere sacramenti dalla e nella Fraternità”. Pena, scomunica automatica.
    Hence, Semeraro's firm ban in which he reminds the Catholic faithful that "they cannot participate in the Mass, nor ask and receive sacraments from and in the Fraternity." The penalty: automatic excommunication.


    Semeraro is a close collaborator to Bergoglio, and he sent his letter to the SSPX.
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    Offline Elizabeth

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 01:17:00 PM »
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  •  The veiled accusation of being nαzι sympathisers was a nice touch, Semeraro.

    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 02:22:15 PM »
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  • Here are some interesting quotes contra the SSPX and most especially the resistance which prides itself in recognizing the Holy See and at the same time be proud of their excommunication. Once again, I emphasize they are proud of it DESPITE recognizing them as lawful, licit authorities. These denzinger dogmatic decrees are earth shattering to that position. I post them since the original post of Geremia goes over the particular topic of excommunication so I thought it would be good to go over some basic ecclesiological principles. This is even worse by those who hold that the new Rites are invalid, and hold that position, because Trent very clearly teaches and anathematizes against those who hold that the approved Rites of the Church are incentives to impiety.

    The recent mass (see here) Christ the King feast that was celebrated by the SSPX in that Cathedral owned by the Conciliar Church, shows the sort of path and errors that it leads to. For why would you want to celebrate in the Churches of schismatics, who as their own founder would say, that those who in so far as they participate in that schismatic church, are outside of the Church. Ergo, they stand self-condemned those who further the destruction of the Church. Now Destruction of the Church can be done in several ways, similar to how we can participate in the sin of someone else in nine different ways. The worst way in my opinion, is through deception. For conservatives are able to detect explicit denials of the faith, but to pretend to be orthodox, while being a ravenous wolf is the worst of all combinations.

    Commentary in color:

    Quote

    Council of Constance, 1414-1418 209
    13. Those who cease to preach or to hear the word of God because of 593
    the excommunication of men, are themselves excommunicated
    , and in the
    judgment of God they will be considered traitors of Christ. Condemned

    610 30. The excommunication of the pope or of any prelate whatsoever
    is not to be feared, because it is the censure of the Antichrist.
    Council of Constance, 1414-1418 213 Condemned. This is of course something that was claimed by +Lefebvre as he called Wojtyla an anti-Christ and decried his excommunication as such. Now someone might claim I am taking out of context, this is not true. The men who were originally anathematized with this censure, recognized the authority of the Church, its just they accused the Church as capable of erring. Does this line of reasoning sound familiar?

    17. Priests of Christ, living according to His law and having a knowl- 643
    edge of Scripture and a desire to instruct the people, ought to preach
    without the impediment of a pretended excommunication.
    But if the
    pope or some other prelate orders a priest so disposed not to preach, the
    subject is not obliged to obey.
     Condemned

    18. Anyone who approaches the priesthood receives the duty of a 644
    preacher by command, and that command he must execute, without the
    impediment of a pretended excommunication. Condemned

    646 20. If the pope is wicked and especially if he is foreknown, than as
    Judas, the Apostle, he is of the devil, a thief, and a son of perdition, and
    he is not the head of the holy militant Church, since he is not a member
    of it. Condemned. This one is interesting because it refutes the position that the resistance attempts to argue that we somehow argue, that these popes are just bad, or wicked popes. As can be seen, this shows clearly that there is a difference between heresy, and peccability. The condemned proposition is that the peccability of the Pope somehow affects his membership in the Church. This one is not directly, but implicitly connected to the R&R position.

    764 24. Christians must be taught to cherish excommunications rather than
    to fear them. Condemned. The Resistance boldly makes these sorts of claims for the excommunications of the lawful and licit authorities in the Church. They are of course null and void, since we already know they have 0 authority over us, because by their acts, words and deeds show to be apostates.

    768 28. If the pope with a great part of the Church thought so and so,
    he would not err; still it is not a sin or heresy to think the contrary,
    especially in a matter not necessary for salvation
    , until one alternative is
    condemned and another approved by a general Council. Condemned. This is I think out of all the given quotes, is the most damning. For this is the root tenet of the resistance position to lawful authority, and the Roman Pontiff. It looks like if this was word for word, a +Williamson comment.

    Contra Waldensians: 434 Because some indeed "under the pretext of piety, denying his power"(according to what the Apostle says) [II Tim. 3:5], assume to themselves the authority of preaching, when the same Apostle says: "How . . . shall they preach, unless they are sent?" [Rom. 10:15], let all who, being
    prohibited or not sent, without having received authority from the
    Apostolic See, or from the Catholic bishop of the place, shall presume
    publicly or privately to usurp the duty of preaching 2 be marked by the
    bond of excommunication; and unless they recover their senses, the
    sooner the better, let them be punished with another fitting penalty.
    Condemned. This is why its important to recognize the difference, that we cannot argue that they are authorities, for once we do we fall under the anathemas of the Church on the said propositions. Epikea cannot apply if you have lawful authorities whereby they will give you the licitness to operate, as is the Society of Saint Vincent Ferrer, also FSSP, Redemptorist, Campos etc... However, the traditionalist intuitively understands that we cannnot under any circuмstance put ourselves under them because indeed these men are false shepherds and because of that we refuse to submit to unlawful heretical superiors.
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    Offline Jehanne

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 03:16:54 PM »
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  • Franics wants to move his fag-loving agenda into high-gear (perhaps, before he is dead), and the SSPX are in the way, aren't they?!

    Quote
    If we are morally certain that Francis is a heretic, are we still obligated to obey him?


    "No," is my answer.  But, as the Pope (real or imaged) is judged by the Triune God alone, it seems that the R&R position is completely legitimate, as well as the sedevacantist positions!  I guess either one depends on one's own conscience, to a mortal certitude at least.

    Offline Mabel

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 03:23:07 PM »
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  • Europe first, while they subdue the US?

    Offline Ambrose

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 04:37:06 PM »
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  • Francis is obviously looking to change the status quo, that his predecessors had maintained since the 1970's.

    It seems to me that he is planning on turning up the heat on the SSPX, and this local diocesan move with his tacit approval is his first shot.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Geremia

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 02:42:11 PM »
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  • Rorate has a translation of Francis's advisor Semararo's letter:
    Quote from: Semararo

        Suburbicarian Diocese of Albano

        NOTIFICATION TO PASTORS [PARISH PRIESTS]
        ON THE "SOCIETY OF SAINT PIUS X"



        In the past few weeks, requests of clarification have reached the Diocesan Chancery regarding the celebration of Sacraments at the "Society of Saint Pius X" of Albano Laziale.

        Regarding it, it is right and proper to point out that the above-mentioned "Society" is not an institution (neither parish, nor association) of the Catholic Church.

        This applies even after the decree of the Congregation for Bishops of January 21, 2009, by which the Holy Father Benedict XVI, reaching out in good will in response to reiterated requests by the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, revoked the excommunication in which the four Prelated had incurred since June 30, 1988.

        This was highlighted by Benedict XVI with his Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church of March 10, 2009: "the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church." (in AAS CI [2009], n. 4, p. 272). The same Benedict XVI, in the following Letter m. p. Ecclesiae Unitatem, of July 2, 2009, added: "the remission of the excommunication was a measure taken in the context of ecclesiastical discipline to free the individuals from the burden of conscience constituted by the most serious of ecclesiastical penalties. However, the doctrinal questions obviously remain and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry." (in AAS CI [2009], p. 710-711).

        As a consequence of the above, it is right and proper to restate what had been formulated in the Pastoral Note on the Society of Saint Pius X of [former bishop of Albano] Dante Bernini, in which it can be read:

        The Catholic faithful cannot participate at Mass, neither request and/or receive Sacraments from or in the Society. Acting otherwise would mean to break communion with the Catholic Church.

        Therefore, any Catholic faithful who requests and receives Sacraments in the Society of Saint Pius X, will place himself de facto in the condition of no longer being in communion with the Catholic Church. A readmission to the Catholic Church must be preceded by an adequate personal path of reconciliation, according to the ecclesiastical discipline established by the Bishop.

        It is sincerely saddening that such options [measures], particularly when in reference to the Christian Initiation of Children and Adolescents, be in constrast with the pastoral orientations of the Italian Church and, consequently, with the choices of the Diocese of Albano, where formative paths for the growth and maturation of the life of faith are favored.

        To the Parish priests, the duty of providing adequate information to the faithful.

        From the Albano Chancery, October 14, 2014, Prot. 235/14.


        + Marcello Semeraro, Bishop.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #12 on: October 29, 2014, 05:08:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Rorate has a translation of Francis's advisor Semararo's letter:
    Quote from: Semararo

        Suburbicarian Diocese of Albano

        NOTIFICATION TO PASTORS [PARISH PRIESTS]
        ON THE "SOCIETY OF SAINT PIUS X"



        In the past few weeks, requests of clarification have reached the Diocesan Chancery regarding the celebration of Sacraments at the "Society of Saint Pius X" of Albano Laziale.

        Regarding it, it is right and proper to point out that the above-mentioned "Society" is not an institution (neither parish, nor association) of the Catholic Church.

        This applies even after the decree of the Congregation for Bishops of January 21, 2009, by which the Holy Father Benedict XVI, reaching out in good will in response to reiterated requests by the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, revoked the excommunication in which the four Prelated had incurred since June 30, 1988.

        This was highlighted by Benedict XVI with his Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church of March 10, 2009: "the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church." (in AAS CI [2009], n. 4, p. 272). The same Benedict XVI, in the following Letter m. p. Ecclesiae Unitatem, of July 2, 2009, added: "the remission of the excommunication was a measure taken in the context of ecclesiastical discipline to free the individuals from the burden of conscience constituted by the most serious of ecclesiastical penalties. However, the doctrinal questions obviously remain and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry." (in AAS CI [2009], p. 710-711).

        As a consequence of the above, it is right and proper to restate what had been formulated in the Pastoral Note on the Society of Saint Pius X of [former bishop of Albano] Dante Bernini, in which it can be read:

        The Catholic faithful cannot participate at Mass, neither request and/or receive Sacraments from or in the Society. Acting otherwise would mean to break communion with the Catholic Church.

        Therefore, any Catholic faithful who requests and receives Sacraments in the Society of Saint Pius X, will place himself de facto in the condition of no longer being in communion with the Catholic Church. A readmission to the Catholic Church must be preceded by an adequate personal path of reconciliation, according to the ecclesiastical discipline established by the Bishop.

        It is sincerely saddening that such options [measures], particularly when in reference to the Christian Initiation of Children and Adolescents, be in constrast with the pastoral orientations of the Italian Church and, consequently, with the choices of the Diocese of Albano, where formative paths for the growth and maturation of the life of faith are favored.

        To the Parish priests, the duty of providing adequate information to the faithful.

        From the Albano Chancery, October 14, 2014, Prot. 235/14.


        + Marcello Semeraro, Bishop.


    Is this basically saying that nothing is different than what Benedict XVI stated?  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline poche

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    « Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 10:45:24 PM »
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  • Is this Bishop Semeraro or Pope Francis?

    Offline Disputaciones

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    Francis forbids SSPX priests to say Mass (quick Google translation)
    « Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 11:02:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    ...the Pope (real or imaged) is judged by the Triune God alone...


    And are you capable of explaining just what exactly this "judging" means and entails, backing it up with Church teaching?