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Author Topic: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ  (Read 22403 times)

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Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2019, 05:42:09 PM »

You are free to spew your apologia until The Last Day.


I am not "distracted" by this. I am well aware of Jorge's numerous other problems. Get the memo: http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html


At the moment, yes, I am focused on your increasingly rabbinical efforts at exculpating "Jesus became the devil."


That you consider "Jesus became the devil" a sound mediation testifies against your sensus Catholicus.


Are you a marrano?

Hot air.
No, I am not a marrano.  I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches and proclaims to be revealed by God.

If you have run out of reasoned arguments and are just making personal attacks, then I am done with this discussion.

Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2019, 05:59:45 PM »

He said "Jesus became a devil" using the exact wording that he used to say "Jesus became sin," meaning it the same way. Whether one translates it as "sin" or "sin offering" it refers to the expiation of our sins on the Cross by taking them upon Himself.  "Jesus became sin (offering)" is a traditional, orthodox teaching and does not mean that Our Lord ever sinned.  It does not contradict the fact of his sinlessness.

Obviously "Jesus became the devil" seems wrong when taken in isolation, but this was a basically sound meditation taken as a whole.  It is unfortunate that this is distracting you from more serious problems in the papacy.
This is pure rubbish! Make all of the excuses you want, delude yourself to your heart’s content. This is not charity this is delusional or willful ignorance.


Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2019, 06:01:29 PM »
For the record, I do consider this unacceptable.  I would put it in my Top Ten Infuriating Quotes list.
Unacceptable, infuriating? How about heretical? Is what he said heretical, Jaynek?

Offline Mark 79

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Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #118 on: October 12, 2019, 06:15:43 PM »
I did already say that I thought this was the more likely theory for the origin of Yeshu.  But it is a big leap to go from this being the origin of the word to saying all Jews are aware of it and intend the word as an insult when they use it.

My view is not coming a theological position, but from studying linguistics as an undergrad.  It is very common for people to speak a language without any awareness of the origins of the words in it.  That is typically the norm.  So I do not assume that Chagall intended an insult with the use of the word "Yeshu".

Even without that assumption I think that identifying that as a favourite painting is disturbing and shocking.  It is such a thoroughly unChristian picture that it ought to create feelings of revulsion in a Catholic.  Chagall co-opted Christian imagery to further the Jєωιѕн narrative.  He made the Saviour into a symbol of Jews.  It is simply wrong.


To hell with your "all Jews" straw man— precisely your style that prompted me to ask if you are a marrano.

I provided three specific examples: (1) the Jew slut who clearly intended to insult Jesus, (2) the Chasidic artist "Chagall," and (3) Jorge. Not once did I or anyone mention "all Jews."

Example (1): Watch the video and tell me with a straight face that slut didn't know or intend to insult Jesus.
Example (2): BeShT, the founder of Chagall's Chasidic sect was intimately familiar with the Toledot Yeshu, the very same docuмent that is the earliest known printed example of the acronym. Chagall is docuмented to be a fervent and throughly schooled Chasid, yet you advance the maybe-he-didn't-know-it-was-an-insult nonsense, putting a Chasidic-dressed "Yeshu" in the center of Jews' perceived woes with rabbis flying like angels over "Yeshu." Chagall did not "co-opt" Christian imagery; he perverted it.
Example (3): Jorge has boasted for decades of his study of and affinity for тαℓмυdic/kabbalistic/chasidic Judaism, specifically Chasidism of the Toledot Yeshu type, yet you again advance the maybe-he-didn't-know-it-was-an-insult nonsense.

Do "all Jews" know the acronymic insult? No. Do many know and use the acronymic insult? Yes!  In fact, the first time I learned of the insult was from a Jew co-worker who was laughing about stupid goyim who unknowingly used the Yeshu name, instead of Yeshua. He thought it was hilarious that the goyim made a pretense of using Hebrew without knowing their Hebrew was an insult.

Your "revulsion" is as credible as crocodile tears.

Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #119 on: October 12, 2019, 06:29:35 PM »
Unacceptable, infuriating? How about heretical? Is what he said heretical, Jaynek?
As is typical, he says something that will come across as heretical to many/most but is theoretically possible to interpret in an orthodox way. (This theoretical possibility does not make it acceptable.) I found this one especially infuriating because he is basically admitting that he does this deliberately.  He is implying that it is OK for him to say things that sound heretical.  He doesn't care if it confuses people.  The man who has the supreme teaching authority in the Church is not even going to try to state things so that they are clearly orthodox.

He has repeatedly shown contempt for people who care about orthodoxy and theological precision.  These things are not important to him and he thinks that there is something wrong with the people who do think it is important.  He is failing his responsibility as pope and I consider his behaviour to be spiritual abuse of his charges.

I wouldn't call it heresy, strictly speaking, but unbelievably damaging to the Church and to humanity which relies on the Church for the truth.