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Author Topic: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ  (Read 22390 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2019, 09:27:48 AM »
Media wise, it is pretty evident that the "old atheist' ( the term could be applied to Francis as well )is a professional trial balloon floater for Bergoglio.  How many times has this happened before? The Vatican and Francis use this "journalist" as a shield of deniability to float as much heresy as they can get away with, and to gauge  public reaction. if there isn't much, they go ahead with the agenda without scathing Francis. If there is a great outcry, they deny it and retreat for the next neferious anti-Christ moment. I'm totally sick of this manipulation.
I am not a sede but I am seriously considering the Giuffre theory of a living True Pope; banished so that an anti-pope can falsely take the seat and promote apostasy as there is no Grace of the  office for an invalid pope. So- there is a need for a (banished)true Pope so that the invalid anti-pope, not impacted by the Holy Spirit can spread as much destruction as he can. In other words, Francis couldn't exist in his present apsotasy without Benedict, and  the four Vll anti-Popes prior couldn't exist without a living Cardinal Siri.(Pope Gregory XVll)

Bergoglio has been turning many people into sedevacantists, including some in the Novus Ordo.  I myself believe that Siri was the legitimate Pope, but I do not believe that he appointed successors.  So I reject the usual accusation against sedevacantism that the See has been vacant for 61 years.  It's only been about 30.

Offline Mark 79

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Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2019, 09:36:07 AM »
…All I’m saying is that for something with such immense implications, I want to hear it straight from him.…
It is already well-docuмented that Bergoglio said Jesus sinned and made himself the devil.
How many more heresies are needed?


Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2019, 09:37:10 AM »
If Bergoglio were to come out and confirm this heresy, there would be no need for any declaration by the Church.  This is where S&S are wrong.  When it's obvious and blatant like this, there's no need for any formal declaration, since all Catholics would simply recognize that this man is not one of us.  S&S muddied the waters with their shoddy work.

What effect would any declaration have?  Since the Church cannot judge the pope or juridically convict him of anything at all, it would only be a clarification regarding the mind of the Church.  It only serves a purpose where perhaps the Church might be divided and not unanimous, or where there was any disagreement over whether a particular proposition was actually heretical.  Such a declaration would have the effect of the Church "making up her mind" on the matter ... and that's it.  In a case like this, where Bergoglio were to deny the Divinity of Christ, he would be non-Catholic and a non-Pope without any declaration.  S&S falsely drew the line at "apostasy" due to bad theology.

I think S&S clarified the waters, rather than muddying them:

Their doctrine is nothing more than a restatement of JST, and they pointed out that the only difference between JST and Bellarmine was whether or not a SECOND DECLARATION by the Church was necessary to declare Christ had deposed the pope (while BOTH AGREED the Church would have to declare the fact of the pope’s heresy).

So the idea that a pope is deposed ipso facto for heresy without a declaration of the Church is supported by nobody.

But that novel and unsupported opinion is exactly what you are proposing (and it is obviously ruinous and incompatible for the unity of the Church to have a Protestant private interpretation by private individuals determining subjectively whether or not there is a pope.

Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2019, 09:39:44 AM »
It is already well-docuмented that Bergoglio said Jesus sinned and made himself the devil.
How many more heresies are needed?

That he is a heretic, I have very little doubt.

But what follows therefrom is the essence of the dispute/confusion.

Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2019, 09:40:23 AM »
A Pope who says "Jesus is not a God at all" is not a Pope at all. It is high treason against Jesus Christ our King to even let such a statement stand.

But, of course, there is always the plausible deniability. But never the denial of heresy, and the affirmation of dogma. Jesus Christ is Lord and God. That is the Truth and the confession of that Truth is necessary for salvation. Francis will claim he never said it, but will he affirm he believes that Our Lord Jesus Christ is God?

The Pope is denying Jesus Christ, at least by his silence. Mary our Mother must be weeping. If true, he can surely be declared deposed by the Church.

Just saw this while typing: https://catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2019/10/10/the-vatican-flatly-rejects-claim-that-pope-denied-divinity-of-jesus/ "“On this [latest editorial by Eugenio Scalfari], as you know, there has already been a clear denial by the Director of the Press Office, Dr [Matteo] Bruni. However, I would like to reiterate that the Holy Father never said what Scalfari wrote that he said. Therefore, both the quoted remarks, and the free reconstruction and interpretation by Dr Scalfari of the colloquies — which go back to more than two years ago — cannot be considered a faithful account of what was said by the Pope. And that will be found rather throughout the Church’s magisterium and Pope Francis’s own, on Jesus: true God and true man.” But no statement from Pope Francis himself, but someone else. As usual.