Author Topic: Francis Cardinals meet in Rome to Revise Churchs Constitution (Read 803 times)

Ambrose · « **on:** October 09, 2013, 10:45:38 PM »

Pope Francis outlines hopes for church reform as meetings with cardinals begin[/b]
Published October 01, 2013 | FoxNews.com

Eight cardinals appointed by Pope Francis are meeting at the Vatican to revise the church’s constitution, with the pope saying that he wants a missionary church with a modern spirit that gives hope to the poor, young and elderly.

In a lengthy interview with the editor of Rome daily La Repubblica published Tuesday, Francis denounced the "Vatican-centric" nature of the Holy See, explained his affinity for his namesake St. Francis and described how he was "invaded by anxiety" after he was elected, but then excused himself from the Sistine Chapel, closed his eyes and was filled with a light that enabled him to accept the job.

Francis and the cardinals will meet from Oct. 1-3. After the meetings, Francis will review proposals for changes to the constitution, according to Rome Reports.

But no decisions are expected this week from the talks, and the pope has said reform takes time.

Cardinal Oscar Rodríguez Maradiaga of Honduras said before the meetings that the group has received suggestions on Vatican reform from around the world, The Telegraph reports.

The current church constitution was drawn up in 1988 by Pope John Paul II, who will be declared a saint in April.

Maradiaga said in a television interview that the old “constitution is over.”

"Now it is something different. We need to write something different,” he added, according to The Telegraph.

The worldwide church reform group We Are Church has written Francis asking for greater say among lay Catholics about the selection of bishops and for church officials to be removed from office if they mishandled cases of sɛҳuąƖly abusive priests.

"He has been reaching out to atheists, gαys and others. He wants dialogue. We want that too," organizer Rene Reid said in a statement.

Conservatives and traditionalists, however, have reacted with dismay and downright alarm at the direction Francis has taken, particularly in the interview with the Jesuit-run La Civilta Cattolica, in which he bemoaned the church's obsession with "small-minded rules."

The seven other cardinals who will attend the meetings are Francisco Javier Errazuriz from Chile, Oswald Gracias from India, Reinhard Marx from Germany, Laurent Monsengwo Pasinya from Congo, George Pell from Australia, Sean Patrick O’Malley from the United States and Giuseppe Bertello of Italy, according to Rome Reports.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/10/01/pope-francis-eight-cardinals-set-to-rewrite-church-constitution/

Ambrose · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2013, 11:22:24 PM »

Vatican: No report on cardinals' group; pope's latest interview 'accurate'

Joshua J. McElwee John L. Allen Jr. | Oct. 2, 2013
Vatican City
Pope Francis' first meeting with eight cardinals advising him on reforming the church saw the group take up a wide range of themes, including reform of the Vatican bureaucracy and the role of the laity, the Vatican said Wednesday.

The group also talked about preparing a study to improve the church's pastoral work with families, said Vatican spokesman Jesuit Fr. Federico Lombardi.

The spokesman made available some details of the group's meetings at a press briefing Wednesday. But Lombardi said observers should not expect too much more information about the sessions, saying they are a "council for the pope's governance."

The meetings are not meant to generate docuмents for review by the faithful, Lombardi said. The pope will communicate any decisions made as a result of the cardinals' advice personally, he said.

"We have to liberate ourselves from the expectation of [having] docuмents or decisions from this council," Lombardi said. "The fruits are in good decisions of the pope, borne in knowledge of the needs of the universal church, form the cardinals and from others the pope may consult."

The cardinals' group, known officially as the Council of Cardinals, is meeting at the Vatican for the first time Tuesday through Thursday. The meeting, the first of its kind, has generated speculation over what kind of things might be on the cardinals' agenda or what kind of reforms might be expected to result.

On Monday, the Vatican announced [1] the pope had formalized the structure of the cardinals' group in a formal letter Saturday, asking them to help reform the Vatican's bureaucracy and "help me with governance of the universal church."

Beyond the cardinals' meetings, focus at the press briefing Wednesday was also on the pope's latest interview, published Tuesday by the Italian daily La Repubblica.

In the wide-ranging interview [2], conducted by Eugenio Scalfari, the paper's atheist editor, the pope touches on several sensitive topics, calling the papal court the "leprosy of the papacy" and saying its governance is too "Vatican-centric."

Responding to reporters' questions Wednesday, Lombardi said the pope "does not dispute" what was written. If the pope wanted to dispute the accuracy of the interview, he would, Lombardi said.

The spokesman also said the pope feels free to express himself in different ways, trusting the public to understand there are differences when he is speaking in different venues, from homilies to interviews to official teachings.

"I think the pope's charisma is obvious, as is his desire to communicate directly with people," Lombardi said.

"This is a very clear message of the pope's interest in dialogue without prejudice," Lombardi continued.

The spokesman said the cardinals' meetings began Tuesday morning with the pope and cardinals conducting a short review on the structure of the church since the Second Vatican Council, held in Rome from 1962-65.

Other topics discussed, according to Lombardi: communion, participation and collegiality in the church; the preferential option for the poor; and the different responsibilities of all members of the church.

The reform of the Synod of Bishops was also a "major theme" of the first day of the meeting, Lombardi said. The Synod of Bishops is an advisory body of bishops from around the world, set up after the Second Vatican Council and meant to advise the pope in his governing of the church.

The pope has said several times he would like to reform the body, which has a permanent secretariat at the Vatican but is not part of the central bureaucracy.

Speaking to the secretariat in June [3], the pope said he and his advisory cardinals need to "find a path for coordination between synodality and the bishop of Rome."

Lombardi said another theme being taken up by the cardinals group is the reform of the Vatican bureaucracy. Included in that discussion, he said, is the relationship of the Vatican's various offices with the pope and the role of the Vatican's secretary of state, who in the last few decades has traditionally acted as a sort of prime minister for the pontiff.

There are "ample suggestions" for ideas of reform, Lombardi said, adding that people should not expect conclusions on any of the matters to come quickly.

[Joshua J. McElwee is NCR national correspondent. His email address is jmcelwee@ncronline.org [4]. Follow him on Twitter: @joshjmac [5]. John L. Allen Jr. is NCR senior correspondent. His email address is jallen@ncronline.org [6]. Follow him on Twitter: @JohnLAllenJr [7].]

http://ncronline.org/print/news/vatican/vatican-no-report-cardinals-group-popes-latest-interview-accurate
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So, Francis is not denying what he said in that horrible interview. That is a huge admission on his part, he now owns those words and there can not be any further dispute over whether he really said those things.

ThomisticPhilosopher · « **Reply #2 on:** October 10, 2013, 04:47:55 AM »

Man I love this guy, he is our most ardent preacher of Sedevacantism. Its hard to keep up with him! Deo gratias, to anyone who doubts the Good Providence of Our Loving Saviour. This is definitely the biggest blessing we have had since the last 50 years. It took Jesuits to destroy the Church and it was a Jesuit that killed any Catholicity left in that schismatic institution.

Ladies and gentleman, brace yourselves we have ourselves an overt schism that even conservative Catholics will wake up to in the near future.

I would suggest an award from the CMRI/SV'ist clergy to Bergoglio thanking him for all the hard efforts he has done to increase the remnant faithful of Catholics to a state of real awareness of the reality of the Holy See.

Not to hijack your thread, but I just saw this video from this . I don't know all the details, but supposing he was incarcerated for Sedevacantism that is definitely a dangerous precedent. Does anyone know anything about his particular details?

There will be a point in the near future, that traditional Catholics will have so much revulsion for the man that they will finally recognize that a non-Catholic apostate heretic is not the head of the Church.

I really wonder what the faithful Novus Ordite who is conservative is telling himself, that "the media misunderstood him". As someone who knows spanish (super close to Italian, I can definitely understand about 95% of it) also including several traditional priest who have read the original interview in Italian completely agree that there was no mistranslation, yet the blind/deaf crowd refuses to acknowledge that. This will really settle the question once and for all, those who continually want to be blind so be it. Those who are sincere will have eyes to see that the man clearly meant what he said, lets have none of this modernist exegesis. What is amazing is this is coming from so called traditionally minded Conciliarists... You can't even read a simple statement without having to "interpret" it yourself in a Catholic way.

The plot thickens indeed!

Ladislaus · « **Reply #3 on:** October 10, 2013, 09:25:32 AM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Francis ... described how he was "invaded by anxiety" after he was elected, but then excused himself from the Sistine Chapel, closed his eyes and was filled with a light that enabled him to accept the job.

One might say that he was illuminated.

Incredulous · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2013, 07:47:09 PM »

Quote from: ThomisticPhilosopher

Man I love this guy, he is our most ardent preacher of Sedevacantism. Its hard to keep up with him! Deo gratias, to anyone who doubts the Good Providence of Our Loving Saviour. This is definitely the biggest blessing we have had since the last 50 years. It took Jesuits to destroy the Church and it was a Jesuit that killed any Catholicity left in that schismatic institution.

Ladies and gentleman, brace yourselves we have ourselves an overt schism that even conservative Catholics will wake up to in the near future.

I would suggest an award from the CMRI/SV'ist clergy to Bergoglio thanking him for all the hard efforts he has done to increase the remnant faithful of Catholics to a state of real awareness of the reality of the Holy See.

Not to hijack your thread, but I just saw this video from this . I don't know all the details, but supposing he was incarcerated for Sedevacantism that is definitely a dangerous precedent. Does anyone know anything about his particular details?

There will be a point in the near future, that traditional Catholics will have so much revulsion for the man that they will finally recognize that a non-Catholic apostate heretic is not the head of the Church.

I really wonder what the faithful Novus Ordite who is conservative is telling himself, that "the media misunderstood him". As someone who knows spanish (super close to Italian, I can definitely understand about 95% of it) also including several traditional priest who have read the original interview in Italian completely agree that there was no mistranslation, yet the blind/deaf crowd refuses to acknowledge that. This will really settle the question once and for all, those who continually want to be blind so be it. Those who are sincere will have eyes to see that the man clearly meant what he said, lets have none of this modernist exegesis. What is amazing is this is coming from so called traditionally minded Conciliarists... You can't even read a simple statement without having to "interpret" it yourself in a Catholic way.

The plot thickens indeed!

The eight cardinals of Bergy's executive committee.
They look like a commie "think-tank" team from the Frankfurt school.

What is this, a private Vatican III ?

You are right... Bergy will unite the true traditional Catholics.

Ambrose · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2013, 08:47:38 PM »

It would be interesting to know more about why he chose these eight and not others. I do not believe it was accidental. He has an agenda, and thinks of himself as a reformer, so he picked these eight for some reason.

Frances · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2013, 08:53:04 PM »

:confused1:Same error! Mistaking novelty for progress.

Incredulous · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2013, 08:59:38 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

It would be interesting to know more about why he chose these eight and not others. I do not believe it was accidental. He has an agenda, and thinks of himself as a reformer, so he picked these eight for some reason.

Cardinal Reinhard Marx is my favorite.