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Author Topic: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?  (Read 1605 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2021, 08:35:22 AM »
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    Most of today's Evangelicals are anti-Communist.

    No they aren't.  ƈσmmυɳιsm, in its essence is anti-catholicism.  They can't philosophically reject ƈσmmυɳιsm because they too, are anti-catholic.  "Good" protestants mostly accept socialism but only reject ƈσmmυɳιsm ECONOMICALLY.  They only reject the end effects of ƈσmmυɳιsm (i.e. govt enslavement, loss of freedom) but they like the "freedom" aspects of socialism (i.e. no rules, no religion, do what feels right).  It's like they are a druggie who wants the high but doesn't want to pay the $ or be hooked.  Life doesn't work that way.  
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    When someone rejects Catholicism, they are rejecting peace and societal order, even if they don't realize it.  Protestantism leads to ƈσmmυɳιsm because all sin/heresy leads to slavery.  Catholicism is the only philosophy, economic system and social structure which gives freedom.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
    « Reply #16 on: April 12, 2021, 03:36:15 PM »
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    What is the solution?  ...To study apologetics and evangelism and work to help Protestants return to the Catholic Church.
    Agree but only if the apologetics includes the true and dogmatic challenge to Protestants:  “Unless you become a Catholic and accept the Church, you will not be saved.  Only good Catholics go to heaven.”
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    Whenever I talk to Protestants, they start with their “dogma” that everyone must “accept Christ as their personal savior”.  Then they bash Catholicism and I let them ramble for a bit.  Then I tell them, “Yes, Catholics accept Christ as our personal savior and we go to mass, which is the unbloody Good Friday and we receive Him in Holy Communion in thanksgiving for His Mercy.”
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    They usually pause a bit, then continue on with anti-Catholic stuff.  Then I interrupt them and ask the simple question:  “Since I accept Christ I am saved, right?”
      They respond “yes”.   Then I ask, “So I can be saved in my catholic religion, right?”   Inevitably, they agree.   
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    Then I tell them they CANNOT be saved in their false religion because they have a false bible and deny all kinds of dogmas and ignore the Church Fathers.  This usually ends the conversion. 
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    Xavier, I don’t see how you’ll ever convert any Protestants because you believe that baptized Protestants can go to heaven.  So they have no incentive to change. So the conversation about conversion is pointless.
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    But if you convert YOUR views to the true, EENS dogma, you will be able to challenge non-Catholics in the only true way.  As it is, your errors may even prevent YOUR personal salvation, because as it is, you are a V2 heretic.  I will keep praying for you.  
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
    « Reply #17 on: April 12, 2021, 03:59:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: XavierSem on April 12, 2021, 05:16:08 AM
    In 99% of cases where non-Catholics baptize, it will be a Protestant minister who baptizes. The question is whether this statement can be understood in an orthodox manner: "the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church ... it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation." (UR #3)

    The Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using Protestant ministers to confer Baptism, and therefore, salvation to e.g. infants. True. These means derive their efficacy from the very fullness of Grace and Truth entrusted to the Church. True. It is only through the Catholic Church, "the all-embracing means of salvation" that one can benefit fully from the means of salvation. I see these statements as reconcilable with Tradition. Later on, Dominus Iesus clarified Protestant ecclesial communities are not Churches in the proper sense.

    Show me Traditional Catholic teaching that teaches that non-Catholic/Protestant religions/churches/ecclesiastical communities have any portion of the means of salvation.  And that the Catholic Church has the all embracing means of salvation (ie. "the fullness" vs partial) as opposed to the only means of salvation.
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