Author Topic: Francis: "The Latin Mass is rather a kind of fashion." (Read 7961 times)

icterus · « **Reply #45 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:39:29 AM »

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Just out of curiosity, what are you "well informed" in?
Since you have it in your signature I have my curiosity evoked.

No idea. Cassini posted it, I'm just quoting it to provoke people like you.

icterus · « **Reply #46 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:40:45 AM »

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You dont seriously believe that they put sugar on the sacrament at an SSPX church...
I meant spiritually sweet.

You are so blissfully unaware of being hoist by your own petard.

soulguard · « **Reply #47 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:46:58 AM »

Quote from: icterus

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You dont seriously believe that they put sugar on the sacrament at an SSPX church...
I meant spiritually sweet.

You are so blissfully unaware of being hoist by your own petard.

Excuse me???

I am not really bothered by what someone like you will say to me. I am going to the pub now in a minute and there will speak of religion to the godless.

icterus · « **Reply #48 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:48:21 AM »

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I am going to the pub now in a minute and there will speak of religion to the godless.

Please, don't. I don't want them thinking you in some way represent the Catholic Church.

icterus · « **Reply #49 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:49:35 AM »

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Excuse me???

It's from Shakespeare, which is, like, books. So.

soulguard · « **Reply #50 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:49:58 AM »

Quote from: icterus

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Just out of curiosity, what are you "well informed" in?
Since you have it in your signature I have my curiosity evoked.

No idea. Cassini posted it, I'm just quoting it to provoke people like you.

Well your plan did not work. I will say 12 Ave Marias for you and chill at the pub avec mes amis.

Farewell.

soulguard · « **Reply #51 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:52:22 AM »

Quote from: icterus

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I am going to the pub now in a minute and there will speak of religion to the godless.

Please, don't. I don't want them thinking you in some way represent the Catholic Church.

I am very good at converting people. You cant stop me. Enough time wasted on you for one day.
Last piece of advice... go listen to Gregorian chant, or learn how to say the Confiteor.
Feeling sorry for you will not keep me online talking to you, but count on my prayers for def.

bye

icterus · « **Reply #52 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:56:05 AM »

I have to say the confiteor every time time I serve Mass. Twice, if it's an FSSP priest. It's an option in '62, you know.

Memento · « **Reply #53 on:** February 17, 2014, 12:18:45 PM »

Icterus, I do not debate you because you are too keen, slick and intelligent for me. You know what happened to Eve don't you?

What I said to you is what you have in your very own Avatar :" read a book". After you finally read Fr. Adrian Fortescue's book tell me if you can justifiably compose your question to include that concoction masquerading as the Roman Liturgy written in 1964 or so and beyond.

Btw, Fr. Fortescue does say the CANON remained unchanged so I guess the 1962 Mass may not be included in his statement.

What is par for your course is that you just do not see the whole picture. I think I would ask you to sew buttons on a coat but would never ask you to tailor one.

By the way folks Icterus knows I was not calling him names. The meadowlark is an icterid. Part of its anatomy is yellow.

Also, you are in my prayers.
Sorry to hit and run but that is just the way it's got to be with you.

icterus · « **Reply #54 on:** February 17, 2014, 12:22:05 PM »

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Btw, Fr. Fortescue does say the CANON remained unchanged so I guess the 1962 Mass may not be included in his statement.

Way to hide a complete capitulation in the text of a quick little note as you breeze by.

So, the '62 is not included in those missals which avoid the wrath of the Saints called down by Pope Pius V.

Fascinating.

Somehow, I suspect that (like Cassini's claim the Exsultet is Satanic) this will be studiously ignored by everyone.

SJB · « **Reply #55 on:** February 17, 2014, 12:32:01 PM »

Quote from: icterus

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Of course, if not for the sole reason that the Holy Ghost gave them all the gift of tongues

On Pentecost. We have no idea whether it was extended. The presence of the attested interpreter and his authorship of Peter's gospel account would lead one to think not.

In any case, the Mass was in Greek before it was in Latin, and theresimply isn't any extant Catholic Latin before Tertullian, a century and half after St Peter.

And your point is what, icterus?

It is true that the Church does not say that the Mass has to be celebrated everywhere in Latin. She has had any number of valid Masses in the vernacular: Slavonic (Glagolitic), Ukrainian, Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopic etc. Even though the Mass is celebrated in many places in the vernacular, the vernacular is NOT the norm. The norm is established by the Church. And the Roman Church decided long before Trent that the language of the rite in the churches in the territories specifically belonging to the Patriarch of the West (the Roman Pontiff) was not the vernacular but Latin.

Deviation from this in a widespread manner is a novelty, not a return to antiquity, as some will have us believe.

Memento · « **Reply #56 on:** February 17, 2014, 12:41:11 PM »

Quote from: icterus

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Btw, Fr. Fortescue does say the CANON remained unchanged so I guess the 1962 Mass may not be included in his statement.

Way to hide a complete capitulation in the text of a quick little note as you breeze by.

So, the '62 is not included in those missals which avoid the wrath of the Saints called down by Pope Pius V.

Fascinating.

Somehow, I suspect that (like Cassini's claim the Exsultet is Satanic) this will be studiously ignored by everyone.

Not by me, as I go to an older Mass. Anyway you keep doing your own drive-bys.

Matto · « **Reply #57 on:** February 17, 2014, 01:48:17 PM »

Quote from: icterus

I have to say the confiteor every time time I serve Mass. Twice, if it's an FSSP priest. It's an option in '62, you know.

I thought the last confiteor was taken out of the '62 missal and was not an option, but people like Lefebvre put it back on their own because they thought it was better to say another confiteor before communion.

icterus · « **Reply #58 on:** February 17, 2014, 02:01:01 PM »

SJB wrote:

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And your point is what, icterus?

As usual, your reading skills appear to be lacking.

The pithy comment "The Latin Mass has been trending for 2,000 years" (or something close to it) was made (which I think is pretty cute) and I simply corrected it to 'about 1,700'. The other posted asked me to clarify, and we have been discussing.

That's all. It's a side topic in a discussion about Pope Francis. I can see how a topic within a topic would probably blow all of your mental fuses.

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It is true that the Church does not say that the Mass has to be celebrated everywhere in Latin. She has had any number of valid Masses in the vernacular: Slavonic (Glagolitic), Ukrainian, Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopic etc. Even though the Mass is celebrated in many places in the vernacular, the vernacular is NOT the norm. The norm is established by the Church. And the Roman Church decided long before Trent that the language of the rite in the churches in the territories specifically belonging to the Patriarch of the West (the Roman Pontiff) was not the vernacular but Latin.

Yeah. I know. Again, you need to work on your reading comprehension..your typing skills are obviously fine.

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Deviation from this in a widespread manner is a novelty, not a return to antiquity, as some will have us believe.

SJB, you have your cranium so far in your own duodenum that you aren't following any of the discussions taking place. I'm not arguing for the vernacular. As you and the rest of the slack-jawed idiots seem eternally destined to keep forgetting, I'm a TLM'er.

Apparently, calling for honest argumentation that has rigor is far too complicated and nuanced a position for you to understand, and when your fuses blow, all you can come back to us 'Ugh, Icterus Bad. Icterus bad so he must like the Novus Ordo. Novus Ordo Bad! Icterus Bad! Icterus bad heretic!" and so forth.

icterus · « **Reply #59 on:** February 17, 2014, 02:03:04 PM »

Matto wrote:

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I thought the last confiteor was taken out of the '62 missal and was not an option, but people like Lefebvre put it back on their own because they thought it was better to say another confiteor before communion.

I use the 'little red book' about serving the TLM. It says the second confiteor is an option in the '62. I'm just repeating what it says.

I have served for priests who learned the TLM in Rome at the NAC and they don't want the 2nd confiteor, and for SSPX priests trained in Nebraska, who all expect it.

That's all I know.