Is Francis a Donatist?

He said: "We do not give the Bread of Life to eat; we do give – in those cases - the bread of Truth! And many times, we even offer a poisoned meal!" (source)

How could a validly consecrated Host ever ever be a "a poisoned meal"?

"Poor people! We do not give the Bread of Life to eat; we do give – in those cases - the bread of Truth! And many times, we even offer a poisoned meal! ‘Awaken! Why do you sleep, Lord?' Let this be our prayer! ‘Awaken! Do not reject us forever! Why do you hide Your face? Why do You forget our affliction and oppression?' We ask the Lord that we never forget the Word of God, which is alive, so that it enters into our hearts and never to forget the holy people faithful to God who ask us to nourish and strengthen them. "


Text from page http://en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=764583
of the Vatican Radio website

 
 

I may decide to analyse Pope Francis' words a little more carefully later but then again I may decide to do something else.

I can hear you winking even from here! As for the "something else" you mention, brewing a nice cup of tea would certainly be a better, more productive use of one's time and staring at a blank wall would certainly be no worse.

… the use of the word "Donatist" is correct to an extent. Also, I really despise the way he is using "collective guilt" for the sins of the People of God - who are they anyway? We are Catholics and we are part of the Catholic Church, a perfect society and if we fail and become sinners, we then become penitents. Pope Francis is just using the terminology of the new church invented at Vatican II with the whole People of God.

Splendid analysis! As he did months ago with his branding of Trads as Pelagians, His Humbleness is here taking a recognized terminology and form of expression (i.e., relating to Donatism) and twisting them beyond recognition by (1) misapplying them to a situation never envisioned by those who coined and previously used the terms and referents and (2) effectively redefining (in Alice in Wonderland fashion) the very vocabulary of Donatism so that that vocabulary no longer denotes what anyone unaware of his deliberate sabotage might think it means.

As you say, this has been the Vatican II Project from Day 1, beginning with the docuмents the council generated: use the language of Tradition while redefining it and misapplying it. This is precisely what the Marxist revolutionary theorist Antonio Gramsci termed "revolution within the forms." Everything looks the same from the outside, but what was formerly within has been gutted and replaced with its contrary.

My God, why haven't those who consider themselves "traditional Catholics" and yet still remain in the embrace of the Novus Ordo Church have woken up and smelled the coffee?  Get out now - for the sake of your immortal soul!  There is no such thing (anymore) of Traditional Catholicism within the Novus Ordo - only "high church catholicism" - and even that is on it's deathbed with this current "pope".

I'm sorry to sound a bit hysterical but with each and every word that comes out of Jorge Mario Bergoglio's mouth,  I lament the number of souls being lost.  

May our Lord and God have mercy upon each and every one of us!

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This is trivializing the Blessed Sacrament, by denying it -- vaguely.  You see, when the priest gives a sermon or a speech, he's giving out the bread of life.  Yeah, right.  So Holy Communion is unnecessary, basically.  All you have to do is LISTEN to the WORD and you're receiving the bread of life.  But it might be poison.........

Quote from: Ladislaus

He's using Bread of Life as a reference to the Word of God, not to the Blessed Sacrament.

So he thinks God's word is poison?  Why does that not surprise me?

Marsha

This is so vague it isn't funny.  He did not specify for WHOM it would be "poison!!!"  

He said sometimes we (priests) offer poison - he could come back later and say the poison is effective on the devil, and he could quote Saint Benedict, who said to the devil, "Drink your poison yourself,"  "Ipse venea bibas!"

So why would he say such vague things?  He is softening up the audience for the Antichrist.  You hear something that SHOCKS you and you get upset about it, and then a day or two later he comes out with a "clarification" that shows you how wrong you can be........ TO EMBARRASS YOU!

You were getting upset over nothing, "...so LEARN TO TRUST him, don't 'cha know?" If you believe that, you'll be a prime candidate to follow the Antichrist.  

Isn't that great?


So it's no problem for him to embarrass good Catholics, like with the acolyte with praying hands in St. Peter's grotto, when Francis pulled them apart.  No problem, eh?  No problem inducing SUFFERING where it doesn't belong, because he later pumps out fuzzy words saying that suffering must be relieved.  Oh, but he just made an altar boy suffer, and all the Catholics who watched it, but that's okay.  Because suffering must be relieved -- he said so, therefore, the suffering disappears, like magic!  Just with the power of the spoken word!  It's a miracle!

And what about all the Catholics whose Faith was INJURED by his beach ball T-shirt on the altar of St. Mary Major?  Oh, that's okay because the greatest evil imaginable is youth unemployment and the loneliness of the elderly.  He said so, therefore, the beach ball is no problem, and so too with the T-shirt.  ANOTHER miracle!

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, his words ARE poison.


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Marsha beat me to it - how can the Word of God be a poisoned meal??!!!  Whatever does that mean?  I await the 'translation'.

Okay, here it is:  It might be poison but he's already given you the antidote.  

The meaning of Christ's Resurrection is, we are no longer slaves to sin!  We have been redeemed by the Blood of Christ, so now, there is no more slavery to sin.  Therefore (actually, he'll never say "therefore" because that presumes you can t-h-i-n-k, and we can't have that happening!), the poison of his words cannot make you a slave to sin.  

So cheer up!    :smile:


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Neil, are you a lawyer?

You cut me to the quick, Thorn!  





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Marsha beat me to it - how can the Word of God be a poisoned meal??!!!  Whatever does that mean?  I await the 'translation'.

In his daily homily, Pope Francis addressed the issue of various scandals that happen within the Church, emphasizing that they occur when we no longer have a true relationship with God.

When we are corrupt “we do not give the Bread of Life to eat,” the Pope explained in this Jan. 16 daily Mass, but “many times, we…offer a poisoned meal!”

The pontiff centered his homily, addressed to those present in the Vatican’s Santa Marta guesthouse, on the day’s first reading, taken from the First Book of Samuel, and the responsorial psalm, which recount Israel’s defeat by the Philistines.

During their battle with the Philistines, he observed, the Israelites did bring the Ark of the Covenant, but sought to use it as something “magical” and “external,” and were defeated.

“This passage of Scripture makes us think about what sort of relationship we have with God, with the Word of God,” the Pope observed, asking those present if theirs is “a formal relationship? Is it a distant relationship?”

When the Word of God enters us, it “changes our hearts,” Pope Francis explained, highlighting that when we have a formal relationship with God, “the heart is closed to that Word!”

“It leads us to think of the so many defeats of the Church, so many defeats of God's people simply because they do not hear the Lord, do not seek the Lord, do not allow themselves to be sought by the Lord!”

Returning to the first reading, the pontiff noted after a “tragedy” such as the defeat of the Israelites, then comes the prayer “’But, Lord , what happened ? You have made us the scorn of our neighbors. The scorn and derision of those around us. You have made us the laughing stock among nations! All the nations shake their heads about us.’”

Turning to the topic of scandals which occur in the Church, the Pope asked “But are we ashamed?” stating that there are “So many scandals that I do not want to mention individually, but all of us know...We know where they are!”

These scandals, he said, “some who charged a lot of money,” are “the shame of the Church!”

“But are we all ashamed of those scandals, of those failings of priests, bishops, laity?” continued the Pope, asking “where was the Word of God in those scandals; where was the Word of God in those men and in those women? They did not have a relationship with God!”

“They had a position in the Church, a position of power, even of comfort. But the Word of God, no!”

“’But, I wear a medal,’ ‘I carry the Cross’…Yes, just as those” who “bore the Ark,” the pontiff explained, “without the living relationship with God and the Word of God!”

In these situations, Pope Francis noted that he is reminded of what Jesus says about those for whom scandals come, saying that “here the scandal hit: bringing decay, to the people of God, including the weakness and corruption of the priests.”

Changing his focus to the People of God, the Pope lamented that they are “Poor people!” and emphasized that often “we do not give the Bread of Life to eat; we do give -- in those cases -- the bread of Truth! And many times, we even offer a poisoned meal!”

Pope Francis concluded his homily with a prayer quoting the scriptures, saying “‘Awaken! Do not reject us forever! Why do you hide Your face? Why do You forget our affliction and oppression?’”

“We ask the Lord that we never forget the Word of God, which is alive, so that it enters into our hearts and never to forget the holy people faithful to God who ask us to nourish and strengthen them.”

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-scandals-poison-and-deny-the-bread-of-life/