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Author Topic: Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions  (Read 1719 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
« on: May 17, 2013, 09:43:04 AM »
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  • Read the Remnant article he links to if you have time. It is a good one!

    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/05/again-about-validity-of-absolutions-by-sspx-priests/

    Again about validity of absolutions by SSPX priests

    Posted on 16 May 2013 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

    A priest reader sent me a link to an article on the site of The Remnant, which is I believe a bi-monthly newspaper staunchly on the traditional side of our Catholic spectrum.  The article in question concerns the validity of absolution of sins given by priests of the SSPX.  HERE

    In a nutshell, the article argues that SSPX priests absolve validly.  I do not believe that to be true.   SSPX priests do not have faculties to receive sacramental confessions.  Period.  Faculties are necessary for validity.

    I will not here replicate the piece from The Remnant.  Visit their site and read it on your own.   On the other hand, after consulting a canonist whom I trust can I offer this response.

    The article in The Remnant is mostly another “Ecclesia supplet” argument which Jimmy Akin, among others, has handily proven faulty in these circuмstances. HERE

    The author of the Remnant piece decries that Rome has made no public official pronouncement on the matter. Therefore their confessions MUST be valid.

    On the other hand, Rome has made an official pronouncement on the matter – it’s called the Code of Canon Law and it was issued in 1983.

    Just to review, here are the key canons in the 1983 Code for the Latin Church (my emphasis):

    Can. 966 §1 For the valid absolution of sins, it is required that, in addition to the power of order, the minister has the faculty to exercise that power in respect of the faithful to whom he gives absolution.

    §2 A priest can be given this faculty either by the law itself, or by a concession issued by the competent authority in accordance with can. 969.

    Can. 969 §1 Only the local Ordinary is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any whomsoever of the faithful. Priests who are members of religious institutes may not, however, use this faculty without the permission, at least presumed, of their Superior.

    §2 The Superior of a religious institute or of a society of apostolic life, mentioned in can. 968 §2, is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of his own subjects and of those others who live day and night in the house.

    So, a man must be validly ordained and must have the Church’s permission to use the power to absolve sins validly.   That line about “the law itself” refers to a case of danger of death.  If someone is in danger of death, even a former priest validly absolves sins, even if he was a convicted pedophile or supporter of women’s ordination whose clerical status was removed.

    The Remnant writer claims that canon 144 allows an SSPX priest to deem his own absolutions to be valid “due to legal common error”.  However, canon 144 is not for the individual priest to interpret. The legal error must be on the part of the one confessing.  For example, if I go to St. Ipsidipsy in Tall Tree Circle and confess my horrible black sins to a validly ordained priest in the confessional, but I am unaware that that priest’s faculties were suspended that very day, my sins would probably be forgiven.  I would be in error about the facts through no fault of my own.

    So, the law is clear. No reasonable person, and I include SSPX priests in this category, can say that an SSPX priest has faculties to receive sacramental confessions and absolve. There is no reasonable error of law about this.

    The author of the Remnant piece makes a false distinction about the accommodation the Catholic Church grants to the Orthodox.  He effectively argues “if THEIR absolutions are valid, then why aren’t OURS?!” That does not hold water.  If the SSPX are truly not schismatic, and if they are “merely” disobedient sons of Holy Church, then they should be held to a higher standard than the accommodation extended to the schismatic Orthodox.

    If an SSPX priest is truly concerned about the validity of his absolutions, then he needs to find a bishop in communion with Rome and humbly beg that his situation be regularized.   I would go so far to say that if an SSPX priest even doubts that his absolutions may be invalid, then he ought to run, walk, limp or crawl to a friendly diocesan Catholic bishop and beg to be regularized.

    I’ll bet that in most cases a diocesan bishop would find some work for the man which would include celebration of the sacraments in the older form.



    Offline Telesphorus

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 10:23:19 AM »
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  • If the SSPX are truly not schismatic, and if they are “merely” disobedient sons of Holy Church, then they should be held to a higher standard than the accommodation extended to the schismatic Orthodox.

    This is a variation of the classic pharisaism of the conciliarism:

    Only believing Catholics encounter obstacles to salvation!  





    Offline PatrickG

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 10:50:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Read the Remnant article he links to if you have time. It is a good one!

    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/05/again-about-validity-of-absolutions-by-sspx-priests/

    Again about validity of absolutions by SSPX priests

    Posted on 16 May 2013 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

    A priest reader sent me a link to an article on the site of The Remnant, which is I believe a bi-monthly newspaper staunchly on the traditional side of our Catholic spectrum.  The article in question concerns the validity of absolution of sins given by priests of the SSPX.  HERE

    In a nutshell, the article argues that SSPX priests absolve validly.  I do not believe that to be true.   SSPX priests do not have faculties to receive sacramental confessions.  Period.  Faculties are necessary for validity.

    I will not here replicate the piece from The Remnant.  Visit their site and read it on your own.   On the other hand, after consulting a canonist whom I trust can I offer this response.

    The article in The Remnant is mostly another “Ecclesia supplet” argument which Jimmy Akin, among others, has handily proven faulty in these circuмstances. HERE

    The author of the Remnant piece decries that Rome has made no public official pronouncement on the matter. Therefore their confessions MUST be valid.

    On the other hand, Rome has made an official pronouncement on the matter – it’s called the Code of Canon Law and it was issued in 1983.

    Just to review, here are the key canons in the 1983 Code for the Latin Church (my emphasis):

    Can. 966 §1 For the valid absolution of sins, it is required that, in addition to the power of order, the minister has the faculty to exercise that power in respect of the faithful to whom he gives absolution.

    §2 A priest can be given this faculty either by the law itself, or by a concession issued by the competent authority in accordance with can. 969.

    Can. 969 §1 Only the local Ordinary is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any whomsoever of the faithful. Priests who are members of religious institutes may not, however, use this faculty without the permission, at least presumed, of their Superior.

    §2 The Superior of a religious institute or of a society of apostolic life, mentioned in can. 968 §2, is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of his own subjects and of those others who live day and night in the house.

    So, a man must be validly ordained and must have the Church’s permission to use the power to absolve sins validly.   That line about “the law itself” refers to a case of danger of death.  If someone is in danger of death, even a former priest validly absolves sins, even if he was a convicted pedophile or supporter of women’s ordination whose clerical status was removed.

    The Remnant writer claims that canon 144 allows an SSPX priest to deem his own absolutions to be valid “due to legal common error”.  However, canon 144 is not for the individual priest to interpret. The legal error must be on the part of the one confessing.  For example, if I go to St. Ipsidipsy in Tall Tree Circle and confess my horrible black sins to a validly ordained priest in the confessional, but I am unaware that that priest’s faculties were suspended that very day, my sins would probably be forgiven.  I would be in error about the facts through no fault of my own.

    So, the law is clear. No reasonable person, and I include SSPX priests in this category, can say that an SSPX priest has faculties to receive sacramental confessions and absolve. There is no reasonable error of law about this.

    The author of the Remnant piece makes a false distinction about the accommodation the Catholic Church grants to the Orthodox.  He effectively argues “if THEIR absolutions are valid, then why aren’t OURS?!” That does not hold water.  If the SSPX are truly not schismatic, and if they are “merely” disobedient sons of Holy Church, then they should be held to a higher standard than the accommodation extended to the schismatic Orthodox.

    If an SSPX priest is truly concerned about the validity of his absolutions, then he needs to find a bishop in communion with Rome and humbly beg that his situation be regularized.   I would go so far to say that if an SSPX priest even doubts that his absolutions may be invalid, then he ought to run, walk, limp or crawl to a friendly diocesan Catholic bishop and beg to be regularized.

    I’ll bet that in most cases a diocesan bishop would find some work for the man which would include celebration of the sacraments in the older form.


    I find Fr. Zuhlsdorf impossibly wearing. His facetious tone suggests he has very little worth reading to say. I wonder if he accompanied this tripe with another picture of his fine dinners?
    Old-fashioned is good, modern is suicidal.
    - Bishop Richard N. Williamson.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 10:55:42 AM »
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  • Fr. Z is the biggest neo-con.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 11:00:57 AM »
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  • Fr. Z thinks he holds a trump card.  And that trump card is "faculties" and, what do you know, it's in the 1983 Code of Canon Law.  It was the promulgation of this new code of cannon law that pushed Archbishoop LeFebrvre to start the decision process to consecrate the bishops.  

    That's beside the point.  

    The Code of Canon Law 1983 is a product of the Concilliar Church.

    Fr. Z thinks he holds a trump card.  And he's acting like there was no seismic shift theologically, ecclesiologically and in every day devotion with Vatican II.  Fr. Z is acting like there was no rupture in the church.  

    Fr Z thinks the lack of faculties is a trump card and against it we have no defense.  

    He has a point because it just might be a trump card against the SSPX which insists on recognizing a pope but rejecting his actions.  The SSPX needs to provide some more clarity on that issue.  

    Fr. Z is just whistling in the wind as far as the sedevacantists are concerned because the papacy has been vacant since 1958.

    Fr. Z is a follower of the novus ordo and it's his job to explain away the inconsistencies and flaggrant heresies spouted by the novus ordo.  Vatican II created a new church that needs to be identified as either the Concilliar Church or the Montini Church - I prefer the second title.  

    Take Fr. Z seriously at your own spiritual peril.  



    Offline Domitilla

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 12:01:07 PM »
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  • It would be interesting to have Fr. Z produce his own faculties.  He lives in an outer suburb of the Twin Cities, MN; he does not celebrate Mass on a regular basis in or around the Twin Cities.  His main activity (and possibly his only one) is publishing a blog which chronicles his travels; his food and wine preferences; and his thoroughly Novus Ordo opinions.  Who cares?

    Offline PatrickG

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #6 on: May 17, 2013, 12:04:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Fr. Z thinks he holds a trump card.  And that trump card is "faculties" and, what do you know, it's in the 1983 Code of Canon Law.  It was the promulgation of this new code of cannon law that pushed Archbishoop LeFebrvre to start the decision process to consecrate the bishops.  

    That's beside the point.  

    The Code of Canon Law 1983 is a product of the Concilliar Church.

    Fr. Z thinks he holds a trump card.  And he's acting like there was no seismic shift theologically, ecclesiologically and in every day devotion with Vatican II.  Fr. Z is acting like there was no rupture in the church.  

    Fr Z thinks the lack of faculties is a trump card and against it we have no defense.  

    He has a point because it just might be a trump card against the SSPX which insists on recognizing a pope but rejecting his actions.  The SSPX needs to provide some more clarity on that issue.  

    Fr. Z is just whistling in the wind as far as the sedevacantists are concerned because the papacy has been vacant since 1958.

    Fr. Z is a follower of the novus ordo and it's his job to explain away the inconsistencies and flaggrant heresies spouted by the novus ordo.  Vatican II created a new church that needs to be identified as either the Concilliar Church or the Montini Church - I prefer the second title.  

    Take Fr. Z seriously at your own spiritual peril.  


    Bluntly, I think Father Z. is talking complete and utter nonsense regarding the Society. The confession and absolution of the Society and Resistance priests I have never doubted - and I hold that the position of the Resistance is my own and the correct one. As you say, do not take the chap seriously.
    Old-fashioned is good, modern is suicidal.
    - Bishop Richard N. Williamson.

    Offline Matto

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #7 on: May 17, 2013, 12:32:26 PM »
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  • Does Father Z. think the Orthodox have valid confessions? I thought that because of their schism they did not have valid confessions except in danger of death.

    I like one thing about Father Z. He likes birds and posts videos and photos of pretty birds on his website.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #8 on: May 17, 2013, 01:07:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: ServusSpiritusSancti
    Fr. Z is the biggest neo-con.


    Neo-con translated = "zionist sympathizer"
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #9 on: May 17, 2013, 01:22:43 PM »
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  • Fr Z is an utter moron who fancies himself an expert. Bad combination
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Matto

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 01:24:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Fr Z is an utter moron

    Well, at least he is smart enough to prefer the Old Mass to the New. So I have to give him some credit.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 01:25:22 PM »
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  • Fr. Z is friend to all the compromisers - that's about the best I have to say.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 01:38:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Fr Z is an utter moron

    Well, at least he is smart enough to prefer the Old Mass to the New. So I have to give him some credit.


    As a dear friend said, you don't prefer your wife to a whore. The one, you devote yourself to and the other you have nothing to do with.

    Fr z thinks his wife is fine and dandy, good for showing off and has sentimental value.  Then he defends his whore and attacks those who challenge her legitimacy and character

    No credit is due to thar

    From phone
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 02:32:58 PM »
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  • Who cares about Father Z???

    Maybe he should be blogging about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity among his peers who support same sex marriage.


    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Fr. Z Obsessed With Invalidating SSPX Confessions
    « Reply #14 on: May 19, 2013, 10:56:03 PM »
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  • Mr. Z is a neo-cath shill. Just because he wears the proper vestments doesn't make him a traditionalist by any stretch. And considering he was "ordained" in the new rite, he probably can't absolve anyone himself, so he's one to talk.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine