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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Mr G on January 29, 2018, 03:15:33 PM

Title: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Mr G on January 29, 2018, 03:15:33 PM
FYI: From Fr. Robinson.

What do you suppose this will lead to? :furtive:


Dear friends,
    I am very happy to announce the release of my book The Realist Guide to Religion and Science. Please visit the official website (http://therealistguide.com/) for the book and spread the word!
-- In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,

Fr. Paul A. Robinson

Holy Cross Seminary

http://www.holycrossseminary.com (http://www.holycrossseminary.com/)


https://therealistguide.com/ (https://therealistguide.com/)

Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Incredulous on January 29, 2018, 05:24:01 PM


I want to buy Father Robinson's magnum opus to simply understand how a person's soul is implicitly baptized?

Father, an engineer/priest/theologian, is most qualified to explain the nuances of the SSPX's mystical belief systems.
For example, That a Catholic baptism is universally inscribed in every person's heart. 
(See the SSPX's "Open Letter to Confused Catholics", page 74).

Father's discourse must go beyond the epistemological and metaphysical truths which are the basis of Aristotelian-Thomistic thought ?  For example, Aristotle's De Anima, explained that a Soul is created from three substances (Matter, Form and the Compound).  A little later, Our Lord demonstrated how Original Sin was removed from Souls by the Sacrament of Baptism, using H20 matter.

Fast forward 2,000 years and most people are just too uneducated or dumbed-down to understand Karl Rahner's explanation of implicit, universal baptisms?  

I mean, how are our souls implicitly cleaned ?  Does a little Angel come in to do the work?

But not to worry tradcats.
Now we have a reality based, "Theological Science-guy".

An SSPX endorsed priest who can give us the technical details of how our Souls are implicitly cleansed of Original Sin.  




Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: wallflower on January 29, 2018, 07:10:51 PM
I love this kind of thing. Although I appreciate their efforts, I also kind of hate that Protestants seem more vigorous in defending the Bible and Christianity against pseudo-scientists than Catholics are. I don't care about SSPX vs Rome in this. If he is on-point I will happily support the effort and continue to pray that more Catholics get on board to peel away the false mask of "scientific" theories.
The answers to these questions build an incredibly important natural base for the supernatural Faith in the minds of our children. 
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Jaynek on January 30, 2018, 08:52:25 AM
I love this kind of thing. Although I appreciate their efforts, I also kind of hate that Protestants seem more vigorous in defending the Bible and Christianity against pseudo-scientists than Catholics are. I don't care about SSPX vs Rome in this. If he is on-point I will happily support the effort and continue to pray that more Catholics get on board to peel away the false mask of "scientific" theories.
The answers to these questions build an incredibly important natural base for the supernatural Faith in the minds of our children.
That was my reaction to the description too.  It sounds like it could be used for high school level.  
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cathman7 on January 30, 2018, 11:06:30 AM
I am absolutely not attacking a book I have not even read yet! This seems like a remarkable book and for that I applaud Fr. Robinson. However why can't the SSPX even mention that he entered a SSPX seminary? I guess it is obvious to most but it seems rather silly to omit this. 

Again, I am not trying to nit-pick but found this point strange. 

https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science

FR. PAUL ROBINSON, A NATIVE OF KENTUCKY, USA, RECEIVED A MASTERS IN ENGINEERING MATHEMATICS AND COMPUTER SCIENCE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE. AFTER TWO YEARS IN THE FIELD, HE ENTERED A ROMAN CATHOLIC SEMINARY TO DISCERN HIS VOCATION. SINCE HIS ORDINATION IN 2006, HE HAS BEEN TEACHING THOMISTIC PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY. 
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 30, 2018, 11:14:35 AM
The book didn't mention 'sspx seminary' because the sspx leadership wants to get rid of the 'us' vs 'them' mentality.  Therefore a catholic seminary is a catholic seminary, whether it's sspx, fssp, novus ordo, etc.

Surely this is another sign that step-by-step, +Fellay is conditioning the faithful for a "deal".  May God have mercy on his soul!
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cathman7 on January 30, 2018, 11:18:54 AM
A friend of mine said: 


Quote
Perhaps given the subject matter they are looking to reach a larger audience who otherwise might instantly dismiss the work if they saw the words "SSPX". I'm not instantly convinced they is anything wrong here and am trying to give benefit of the doubt.
I may buy the book. 
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 30, 2018, 11:22:23 AM
It's also possible that mention of the sspx is left out due to the desire to spread the book by the author, who probably feels that this label would be rejected by the FSSP and other 'new church' conservatives, since new-rome tells everyone that the sspx is in schism.

Either way, I think one should be proud of the sspx and not hide behind generic statements in order to promote a book. 
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Incredulous on January 30, 2018, 12:11:20 PM
I am absolutely not attacking a book I have not even read yet! This seems like a remarkable book and for that I applaud Fr. Robinson. However why can't the SSPX even mention that he entered a SSPX seminary? I guess it is obvious to most but it seems rather silly to omit this.

Again, I am not trying to nit-pick but found this point strange.

https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science

FR. PAUL ROBINSON, A NATIVE OF KENTUCKY, USA, RECEIVED A MASTERS IN ENGINEERING MATHEMATICS AND COMPUTER SCIENCE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE. AFTER TWO YEARS IN THE FIELD, HE ENTERED A ROMAN CATHOLIC SEMINARY TO DISCERN HIS VOCATION. SINCE HIS ORDINATION IN 2006, HE HAS BEEN TEACHING THOMISTIC PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY.


It's another part of the SSPX's re-branding.  
With prelature relations, they're giving-up +ABL's Society label and identifying as generic "Roman Catholics".

On the surface, Father's book appears meritorious, but how could you ever trust a homegrown SSPX theologian?
A man who's been carrying political water for Menzingen?  

For example, when the Menzingen brotherhood doesn't want to believe in something non-mainstream like Geocentrism, they shut it down.  Menzingen's party line is Heliocentrism. We know this because Fr. Riccomini once advised the Phoenix faithful couldn't watch the movie "The Principle" at the priory because it was much too controversial.

Before endorsing John Salza, as an SSPX 3rd party propagandist, Menzingen strongly encouraged him to stop promoting geocentrism from his website.  He complied.

Without reading his book, we know Father Robinson lacks credibility as a Catholic professor for two reasons:

1. By condoning Bp. Fellay's "Rahnerite" Baptism theology (4 baptisms).
2. His twisted, assessment of +ABL's resistance history, to provide Menzingen cover for their newChurch prelature.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: wallflower on January 30, 2018, 04:25:12 PM
For example, when the Menzingen brotherhood doesn't want to believe in something non-mainstream like Geocentrism, they shut it down.  Menzingen's party line is Heliocentrism. We know this because Fr. Riccomini once advised the Phoenix faithful couldn't watch the movie "The Principle" at the priory because it was much too controversial.

Before endorsing John Salza, as an SSPX 3rd party propagandist, Menzingen strongly encouraged him to stop promoting geocentrism from his website.  He complied.

I wondered what stance they had on this, if any. Too bad. You are sure it's from the top and it isn't individual priests imposing their preferences? Because I've heard there are SSPX priests who tend towards geocentrism, or at least its discussion. Are they told to keep it to themselves I wonder?

Fr Robinson stresses in his article that there is plenty of room for private opinions as long as they do not undermine supernatural truths, reason or science. You'd think geocentrism falls in this category.

I agree that not mentioning SSPX is part of rebranding. They've started omitting it even on church signs, haven't they? It's yet another way of blending in and losing the special character that they (used to) stand for.

Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Merry on January 30, 2018, 06:33:43 PM
Fr. Robinson has lost his faith.  He is now a company man. This is too sad a distracting a thing - so who cares what he has to say at this point about anything else.  
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Mr G on January 31, 2018, 08:17:12 AM
For those who want to meet Fr. Robinson, come to St. Mary's on Feb. 18

http://www.kschristianathleticassociation.org/public/genie/1116/school/15/date/2018-02-18/view/week/ (http://www.kschristianathleticassociation.org/public/genie/1116/school/15/date/2018-02-18/view/week/)

7:00pm - 8:00pmParish Conferences (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/fr-robinson's-new-book-'the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science'/javascript:void(0);)McCabe Theater location
"The Realist Guide to Religion and Science" ~ Talk by Fr. Paul Robinson~ Father will be discussing his book and how it will address such questi...
I sure he would love to answer all your questions ;)
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 31, 2018, 09:01:59 AM
FR. PAUL ROBINSON, ....RECEIVED A MASTERS IN ENGINEERING MATHEMATICS AND COMPUTER SCIENCE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE. .....TWO YEARS IN THE FIELD
What does this degree have to do with science? Two years in the field unemployed, teaching math in a public school, fixing computers? The field is where all the theories you've learned meet reality.

"In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a King".
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Incredulous on January 31, 2018, 09:28:46 AM
For those who want to meet Fr. Robinson, come to St. Mary's on Feb. 18

http://www.kschristianathleticassociation.org/public/genie/1116/school/15/date/2018-02-18/view/week/ (http://www.kschristianathleticassociation.org/public/genie/1116/school/15/date/2018-02-18/view/week/)

7:00pm - 8:00pmParish Conferences (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/fr-robinson's-new-book-'the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science'/javascript:void(0);)McCabe Theater location
"The Realist Guide to Religion and Science" ~ Talk by Fr. Paul Robinson~ Father will be discussing his book and how it will address such questi...
I sure he would love to answer all your questions ;)

I hope someone will ask his permission to be interviewed about those two glaring issues (4, baptisms and Heliocentrism) and record his responses on their smartphone.  Odds are he will decline to go on record.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Ekim on February 19, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
Not only does it not say “”SSPX Seminary”, it doesn’t even say “Father” on the cover!

Definitely trying to be intentionally vague to sell more books....

What happened to the day when the SSPX proclaimed the truth loud and proud and wore their “Fr.” And “SSPX” as a badge of honor regardless if people purchased a particular book.

So sad!
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Fanny on February 19, 2018, 10:06:17 PM
He's from KY.  Nope.  I'm done.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 21, 2018, 05:14:45 AM

Sorry Mr G I did not see that you had posted this subject earlier. Accordingly I will repost my initial reaction to the idea that any book using the BIG BANG as a creative act is reintroducing many of the NOW hidden Pythagorean heresies the Church Fathers spent centuries trying to eliminate. I began with the following:

Interview with Fr. Paul Robinson

Fr. Paul Robinson, a native of Kentucky, received a Masters in Engineering Mathematics and Computer Science from the University of Louisville. After two years in the field, he entered a Roman Catholic seminary to discern his vocation. Since his ordination in 2006, he has been teaching Thomistic philosophy and theology.

What about science?
'In fact, I am harder on modern scientists than I am on Islam and Luther, because some of them take irrationality to its furthest extreme. For instance, 20th century science provided solid, empirical evidence that our universe began with a huge burst of energy 13.7 billion years ago. This put atheist scientists in a terrible dilemma, because they had to admit that our universe, along with space and time, had a beginning. That would seem to make it obvious that an incredibly powerful cause had to be at the origin of our universe.'


Let me begin with the above and we will get on to Fr Robinson's Einstein later. Needless to say, Father feels safe in the company of Pope Pius XII who on November 22, 1951 in a speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, called 'The Proofs for the Existence of God in the Light of Modern Natural Science.'

44. It is undeniable that when a mind enlightened and enriched with modern scientific knowledge weighs this problem calmly, it feels drawn to break through the circle of completely independent or autochthonous matter, whether uncreated or self-created, and to ascend to a creating Spirit. With the same clear and critical look with which it examines and passes judgment on facts, it perceives and recognizes the work of creative omnipotence, whose power, set in motion by the mighty “Fiat” pronounced billions of years ago by the Creating Spirit, spread out over the universe, calling into existence with a gesture of generous love matter bursting with energy. In fact, it would seem that present-day science, with one sweeping step back across millions of centuries, has succeeded in bearing witness to that primordial “Fiat lux” uttered at the moment when, along with matter, there burst forth from nothing a sea of light and radiation, while the particles of chemical elements split and formed into millions of galaxies.’

'20th century science provided solid, empirical evidence that our universe began with a huge burst of energy 13.7 billion years ago,' which must be the 'proofs in the light of modern science' according to Pope Pius XII.

So what 'proofs' are these two men basing the Catholic Creator on? Why Hubble's 1912 red-shifts in starlight that science USED to prove the universe is expanding. Now if we forget many scientists who disputed this assumption (such as can be found in Professor Roberrt Gentry's Earth's Tiny Mystery.) that red-shifts do not necessarily show an expanding universe in  Fr Robinson's 'solid empirical evidence' for a Big Bang Creation, I bet both Pius XII and Fr Robinson did not know that in Copernicus's book De Revolutionibus he wrote that if God created a geocentric universe with the universe turning around the earth like a swing ride then we would find an expanding universe.

In other words there is no solid evidence for any Big Bang. Now let us see the essence of a Big Bang Creator as explained by Professor Marcello Pera.

‘Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that we can refer “not improperly” to the initial singularity [the Big Bang] as an act of creation. What conclusions can we draw from it? That a Creator exists? Suppose still, for the sake of argument, that this, too, is conceded. The problem now is twofold. Is this creator theologically relevant? Can this creator serve the purpose of faith?
     My answer to the first question is decidedly negative. A creator proved by [Big Bang] cosmology is a cosmological agent that has none of the properties a believer attributes to God. Even supposing one can consistently say the cosmological creator is beyond space and time, this creature cannot be understood as a person or as the Word made flesh or as the Son of God come down to the world in order to save mankind. Pascal rightly referred to this latter Creator as the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not of philosophers and scientists. To believe that cosmology proves the existence of a creator and then to attribute to this creator the properties of the Creation as a person is to make an illegitimate inference, to commit a category fallacy. My answer to the second question is also negative. Suppose we can grant what my answer to the first question intends to deny. That is, suppose we can understand the God of [Big Bang] cosmologists as the God of theologians and believers. Such a God cannot (and should not) serve the purpose of faith, because, being a God proved by cosmology he [or it] should be at the mercy of cosmology. Like any other scientific discipline that, to use Pope John Paul II’s words, proceeds with “methodological seriousness,” cosmology is always revisable. It might then happen that a creator proved on the basis of a theory will be refuted when that theory is refuted. Can the God of believers be exposed to the risk of such an inconsistent enterprise as science?’[1] (http://file///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)


[1] (http://file///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1) Marcello Pera: The god of theologians and the god of astronomers, as found in The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, Cambridge University Press, 1998, pp.378, 379.

MORE LATER.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2018, 02:06:02 PM
Pope Francis and the God of Cosmologists and Evolutionists, now shared by Fr Robinson and Americam SSPX.
 
‘Vatican City, 27 October 2014 (VIS) – This morning the Holy Father attended the plenary session of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences held in the Casina Pio IV, during which he inaugurated a bust of Pope emeritus Benedict XVI, whom he described as “a great Pope. Great for the strength and penetration of his intelligence, great for his important contribution to theology, great for his love of the Church and of human beings, great for his virtue and religiosity”. He recalled that Benedict XVI was the first to invite a president of this Academy to participate in the Synod on new evangelisation, “aware of the importance of science in modern culture”. Pope Francis chose not to focus on the complex issue of the evolution of nature, the theme the Academy will consider during this session, emphasising however that “God and Christ walk with us and are also present in nature”. “When we read in Genesis the account of Creation,” Pope Francis said, “we risk imagining God as a magus, with a magic wand able to make everything. But it is not so. He created beings and allowed them to develop according to the internal laws that He gave to each one, so that they were able to develop and to arrive and their fullness of being. He gave autonomy to the beings of the Universe at the same time at which he assured them of his continuous presence, giving being to every reality. And so creation continued for centuries and centuries, millennia and millennia, until it became which we know today, precisely because God is not a demiurge or a conjurer, but the Creator who gives being to all things. The beginning of the world is not the work of chaos that owes its origin to another, but derives directly from a supreme Origin that creates out of love. The Big Bang, which nowadays is posited as the origin of the world, does not contradict the divine act of creating, but rather requires it. The evolution of nature does not contrast with the notion of Creation, as evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve.”’ --- Vatican Info Office.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God is not a magician, waving a magic wand creating things,’ says Pope Francis and like-minded theistic evolutionists. Indeed He is not, for magicians are full of tricks and illusions. God does not need a magic wand; He simply created things immediately, complete according to its kind. Nevertheless, the comparison suggests that God did not, could not, create things complete and in working order. But Genesis tells us that is exactly what God did, one creation after another in a certain order, each depending on the former, over six days in which no development was at all necessary.
    We see then, the papacy of the Catholic Church over the last 300 years or so, have lost all faith in revelation and all attempts in the past to protect the flock from false philosophy as was/is their duty. Now if an angel from heaven were to appear before me and tell me to believe these popes I would tell that angel to go back to Hell. God gave me intelligence, the means to examine and reason. I have done that and am satisfied their moving-earth/fixed sun solar system has never falsified the decree of Pope Paul V in 1616.

(1) “That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,” was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical, inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by the Fathers and theologians.”

Nor did geologists ever prove the earth is millions of years old according to rock strata, an age falsified by geologist Guy Berthault who showed they were ignorant as to how strata was/is laid down. Unable to open their mouths in protest, totally unable to protect the Flock from false philosophy because of the 'embarrassment' of the Galileo U-turn, they let the Roman Martyrology fall into the same pit of myths as the biblical revelation on geocentrism. And so, when their masters in science said everything evolved, human PRIDE took over once again and like the heresy of heliocentrism they INVENTED a way out of biblical revelation as they did with the 1616 decree, allowing God to overcome the impossible gaps of evolution, God kept the evolving bits working until completed. Absolutely pathetic. But my aren't they popular among all the atheists in the Pontifical academy of Sciences.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 24, 2018, 08:31:32 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgAMw0i_TLA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgAMw0i_TLA)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt3GYJqRtKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt3GYJqRtKI)
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 25, 2018, 11:06:28 AM

Here is the latest Kolbe article on creation. These are the Catholic creationists Fr Robinson SSPX in his comments trying to support a Big Bang Genesis considers to be fundamentalist Protestants:

 
Dear Friends of the Kolbe Center,
Pax Christi!
One of the many disturbing signs of "diabolical disorientation"--to use Sister Lucy of Fatima's phrase--within the contemporary Catholic community is the attempt by so many Catholic theologians to press the Angelic Doctor, St. Thomas Aquinas, into service as a proto-theistic evolutionist.  In his paper presented at our recent symposium (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001TDF-10pAlAeLs5ZpOMccjDvk2JTTolRm-SEJzjuuw3uA19N4bO10FbqMTbUjo2QohsyOOfraMsg91pFm_7NGVJXHss2p_3S0qCCaoON8aBaZZ7oed7Zo-itbaFr-ZP5bLaaVw9yLla3knKswPmt1XU1ln_jhenKdiMOsrb2RfCvY5peRpLDcA_gjWBL-f0LNz8CHz1SoZbvaTZiOQLYlx3zUtB0rYSwRMXxn0RHRCXj7gjekU4zOwiTNGvFiodVZ-6-DBGUbW8u_l4RoEc0ZGKs7egUnEnEQ&c=MIBgq6ghIagrVflozHlHu8w1dL9tn69_fGXbtIlIhS0I3pL-I1kNvQ==&ch=SkLTAkVJ9tsf2P_HjfCwo-G8a7C9rKfAjL5bBUabcjRF4LKMq5pUQQ==) in Rome on the special creation of Adam and Eve as the foundation of the Church's teaching on Holy Marriage, Fr. Thomas Crean, O.P., beautifully demonstrates the absurdity of this perverse abuse of the Angelic Doctor's writings.  I cannot reproduce the whole article in this newsletter, and I hope that you will read the entire paper on the Kolbe website here (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001TDF-10pAlAeLs5ZpOMccjDvk2JTTolRm-SEJzjuuw3uA19N4bO10FbqMTbUjo2QojfwEKSKjw2e1uyzSSHP7AwwocIOy66lqW7eIxj3h34K8jiAxxWO_5dgta7cee829PzuUdzAmtpg52fkQQw_kIcHpiFYOTPwURHI2MqMhuPsuwXRLNclIqNZc6qbsFMk9Ja71za1jPl0T1iBbAW9-clti395xU_tZJFF_Eq6ZWze2HkiMe0J-clnCmyHpC92cBLIY5ifRuFo=&c=MIBgq6ghIagrVflozHlHu8w1dL9tn69_fGXbtIlIhS0I3pL-I1kNvQ==&ch=SkLTAkVJ9tsf2P_HjfCwo-G8a7C9rKfAjL5bBUabcjRF4LKMq5pUQQ==) (with all of the footnotes), but I do want to highlight a few of the main truths contained in the paper. 
In the first place, Fr. Crean underscores the fact that St. Thomas always treats Genesis 1-11 as true history. He writes:
In discussing the question of whether paradise, as described in the second chapter of the book of Genesis, was a geographical place or simply an allegory of a spiritual truth, St Thomas Aquinas makes the following observation and rule:
Those things which are said in Scripture about Paradise, are put forward in the style of a historical narrative; but whenever Scripture puts something forward in this way, the historical truth must be retained as the basis, and spiritual interpretations built upon it (STh 1a 102, 1).
(http://files.constantcontact.com/99e23de0101/fbca042e-bdc6-4df7-8c45-ead6b6b8fe73.jpg) 
Indeed, it is apparent from the Angelic Doctor's treatment of Genesis, that everything stated by Moses must be accepted, as written, on God's authority, including all of those things that are above nature, i.e., supernatural.  As St. Thomas explains in the Summa:
in all the statements that we make, we must follow the nature of things, except when things which are above nature have been communicated to us on the authority of God (STh 1a 99, 1).
This is a fundamental principle often violated by so-called "Thomistic evolutionists," since they often attempt to give natural explanations for things that the sacred history of Genesis tells us on God's authority are or were "above nature."  For example, Thomistic evolutionists like to explain the origin of the human body as the result of a natural process of biological evolution through mutation and natural selection over hundreds of millions of years. But this would be anathema to the Angelic Doctor!  Indeed, as Fr. Crean explains, St. Thomas firmly held that Adam and Eve were formed immediately and supernaturally by God, body and soul.
That the formation of our first parents was a work performed immediately by God, and outside the course of nature, is for the angelic doctor a matter both of revelation and of reason. It is a matter of revelation since the book of Genesis plainly presents God as forming a man from the slime or dust of the earth, and a woman from the rib or side of the man. He also quotes Ecclesiasticus 17: "God created man out of the earth (Deus de terra creavit hominem)." In his commentary on St Paul's epistle to the Romans, he remarks that one of the ways in which Adam was a "type" of Christ, is that just as Adam's body was formed without any sɛҳuąƖ activity, so Our Lord's body was formed from a Virgin.
(http://files.constantcontact.com/99e23de0101/313b7288-3c58-4d9b-9c58-77ea8ed77b70.jpg) 
Fr. Crean emphasizes that the immediate formation of the bodies of our first parents--in total contradiction to the Thomistic evolutionists--was completely supernatural.  
it is also, for St Thomas, a rational necessity that the bodies of our first parents were formed immediately by God, that is to say, miraculously (STh 1a 91, 2). No created power sufficed for the first formation of the human body. The angels cannot transform one material thing, for example dust, into another of a different nature, for example a human body; nor does the material world as a whole have the power to cause what he calls "a perfect animal" to exist, except as generated by other animals of the same species. The expression "perfect animal" here does not refer specifically to man; it is a technical phrase deriving from Aristotle, used to refer to an animal with all the senses and with the power of locomotion. Thus, a cat and a dog are perfect animals in this sense. Aquinas does not argue for the impossibility of a perfect animal being generated by the powers of nature except from parents of the same species; he seems to take it as an obvious truth of experience.  It is true that on St Thomas's general, metaphysical principles, it would be possible for God in His absolute power to use one animal as a mere instrument to generate another of a different species, for example miraculously to cause a cat to generate a dog; but such an act would be pointless and therefore contrary to what is called God's ordered power, that is, His power as considered in conjunction with His wisdom. In any case, as already said, Aquinas takes the immediate formation of the bodies of our first parents to be a truth plainly taught by Scripture.
(http://files.constantcontact.com/99e23de0101/76175c05-294a-4855-9528-b36a8abb444d.jpg) 
Needless to say, the Angelic Doctor's teaching on "perfect animals" flatly contradicts the conjectures of the theistic evolutionists, since it holds that only special creation by God could have produced the first of each kind of animal with senses and locomotion, creatures which, according to evolutionary mythology, evolved through mutation and natural selection from lower life-forms.
Finally, most theistic evolutionists reinforce the mythology of "primitive" man and of "progress" that conditions Catholic youth to hold the past and the Tradition of the Church in contempt by teaching that the first human beings were simple creatures who "fell up into consciousness" after the final mutation that prepared their primate bodies-a philosophical absurdity!-to receive a human soul.  However, St. Thomas follows all of the Fathers of the Church in teaching that Adam and Eve were created in a state of physical and mental perfection, and in an exalted state of holiness:
Their contemplation was higher than ours, and by means of it, they drew nearer to God than we do and so could in a clear way know more things about divine actions and mysteries than we can. For this reason, there was not in them a faith by which God is sought as being absent, in the way that He is sought by us. For He was more present to them by the light of wisdom than He is to us, even though He was not present to them as He is to the blessed through the light of glory (STh, 2a2ae 5, 1 ad 1).
(http://files.constantcontact.com/99e23de0101/0cd3dc30-d922-4351-9d93-5b64943c155d.png) 
In our book I Have Spoken to You from Heaven (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001TDF-10pAlAeLs5ZpOMccjDvk2JTTolRm-SEJzjuuw3uA19N4bO10FbqMTbUjo2Qo5Zwwh0PvAynfDjpJ2CFnS-FWL1HDhJOrSJJAKALSe51Ahm7Us1vzJwZ8q9cNMThBgbKH7wZrFYHzdANs-wji6ZRsQpVc4l85i2aKDi6l7m1JtZT_zyD0N4BgAXkUv1kEH1MJmS5s6NpJ0iq1FSAttrpZ7BGf3EesdLWGrqYVDlWWddIVB75ueUuwYS4NrxFrs-tbU7BPDJVnkpEObDcjFd1ac-4XhPfgTOnVZzQRjzDQB-52YIBlNtpw7cHbatb6_ID031_cDhIGnZQgbBvMOg==&c=MIBgq6ghIagrVflozHlHu8w1dL9tn69_fGXbtIlIhS0I3pL-I1kNvQ==&ch=SkLTAkVJ9tsf2P_HjfCwo-G8a7C9rKfAjL5bBUabcjRF4LKMq5pUQQ==), we demonstrate that the Angelic Doctor's fidelity to the literal historical of truth Genesis 1-11 extends even to the meaning of "day" in Genesis One, for in the section on Creation in the Summa Theologica, towards the end of his years as a theological writer, St. Thomas clearly teaches that
The words "one day" are used when day is first instituted, to denote that one day is made up of twenty-four hours. Hence, by mentioning "one," the measure of a natural day is fixed. (STh, Ia q. 74 a. 3).
I hope and pray that all readers of this newsletter will read Fr. Crean's excellent paper in its entirety and be prepared to defend St. Thomas against any and all attempts to press him into service on behalf of theistic evolution!
Yours in Christ through the Immaculata,
Hugh Owen
P.S. Our annual regional leaders retreat will be held at Conception Seminary in Conception, Missouri, from June 10-16.  The retreat equips attendees to be regional leaders who can advance the mission of the Kolbe Center in their local areas.  The retreat is open to adults, to teenagers 16 years of age or older with their parents' permission, and to families with children.  Activities will be organized for the children every morning except Sunday throughout the retreat. 
P.P.S. Through the generosity of friends all over the world we have raised the money that we need to produce the DVD series "Foundations Restored."  However, we now recognize that we will need to raise additional funds to market this tremendous product.  If you have not made a donation to support our DVD project, please prayerfully consider going to the Kolbe home page (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001TDF-10pAlAeLs5ZpOMccjDvk2JTTolRm-SEJzjuuw3uA19N4bO10FQbJ0urEjGkG0lFENdpTSBNujS4IQW-LzCR9K-1GQRa2CD-0V6cyFbqzhKO3VI1u8BCuVFYaaYl7LQL5nGlRvyRDbJ9cQ_HyBncifDTZg2fM5xTjDmIRmrPIWTh3PeEz0w==&c=MIBgq6ghIagrVflozHlHu8w1dL9tn69_fGXbtIlIhS0I3pL-I1kNvQ==&ch=SkLTAkVJ9tsf2P_HjfCwo-G8a7C9rKfAjL5bBUabcjRF4LKMq5pUQQ==) and making a gift today. If you want your gift to be used only for marketing the DVD series, please send me an email and let me know. 
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 25, 2018, 12:29:39 PM
Foreword to Fr Robinson's book.

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf (https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf)


It seems Fr Robinson  found inspiration in the conciliar popes, Paul VI. John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Pope Francis and Fr Stanley Jaki.

Fr Jaki was a Benedictine priest and distinguished Professor of Physics at Seton Hall University, New Jersey since 1975, indoctrinating his students in a heliocentric cosmology and natural evolution of one sort or another. For his work in synthesising Catholic faith with modern scientism Fr Jaki was awarded The Templeton Prize in 1987, ‘for furthering understanding of science and religion’ they say; a prize now valued at £1,000,000 per annum, winnable only by those who assert theistic heliocentrism and theistic evolutionism of course.

John Paul II said he loved Einstein's relativity but that this did not take from Galileo's heliocentrism. What a contradiction. He also told the flock there are proofs for heliocentrism and that the Fathers and popes who upheld geocentrism were ignorants.

In 1981, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (b.1927) later elected Pope Benedict XVI (2005-15), attempted a creation catechesis for adults in four Lenten homilies in the cathedral of Munich, and later published in a book called In the Beginning.[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1) The reason for this subject matter, he wrote, was that the creation account is noticeably and nearly completely absent from Catholic catechesis, preaching and even theology. What he wanted to do was show that the Genesis account of creation in the first book of Scripture could indeed be interpreted in harmony with modern ‘science,’ a task first taken on by Galileo. By doing so, Joseph Ratzinger hoped to give back to Genesis a credibility that would please Catholics of today. Totally ignoring the absurdity of all evolutionary theories that we have discussed earlier in this tome, the Cardinal, by way of his ‘newspeak,’ with its ambiguous euphemistic language, tries to get us to believe that the ‘poetry’ of Genesis can be understood to agree with the exact same theories that ‘science’ invented, theories that are known to have convinced millions there is no God, no need for a God when trying to understand the universe and all in it.


[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1) Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: In The beginning, CFI Bath Press, UK.

Pope francis would baptise a MARTIAN if he asked.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Smedley Butler on February 25, 2018, 01:06:16 PM
If Robinson's book espouses heliocentrism and some sort of evolution,  he is teaching heresy and the Society is lost.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Matthew on February 25, 2018, 01:22:04 PM
The book didn't mention 'sspx seminary' because the sspx leadership wants to get rid of the 'us' vs 'them' mentality.  Therefore a catholic seminary is a catholic seminary, whether it's sspx, fssp, novus ordo, etc.

Surely this is another sign that step-by-step, +Fellay is conditioning the faithful for a "deal".  May God have mercy on his soul!

*sigh* more proof that the SSPX has lost it.

They did the same thing with some of their recent chapels. They don't want or claim the "Traditional" label anymore.

Fine, I won't attend their Masses then, since I'm looking for a Traditional Catholic chapel -- with a capital T!
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Matthew on February 25, 2018, 01:43:13 PM
If Robinson's book espouses heliocentrism and some sort of evolution,  he is teaching heresy and the Society is lost.

The goodness of the SSPX doesn't hang upon the rectitude of one SSPX priest's doctrine. 
The SSPX is lost either way.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cathman7 on February 25, 2018, 02:52:09 PM
Matthew, I think you posted this in the wrong place. I'll post it here: 

Sean Johnson chimes in:

Friends-

Fr. Paul Robinson (SSPX) has recently written a book titled "The Realist Guide for Religion and Science," for which some information can be gleaned from this website promoting the book:

https://therealistguide.com/ (https://therealistguide.com/) 

On the following link, you can read an unbelievable 2-page Foreword, which seems to partially rehabilitate JPII, BXVI, Francis, and the deceased modernist Fr. Stanley Jaki as "moderate realists."

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf (https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf) 

Never mind that John Paul II espoused phenomenology (i.e., Objective truths exist, but human reason cannot access them, only their various manifestations, or "noumena.");

Never mind that BXVI was primarily a Hegelian.

Never mind that Francis (Francis!) is completely a-systemic, and the Foreword quotes him thusly: 

Quote
Quote
"Pope Francis has also affirmed that realities are more important than ideas, and this flows from the doctrine of the Incarnation."

Let that quote, coming from an SSPX-promoted book, sink in: "Realities are more important than ideas."

This is the pollution coming from Bishop Fellay's ralliement: A practical accord (i.e., a reality) is more important than doctrine (i.e., ideas).

SSPX priests are being infected by their Superior General, and Fr. Robinson very obviously wanted to show the Vatican just how open the new SSPX is to conciliarist modernism.

And the deceased Fr. Stanley Jaki (whose organization has written this Foreword for Fr. Robinson)?  

A thorough modernist, for whom science was superior to religion, having made many statements which implicitly deny the possibility of true miracles, such as this one regarding the miracle of the sun at Fatima:

Quote
Quote
"According to St. Thomas Aquinas a miracle in the strict sense is 'something done outside the order of the entire created universe.' According to Jaki, the fact that the event occurred and still inspires the faithful to this day is the greater miracle."  http://www.catholicstand.com/fr-stanley-jaki-on-the-fatima-miracle/ (http://www.catholicstand.com/fr-stanley-jaki-on-the-fatima-miracle/) 

And in Jaki's introduction to the English-language translation of Abbe Augustin Barruel's masterpiece "Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism" (which Weishaupt's conspiracy against altar, throne, and society), he makes this bewildering statement: 

Quote
Quote
"The teaching of Thomas Aquinas and of Bellarmine, that the people were the ultimate source on earth of political authority and power, was not something that Barruel would fully appreciate." (p. xiv)

Some of you in this email are quite well read on St. Thomas Aquinas, and I should be extremely surprised if he ever taught such a thing!

Nonetheless, these are the people Fr. Robinson wants to promote his book: All of them conciliarist modernists to the man.

Obviously, the neo-SSPX is losing its mind (and its faith).

As time marches on, you can expect much more of this.  It is only natural.

Cardinal Cottier would be quite pleased to see the "progress" Menzingen is making towards conciliarism, as he once counseled regarding Campos: "What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts...we must be patient...gradually, we must expect additional steps, like concelebration...reconciliation carries within itself its own internal dynamism [self-censorship]."

Indeed it does, and Fr. Robinson's book is one more piece of evidence of that "dynamism."

Semper Idem,
Sean Johnson
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cathman7 on February 25, 2018, 03:07:20 PM
The Pope Francis reference seems to me a throwaway as if to tell the reader "Look we respect Pope Francis. We are not bad guys!" Ridiculous... Pope Francis -- let alone his predecessors -- are now firmly in the "realist" tradition? Nonsense! Are we to believe that Pope Francis is rooted in the "realist" (Aristotelian/Thomist) tradition? Didn't Bishop Fellay call him a "practical modernist"? Nevermind, he took that back or said that he was misunderstood. 

Another point -- if even a man like Fr. Paul Haffner (the man who wrote the foreword to Fr. Robinson's book) who has an extensive background and credentials from Rome then gives such glowing praise of the a work of a SSPX priest then does that not say a lot? It will show to the whole world that the SSPX can be intellectual and that they are not reactionaries who don't understand contemporary problems. Granted I have not read Fr. Robinson's book but I think it says a lot as to who is starting to approve of the SSPX's works. 

Here are Fr. Haffner's credentials: 

http://www.jeanhaffner.co.uk/index_htm_files/PaulCV.pdf (http://www.jeanhaffner.co.uk/index_htm_files/PaulCV.pdf)

As for Pope Francis again, read the following article: 

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/12/29/pope-urges-theologians-faithful-anchored-vatican-ii/

ROME - Affirming the critically important role of a “free and responsible” form of Catholic theology in the life of the church, Pope Francis called on theologians to “remain faithful and anchored” to the vision of Vatican II, as well as “immersed” in the instincts and concerns of ordinary people who’ve never taken “academic courses in theology.”
The Second Vatican Council (1962-65), Francis said, called the Church “to announce the Gospel in a new way, more consonant with a profoundly different culture and world,” and he added, “The Church must always refer itself to that event.
“That effort requires from the whole Church, and theologians in particular, to be implemented in a spirit of ‘creative fidelity’,” the pope said.
“For that reason, I ask you to continue to remain faithful and anchored, in your theological work, to the council and the capacity the Church demonstrated there to allow itself to be rejuvenated by the perennial novelty of the Gospel of Christ,” Francis said.
The pontiff’s remarks came during a noontime audience with roughly 100 members of the Associazione Teologica Italiana, the “Italian Theology Association,” the main professional society for Catholic theologians in Italy founded after Vatican II and this year celebrating its 50th anniversary.
Unlike his predecessor Pope emeritus Benedict XVI, who’s an accomplished theologian and took a keen personal interest in doctrinal matters, Francis positions himself more as a pastor, usually referring to theologians as “they” - for instance, speaking to a visiting group of Evangelical pastors in 2016, he said, “Theology is a very complicated subject, and we should let the theologians argue it out. In the meantime, we should love each other and learn to value people who are different than ourselves.”
Famously, during a visit to the Anglican Church of All Saints this past February, Francis quoted a quip from Patriarch Athenagoras of Constantinople to Pope Paul VI after their historic 1964 meeting: “We’ll bring about unity between us, and we’ll put all the theologians on an island so they can think about it!” (Francis even added he’d confirmed with Athenagoras’s successor, Patriarch Bartholomew I, that the line wasn’t just an urban legend.)
Given that background, Francis’s remarks to theological groups typically are seen as a fairly rare opportunity to better understand his doctrinal vision.
To begin with, Francis on Friday urged theologians to see their work not as an individual quest for insight, but as being rooted in a broader community.
“What theologians do can’t help but be a personal quest,” he said, “but one immersed in the widest theological community possible,” insisting that it’s not just an “accessory” to the ministry of theologians.
In particular, Francis asked theologians to pay careful attention to the insights of ordinary believers, what experts sometimes call “popular religiosity.”
“It’s in this living faith of the holy People of God that every theologian should feel immersed, and by which he or she should also feel sustained, transported and embraced,” the pope said.
The pope also called theologians to what he termed a “duty of the essential,” meaning finding ways to transmit the heart of the Christian faith in a culture today in which “distorted visions of the heart itself of the Gospel may insinuate themselves.”
Moving to specific challenges, Francis mentioned several areas in which he believe there’s need today for creative theological thought:
Francis applauded the Italian association for being made up of experts who don’t just “talk among themselves,” but who see themselves “at the service of the different churches and the Church.”
Pope Francis was greeted by the current president of the Associazione Teologica Italiana, Father Roberto Repole, who took the reins in 2011 from legendary Italian theologian Monsignor Piero Coda, who’s also a stalwart of the Focolare movement.
Headquartered at the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome, the Associazione Teologica Italiana brings together some 300 professors and writers in Catholic theology from every region in Italy.
In one sign of the times in Catholic theology, the current vice president of the association is Serena Noceti of the Theological Faculty of Central Italy in Florence, who also does training for the Archdiocese of Florence. It’s the first time a woman has held a position of leadership in Italy’s main theological guild.
The pope’s next public activity during the holiday season will come on Sunday, when he delivers his last Angelus address of the year at noon and then, in the evening, presides over the traditional vespers service in thanksgiving for the year coming to a close. On New Year’s Day, Francis will celebrate a Mass honoring Mary as the Mother of God, followed by another Angelus.
Traditionally, the Vatican’s holiday season is said to wrap up on Jan. 6 with the feast of the Epiphany, when Francis will once again lead a Mass in the morning followed by an Angelus. Informally, however, it’s usually considered to extend through the pope’s annual speech to the diplomatic corps accredited to the Vatican, in which the pontiff lays out his foreign policy priorities for the year to come.
This year, that speech to diplomats will be held on Monday, Jan. 8.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Matthew on February 25, 2018, 04:05:32 PM
From the mailbag --

1.) The cover is really, really bizarre. Looks like it would be from some kind of Protestant "Stories from the Other Side" book.

2.) The reviews (quotes) on the back might be even more nebulous and bizarre.

Quote
With this volume, the student will be able to safely navigate through the busy halls of philosophy.
FR JOSEPH AZIZE, PH.D.,
Honorary Associate, Dept of Studies in Religion, University of Sydney; Adjunct Associate Professor, University of Notre Dame, Australia.

The Realist Guide to Religion and Science is an historical and radically interdisciplinary work that provides clear answers to the intellectual confusion that besieges the modern world.
DENNIS BONNETTE Ph.D., Professor of Philosophy (Retired), Niagara University.

Fr Robinson knows that talking about the absoluteness of truth is not very pleasant to a modern scholar … but it is—de facto—a very scholarly thing to do. In my opinion, the author of the Realist Guide deserves praises for this attempt.
JAKUB TAYLOR, Ph.D. (Seoul National University), Professor Sungkyunkwan University, South Korea.

3.) It seems really odd that none of his own confreres would be included in the review quotes?

4.) The book gets published via an obscure Novus Ordo publishing company owned by a priest in the UK? Why wouldn't it be published via Angelus Press?

5.) Interesting note on the SSPX site...

Quote
In the foreword, Fr Haffner makes reference to the support of the Conciliar Popes for realism. In doing so, he assigns to Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II the titles of ‘Blessed’ and ‘Saint’ respectively. As Fr Robinson was not provided an opportunity to read the foreword before the publication of his book, he was not able to express his adherence to the position of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX) on the doubtful nature of the canonizations...Thus, the appearance of ‘Blessed’ and ‘Saint’ beside Paul VI and John Paul II in the foreword of The Realist Guide should in no way be construed as an acceptance by Fr Robinson of the modern canonizations or a deviation from his publicly expressed opinions on that subject or the position of the SSPX. 

Maybe it could be said that having one's book published by a Novus Ordo published wasn't, dare we say, prudent?
Or this could be just another trick of the Society's move toward conciliarism.
Have the foreword printed with references that are "not in line with SSPX position," then publish an obscure note about that on SSPX site which will last, at most, 2 days before it gets lost...

6.) Fr. Haffner, owner of Gracewing Publishing, has published this book (http://www.jeanhaffner.co.uk/books6.htm) ... which sounds highly questionable. Also, see his about section for his nice photo op with Papa Bergoglio admiring his work!


Anyway, suffice it to say I won't be reading it.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: SeanJohnson on February 25, 2018, 05:46:21 PM
Matthew, I think you posted this in the wrong place. I'll post it here:

Sean Johnson chimes in:

Friends-

Fr. Paul Robinson (SSPX) has recently written a book titled "The Realist Guide for Religion and Science," for which some information can be gleaned from this website promoting the book:

https://therealistguide.com/ (https://therealistguide.com/)

On the following link, you can read an unbelievable 2-page Foreword, which seems to partially rehabilitate JPII, BXVI, Francis, and the deceased modernist Fr. Stanley Jaki as "moderate realists."

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf (https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf)

Never mind that John Paul II espoused phenomenology (i.e., Objective truths exist, but human reason cannot access them, only their various manifestations, or "noumena.");

Never mind that BXVI was primarily a Hegelian.

Never mind that Francis (Francis!) is completely a-systemic, and the Foreword quotes him thusly:

Quote
Let that quote, coming from an SSPX-promoted book, sink in: "Realities are more important than ideas."

This is the pollution coming from Bishop Fellay's ralliement: A practical accord (i.e., a reality) is more important than doctrine (i.e., ideas).

SSPX priests are being infected by their Superior General, and Fr. Robinson very obviously wanted to show the Vatican just how open the new SSPX is to conciliarist modernism.

And the deceased Fr. Stanley Jaki (whose organization has written this Foreword for Fr. Robinson)?  

A thorough modernist, for whom science was superior to religion, having made many statements which implicitly deny the possibility of true miracles, such as this one regarding the miracle of the sun at Fatima:

Quote
And in Jaki's introduction to the English-language translation of Abbe Augustin Barruel's masterpiece "Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism" (which Weishaupt's conspiracy against altar, throne, and society), he makes this bewildering statement:

Quote
Some of you in this email are quite well read on St. Thomas Aquinas, and I should be extremely surprised if he ever taught such a thing!

Nonetheless, these are the people Fr. Robinson wants to promote his book: All of them conciliarist modernists to the man.

Obviously, the neo-SSPX is losing its mind (and its faith).

As time marches on, you can expect much more of this.  It is only natural.

Cardinal Cottier would be quite pleased to see the "progress" Menzingen is making towards conciliarism, as he once counseled regarding Campos: "What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts...we must be patient...gradually, we must expect additional steps, like concelebration...reconciliation carries within itself its own internal dynamism [self-censorship]."

Indeed it does, and Fr. Robinson's book is one more piece of evidence of that "dynamism."

Semper Idem,
Sean Johnson

Seeing as it is Sunday...

This email was circulated in a private distribution, and it was not my intention that it be posted on CI (or anywhere else), but as I neglected to make that request in the email itself, no harm done:

"Scripsi scripsit," as they say.

However, now that it HAS been posted, I would like to correct and explain my comment regarding Fr. Stanley Jaki:

1) I claim that he is a modernist.  This is primarily based on his exegesis, which seems to embrace a mitigated form of the "historico-critical" method of exegesis (i.e., Which seeks to "re-examine" patristic exegesis under the pretext of modern "science").

2) Google Fr. Raymond Brown (i.e., the apostate apostle of the historico-critical method of exegesis in the Catholic Church);

3) The tendency of HC exegetes is to explain Biblical miracles according to merely scientific causes; to find novel explanations to the Genesis creation account; to question the authorship of the Pentateuch (i.e., the first 5 books of the Old Testament) by Moses; to re-explain the New Testament miracles in a sense other than the literal sense;

4) It is generally accepted that Fr. Brown was such an exegete (one of the more tame, but an adherent nonetheless).  For example, one of his admirers writes of him: "A careful reading of Jaki's overall work bears out his belief in the original creation of the universe by the God of Christendom. At the same time Jaki cannot be called a creationist in full agreement with strict adherents to the Bible, especially the Genesis record, because he accepts the inerrancy of this record only with qualifications of a "higher critical" nature."  http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v09n2p17.htm

5) Also, he is guilty of calling into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, as he says in his own words: "Does this mean that Moses, or whoever wrote Genesis 1,..." http://www.hprweb.com/1993/08/genesis-1-a-cosmogenesis/

6) St. Pius X condemned this in his scotching of the modernists in Pascendi (See #34, which explicitly mentions questioning the authorship of the Pentateuch).

6)  Clearly, therefore, Fr. Jaki entertained the modernist "J,E,P,D" theory of exegesis (which claims that the books of the Pentateuch were compiled by various subsequent authors, based on alleged internal contextual and docuмentary evidence).

6) Such was the mindset of Fr. Jaki, and it would be a stretch to say that his scientific career had no influence on his faith: His mission was to harmonize science and faith (but it seems to me that he wanted to conform the latter to the former, and not the other way around).

7) The natural temptation, therefore, would be to take a critical (in the scholarly sense, meaning to examine them rationally, skeptical of their supra-scientific nature) view towards miracles.  Now many citations can show Fr. Jaki as accepting and defending the reality of miracles.  

However, do they preserve their same nature (i.e., no scientific explanation, as St. Thomas Aquinas in my email defines the term), or are miracles reduced to the level of scientificly explainable phenomena, such as seems to be implied in Fr. Jaki's explanation of the Fatima miracle (i.e., a meteorological phenomena, where the REAL miracle was that the event should be so significant all these years later).

Just wanted to clarify that comment.

But for one to embrace even a mitigated form of historical-critical exegesis, and call into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch is plainly modernist (condemned, and uncatholic).

Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: SeanJohnson on February 25, 2018, 05:55:02 PM
Editing time ran out (grrrr): #4 should read:

4) It is generally accepted that Fr. Jaki was such an exegete...
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Incredulous on February 25, 2018, 06:07:51 PM
Foreword to Fr Robinson's book.

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf (https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf)


It seems Fr Robinson  found inspiration in the conciliar popes, Paul VI. John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Pope Francis and Fr Stanley Jaki.

Fr Jaki was a Benedictine priest and distinguished Professor of Physics at Seton Hall University, New Jersey since 1975, indoctrinating his students in a heliocentric cosmology and natural evolution of one sort or another. For his work in synthesising Catholic faith with modern scientism Fr Jaki was awarded The Templeton Prize in 1987, ‘for furthering understanding of science and religion’ they say; a prize now valued at £1,000,000 per annum, winnable only by those who assert theistic heliocentrism and theistic evolutionism of course.

John Paul II said he loved Einstein's relativity but that this did not take from Galileo's heliocentrism. What a contradiction. He also told the flock there are proofs for heliocentrism and that the Fathers and popes who upheld geocentrism were ignorants.

In 1981, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (b.1927) later elected Pope Benedict XVI (2005-15), attempted a creation catechesis for adults in four Lenten homilies in the cathedral of Munich, and later published in a book called In the Beginning.[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1) The reason for this subject matter, he wrote, was that the creation account is noticeably and nearly completely absent from Catholic catechesis, preaching and even theology. What he wanted to do was show that the Genesis account of creation in the first book of Scripture could indeed be interpreted in harmony with modern ‘science,’ a task first taken on by Galileo. By doing so, Joseph Ratzinger hoped to give back to Genesis a credibility that would please Catholics of today. Totally ignoring the absurdity of all evolutionary theories that we have discussed earlier in this tome, the Cardinal, by way of his ‘newspeak,’ with its ambiguous euphemistic language, tries to get us to believe that the ‘poetry’ of Genesis can be understood to agree with the exact same theories that ‘science’ invented, theories that are known to have convinced millions there is no God, no need for a God when trying to understand the universe and all in it.


[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1) Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: In The beginning, CFI Bath Press, UK.

Pope francis would baptise a MARTIAN if he asked.

You hit the nail on the head Cassini.

Why would a traditional Catholic priest include such modernist theological references in the Foreword of his book ?

It must mean Father's book was edited by the Menzingen brotherhood and is being used as party-line propaganda
to endorse "Team Francis".

Two thoughts:

1. Pray that as many neo-SSPXers (priests & faithful) will receive the necessary graces to abandon this neo-trad cult.

2. Pray for Father Robinson, who must be suffering from some form of mind control?
    He has debased all of his educational credentials by previously giving us fake theology and now, fake science.








Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Incredulous on February 25, 2018, 06:21:22 PM
Seeing as it is Sunday...

This email was circulated in a private distribution, and it was not my intention that it be posted on CI (or anywhere else), but as I neglected to make that request in the email itself, no harm done:

"Scripsi scripsit," as they say.

However, now that it HAS been posted, I would like to correct and explain my comment regarding Fr. Stanley Jaki:

1) I claim that he is a modernist.  This is primarily based on his exegesis, which seems to embrace a mitigated form of the "historico-critical" method of exegesis (i.e., Which seeks to "re-examine" patristic exegesis under the pretext of modern "science").

2) Google Fr. Raymond Brown (i.e., the apostate apostle of the historico-critical method of exegesis in the Catholic Church);

3) The tendency of HC exegetes is to explain Biblical miracles according to merely scientific causes; to find novel explanations to the Genesis creation account; to question the authorship of the Pentateuch (i.e., the first 5 books of the Old Testament) by Moses; to re-explain the New Testament miracles in a sense other than the literal sense;

4) It is generally accepted that Fr. Brown was such an exegete (one of the more tame, but an adherent nonetheless).  For example, one of his admirers writes of him: "A careful reading of Jaki's overall work bears out his belief in the original creation of the universe by the God of Christendom. At the same time Jaki cannot be called a creationist in full agreement with strict adherents to the Bible, especially the Genesis record, because he accepts the inerrancy of this record only with qualifications of a "higher critical" nature."  http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v09n2p17.htm

5) Also, he is guilty of calling into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, as he says in his own words: "Does this mean that Moses, or whoever wrote Genesis 1,..." http://www.hprweb.com/1993/08/genesis-1-a-cosmogenesis/

6) St. Pius X condemned this in his scotching of the modernists in Pascendi (See #34, which explicitly mentions questioning the authorship of the Pentateuch).

6)  Clearly, therefore, Fr. Jaki entertained the modernist "J,E,P,D" theory of exegesis (which claims that the books of the Pentateuch were compiled by various subsequent authors, based on alleged internal contextual and docuмentary evidence).

6) Such was the mindset of Fr. Jaki, and it would be a stretch to say that his scientific career had no influence on his faith: His mission was to harmonize science and faith (but it seems to me that he wanted to conform the latter to the former, and not the other way around).

7) The natural temptation, therefore, would be to take a critical (in the scholarly sense, meaning to examine them rationally, skeptical of their supra-scientific nature) view towards miracles.  Now many citations can show Fr. Jaki as accepting and defending the reality of miracles.  

However, do they preserve their same nature (i.e., no scientific explanation, as St. Thomas Aquinas in my email defines the term), or are miracles reduced to the level of scientificly explainable phenomena, such as seems to be implied in Fr. Jaki's explanation of the Fatima miracle (i.e., a meteorological phenomena, where the REAL miracle was that the event should be so significant all these years later).

Just wanted to clarify that comment.

But for one to embrace even a mitigated form of historical-critical exegesis, and call into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch is plainly modernist (condemned, and uncatholic).
Ah Sunday!
(https://cdn.pitch.com/files/base/scomm/kcp/image/2011/08/960w/jfk.jpg)

After Holy Mass,  a little smoke... a sip of bourbon and make a few posts.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: klasG4e on February 25, 2018, 07:41:45 PM
The first chapter of Genesis insists that the Earth came before the Light while the Big Bang claims that the Light came before the Earth.  Thus. this simple fact shows that Big Bang is utterly incompatible/irreconcilable with Sacred Scripture.

Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: klasG4e on February 26, 2018, 07:38:01 PM
The first chapter of Genesis insists that the Earth came before the Light while the Big Bang claims that the Light came before the Earth.  Thus. this simple fact shows that Big Bang is utterly incompatible/irreconcilable with Sacred Scripture.

We find at the below link how Fr. Robinson would dismiss my powerful point above.  It is fairly amazing/shocking/scandalous to see what Fr. Robinson has written here.  On close and careful review it can be seen to simply does not wash with a traditional Catholic interpretation of Sacred Scripture.  A key point is that he wrongly uses St. Thomas Aquinas to support an untraditional exegesis of Sacred Scripture!  He would have us believe that since there is such solid evidence for the Big Bang (which in fact is just a theory) then Genesis must be interpreted in such a way so as to support the Big Bang.   In other words science the tail wags religion the dog.  Right -- I know -- Go figure! https://therealistguide.com/big-bang-theory-reactions.  (https://therealistguide.com/big-bang-theory-reactions)
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Matthew on February 26, 2018, 07:50:43 PM
We find at the below link how Fr. Robinson would dismiss my powerful point above.  It is fairly amazing/shocking/scandalous to see what Fr. Robinson has written here.  On close and careful review it can be seen to simply does not wash with a traditional Catholic interpretation of Sacred Scripture.  A key point is that he wrongly uses St. Thomas Aquinas to support an untraditional exegesis of Sacred Scripture!  He would have us believe that since there is such solid evidence for the Big Bang (which in fact is just a theory) then Genesis must be interpreted in such a way so as to support the Big Bang.   In other words science the tail wags religion the dog.  Right -- I know -- Go figure! https://therealistguide.com/big-bang-theory-reactions.  (https://therealistguide.com/big-bang-theory-reactions)

And that is completely 1950's -- back then, Religion was somewhat "blindsided" by all the "evidence" for evolution. The 1950's is when Evolution really came into its own, and really went on the prowl, entered the public school system, etc. and some good-willed Catholics spoke about, "Well, at least we have to say that God took a given pair of apes and created a human soul..." and so forth.
But today, with what we know of genetics, DNA, etc. we now know that Evolution is complete garbage. We don't need to put a Catholic coat of paint on Evolution, nor we do we have to make it "theistic". We need to chuck it in the garbage for the un-scientific nonsense that it is.

The so-called "Theory of Evolution" has ONE purpose: to displace God as the creator of order in the universe. It's a way to explain away Creation. It's basically saying that with enough time and enough monkeys on typewriters, you can come up with King Lear, Romeo and Juliet, AND MacBeth without any Shakespeare to author it!

Basically Evolution is an attempt to boggle the (quite limited) human mind, with mind-boggling concepts of eons (billions of years) so that anything seems possible. The idea is to put our philosophic (truth-seeking) mind at ease, to make us lay down our brains, as it were. Because normally our brains ask for things like a First Cause, cause and effect, etc.

Normally, when we see an intricate system or piece of machinery, we know it has a designer. But again, Evolution attempts to put this demand to rest by pointing to untold numbers of years, that we can't wrap our brains around. So we accept all manner of lunacy as acceptable or reasonable.

Similarly, it's quite in fashion these days to believe that aliens seeded the earth, or a meteorite had the building blocks of life, and one of these things seeded our primeval oceans. But this just takes the question of "the origins of life" back one step -- who created the stuff on the meteorite, or how did the *aliens* come into being? It doesn't answer anything. All it does is make it "impossible" for us to determine the true origins of life (since now the "scene of the crime" is an unreachable planet hundreds of light-years from us), and so the Evolutionists are happy.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 27, 2018, 01:27:09 PM
 The latest on Fr Robinson's book:


(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/stock/7zqjzz8/:/rs=w:400,cg:true,m)
Ask a Question
To ask Fr Robinson a question, just go to the contact us (https://therealistguide.com/contact-us) page.
Answers to Questions
Question: Can an argument be made from theology for a young age of the human race?
Answer: Chapter 3 of The Realist Guide covers the way that religions argue their dogmas. The main point is that theological arguments are essentially arguments of authority. This does not mean, however, that they are not based on reason. On the contrary, it is the duty of the branch of theology called apologetics to establish the reasonableness of the authorities being invoked.

So, if you wanted to argue a proposition like "The human race started no later than 10,000 years ago" as being part of the Catholic faith, you would try to build a case from the following authorities:   


In addition, you would make an argument of reason, but, in the theological argument, the argument from reason alone would not hold as much weight as the arguments of authority.

According to the strength of the argument of authority, theologians give a grade of certainty to the conclusion being drawn. That grade can vary from a mere theological opinion (lowest) to a dogma of divine and Catholic faith (highest). In the case of the proposition mentioned above, I believe it would fall into the category of a theological opinion.

Question: If God could have created the world as explained in the Scriptures, why would he use the Big Bang? Wouldn't that mean that God was trying to hide the way He created things? It could seem that this wouldn't make sense, especially since this way of Creation is much more likely to give impression that the Earth is accidental than the literal Creation?
Answer: In my view, things are exactly the opposite of the way that you portray them. If God created everything fully formed, as described in Genesis, then, based on what we know about planets and stars, they would have the appearance of having been formed over millions of years, but the Bible would be telling us that they were formed in an instant. In other words, the reality that God has created would be telling us one thing and the Bible would be telling us another. That is, in fact, the Protestant position, as I explain in chapter 7 of The Realist Guide. Their idea of God is that He wanted to deceive our minds by creating a world in an instant that appears to have developed over long periods of time. Why would He do this? In order to convince us that the reason that He has given us is useless! I would argue that this is not the God that we worship as Catholics and not really a God that anyone would want to worship.

As for your last question above, no, a divinely-commenced  Big Bang, far from making the development of the Earth seem accidental, rather makes it seem extremely carefully choreographed. Look up "fine-tuning of the universe" and you will see what I am talking about. Or read chapter 9 of my book.

Question: Have you heard about Mr. Robert Sungenis? He is a Catholic who holds Geocentric position. He offers (or at least used to offer) prize of several thousand for anyone who would prove the Heliocentric system to him. If the Heliocentric system is proven, wouldn't anyone who knows about science win the award?
Answer: I criticize Robert Sungenis in chapter 7 of my book. First criticism: he does not interpret the Bible as a Catholic. He makes geocentrism a theological question; in the mind of the Church, it is purely a scientific question. Second criticism: he does not accept the very solid empirical evidence available in support of heliocentrism. Thus, for instance, he did not give Ken Cole the $1000 that he promised when Ken Cole refuted his position (http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/GeocentrismDisproved.htm). Third criticism: he does not do science properly. He does not take empirical evidence and show how it supports geocentrism. Rather, he a) pokes holes in modern scientific theory; b) proposes that the geocentric model is plausible without providing real data to prove that the earth is actually at the center of the universe. In short, I don't trust Mr. Sungenis on the side of theology or on the side of science.

Question: Does your position represent the position of Society of St. Pius X?  
Answer: The SSPX does not hold official positions on science. The SSPX is a Catholic organization that holds to all of the teachings of the Catholic Church, full stop. But the Catholic Church has never mandated that Catholics hold to geocentrism or heliocentrism, or that they hold to the Big Bang Theory or any other theory. What I do in my book is try to indicate to Catholics what questions are theological and what questions are scientific. Then, on the scientific questions, I try to indicate what opinions correspond to realism and which do not. Heliocentrism and the Big Bang Theory (which allows for God and even points to God) correspond to realism and so a proper prudential intellectual judgment. Neo-Darwinian evolution, in large part, does not correspond to realism.

Question: What do you think of the position of the Kolbe Center (http://www.kolbecenter.org/) on the Bible and science?
Answer: While I respect the good will of those at the Kolbe Center, I cannot but remark that they adopt the fundamentalist Protestant stance on the relation between the Bible and science. As I explain in great detail in chapter 7 of The Realist Guide, that exegetical stance has several terrible effects:


For these reasons, Catholics should adhere to the exegetical principles of the Scriptural encyclicals of Popes Leo XIII, Benedict XV, and Pius XII, which indicate that the Bible is not to be treated as a science book.

Question: Do you no longer believe in the creation story in Genesis?
Answer: I read Genesis in the way that the Catholic Church has directed her children to read it. The Church indicates that Genesis 1 is meant to teach us important dogmas of faith, but is not meant to teach us science. Here is a summary of what we are held to believe and what we are not held to believe. 
What Catholics are held to believe from Genesis 1-3


What Catholics are not held to believe from Genesis 1-3


This is why Cardinal Ruffini, a staunchly orthodox Cardinal at Vatican II, wrote the following in his book The Theory of Evolution Judged by Reason and Faith (https://www.bookdepository.com/The-Theory-of-Evolution-Judged-by-Reason-and-Faith-Ernesto-Ruffini-Francis-OHanlon-Thomas-Boland/9781258157807?ref=grid-view&qid=1519750398236&sr=1-1):
"God could very well reveal (and who doubts it?) in what order and in what time He made the various things appear in the world; but in His inscrutable wisdom He preferred to leave such questions to human research."
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Pax Vobis on February 27, 2018, 01:53:09 PM
Quote
If God created everything fully formed, as described in Genesis, then, based on what we know about planets and stars, they would have the appearance of having been formed over millions of years...That is, in fact, the Protestant position, as I explain in chapter 7 of The Realist Guide. Their idea of God is that He wanted to deceive our minds by creating a world in an instant that appears to have developed over long periods of time. Why would He do this?
First of all, the earth only APPEARS to have developed over a long period of time because we ASSUME that it started and developed from something immature to mature, as comparing God's creation to the development of a child into an adult.  God does not deceive us, we deceive ourselves by having the wrong perception and by asking the wrong questions.  If one assumes that Adam was created as an adult, like Scripture says, then one can logically assume that the earth was created in an equally mature state, having no development nor birth, thus both scripture and science agree.

Secondly, I'm no scientist, but I don't think the evidence points to the planets/stars being formed millions of years ago.  That is evolutionary data being used to warp the truth.
Quote
The Church indicates that Genesis 1 is meant to teach us important dogmas of faith, but is not meant to teach us science.
I agree with this but that doesn't mean that science will not prove someday that Genesis happened exactly the way that Scripture described.  Much like science has proven that it is possible for the 'parting of the red sea' to have happened, the 10 plagues of Moses happened exactly as described and have historical records which support it, and that Noah's flood and Ark did occur in the time/manner as Scripture tells us.  Protestants (not all but some) have contributed a GREAT service to the bible by their research and time, and have proven many things happened EXACTLY as scripture said.  This leads me to believe that Genesis happened EXACTLY as described, even though the Church does not force anyone to agree.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 27, 2018, 02:36:23 PM


Reactions to the Big Bang Theory
In this article, Fr Paul Robinson summarizes material that is found in chapters 7 and 9 of The Realist Guide to Religion and Science.

1. Introduction
When Albert Einstein proposed his general theory of relativity in 1915, he was ushering in a new era of science. By means of his theory, scientists could, for the first time, construct physical models for the universe as a whole. Newton’s universe was infinite and the infinite cannot be measured. Einstein’s theory, however, required a finite universe, a universe that could both be tracked in its history and undergo mathematical modeling. 

The Theory of Relativity quickly received several empirical confirmations, one being that it could calculate the orbit of Mercury around the sun with perfect accuracy, whereas the same calculation using Newton’s theory of gravitation contained statistical error. The most important confirmation of Einstein’s theory was Sir Arthur Eddington’s observation of a star shift during a solar eclipse in West Africa in 1919, a shift predicted by the theory of relativity.

These predictions, however, seemed minor compared to one remarked by a Catholic Belgian priest, Fr. Georges Lemaître. In a paper published in 1927, he pointed out that, if Einstein’s theory were correct, then heavenly bodies are technically not moving in the universe, but are rather moving the universe. In other words, the universe is expanding when heavenly bodies move farther and farther away from one another. 

Lemaître went further in a book he published in 1931. If the universe is expanding, he reasoned, then to go back in time is to go back to a more contracted state of the universe. If we continue going back in time in this way, then we will eventually reach a point wherein all of the matter in the universe is compacted into a single point, something Lemaître referred to as a Primeval Atom, a phrase which he made the very title of his book. In this perspective, the entire matter/energy of our present universe started off in an enormously dense state at a single point and from there expanded over a long period of time up to the present day. 

Lemaître’s idea was met with mixed reactions. British astronomer Fred Hoyle, for one, dismissed it out of hand, referring to it jokingly as the Big Bang Theory. Hoyle was the champion of a rival theory, called the Steady State Theory, which held that the universe is eternal and largely unchanging. Others took up the Big Bang Theory and tried to provide it empirical support. 

Our objective in this multi-part article is to explore the attitude of three sets of people to Lemaître’s Big Bang Theory: atheist scientists, fundamentalist Protestants, and mainstream Catholics. After observing their reactions, we will consider whether there is solid empirical evidence for the theory.

2. Atheist scientists
Whenever we look at the reaction of this or that person to a certain event, we have to remember that it is impossible for any one of us to avoid bringing some personal bias to a given situation. If humans were mere intellects, raw thinking machines, then we could reasonably expect all of our reactions to be entirely objective. But humans are much more than what they know. They are also what they want and what they feel. Their reactions, therefore, are always some combination of intellect, will, and emotions.

It is our reason which helps us distinguish whether objectivity or subjectivity predominates in the reactions of those around us. The person reacting with rational argumentation is more objective and less biased, while the person reacting with emotional outburst is less objective and more biased.

All of this is by way of preface to considering the reaction of atheist scientists to the Big Bang Theory. They were an up and coming intellectual class starting with the wave of rationalism sweeping through the Western world in the 19th century. That wave was largely fueled by an explosion of scientific discovery. The rapid casting out of old and long-standing scientific errors worked like swelling agent on man’s all too easily inflated pride. Purely naturalistic explanations of everything under the sun—like the sun—became the rage. Many began to believe that science would eventually be able to explain everything in the universe, and do so without ever having recourse to the causality of God. The Holy Grail for unholy science soon became the goal of accounting for the existence of everything in the universe by mathematical laws alone.

Thomist philosophers know immediately that such an enterprise is doomed to failure, for the simple reason that mathematical laws do not explain the existence of anything; they only describe what things do, how things act. By and large, however, modern scientists do not understand this, for one characteristic that seems to dominate their tribe is a complete lack of philosophical knowledge. The reader does not have to rely on me for this statement; he can safely consult Einstein saying that “the man of science is a poor philosopher.” 

Despite the fact that science can never even speak about the existence of things, much less assign a cause for their existence, atheistic scientists generally believe that they can use science to prove that the universe is the ultimate reality. When they embark on this quixotic enterprise, they understand that, to make the universe the ultimate reality, they have to endow it with the attributes of God. What are the attributes of God? God is eternal, He is unchanging, uncaused, infinite. That, then, is what the universe must be if it is to pretend to be a God substitute. But does science show that we live in such a universe?

The idea that the universe is infinite in space and time gained traction in scientific minds since the great Isaac Newton had put his weight behind it in the 1600s. There were, however, two strong scientific arguments against a universe without a beginning and without boundaries, both arguments being framed in the form of a paradox:

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Fr Stanley Jaki notes with amazement in his book on this particular topic, The Paradox of Olbers’ Paradox, that the majority of scientists still maintained blind faith in the infinity of the universe in space and time, despite such solid arguments against it.

So far, so bad. Both reason and science indicate that the universe cannot be infinite. But how, one may ask, could a scientist maintain that the universe is unchanging? Well, clearly, he can’t without falling into utter absurdity. The best he can do is depict a universe that is unchanging in an approximate sense. This is what Fred Hoyle and his Steady-State crew did. They proposed that: 
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Clearly, such a universe is a poor substitute for God. Evidently, however, it was enough of a substitute for those who wanted it to be God, for the Steady-State Theory maintained a reputability in scientific circles long past its used-by date, which turned out to be extremely limited in time.

I could continue in this vein by speaking of other attempts by scientists, and especially the atheist types, to erect a scaffolding around the universe in order to hold up the divinity they wished to confer upon it. There is no need for me to do so, however, for the main point that I wish to make can now be made with reasonable clarity, and that is that the Big Bang Theory makes all of the scaffolding come crashing down.

If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is finite in time, because it began with the initial burst of energy.

If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is finite in space, because it began at a single point and has since been expanding.

If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is forever in a state of change, because it is continually getting bigger, cooler, and less dense.

If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is surely caused by God, for what could possibly initiate a universe in such a way other than a Being of immense power that is outside of space and time? 

This last point especially stuck in the craw of scientistic atheists. They knew that Christianity had long held to the belief that the universe is not eternal, but had a beginning in time. The last thing that they wanted to see was all of their efforts in science, their discoveries, their formulas, their experiments, and so on point ultimately to a dogma of the Christian faith, held on the basis of religious belief. No one has expressed the disappointment more aptly than the late NASA astronomer Robert Jastrow: 
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

Later in this article, we will see that even atheist scientists had to accept the evidence for the Big Bang—though of course that did not convert many of them to God—but for now we just register their reaction to the theory: a reaction of intense dislike followed by an attempt to discredit and destroy the theory, and finishing with a begrudging acceptance.

3. Fundamentalist Protestants
We have just seen that atheist scientists were biased against the Big Bang Theory because it lent support for a dogma of Christianity. We will now see that fundamentalist Protestants are also biased against the theory because it does not lend support to that dogma in the way that they would like.

Under the Big Bang scenario, the development of the universe from an initial point of immense energy to a diverse collection of galaxies, stars and planetary systems takes many eons of time. While the theory indirectly implies that a being outside of space and time was at the origin of the universe, it directlyasserts, by scientific argument, the precise conditions under which the universe had to develop. One of those conditions is a time period in the billions of years.

Fundamentalist Protestants, meanwhile, hold as dogma not just that God created the universe with a beginning in time, but also that He did so 6000 years ago and in a period of six, twenty-four hour days. For them, the time and the way that God created are just as dogmatic as the fact of God’s creation. This position today is commonly referred to as Young Earth Creationism (YEC).

The YEC stance stems directly from the fact that Protestantism is a text-based religion and not an institution-based religion. Protestants do not start with a divine institution that informs them on the supernatural truths that are necessary to reach salvation. They rather start with a text (compiled and transmitted across the centuries by Catholics) and seek to derive a set of revealed truths from that text.

They see that text as the only means which God has established to communicate saving truths to believers. This perspective is sometimes referred to as ‘biblicism’ because it makes the Bible the be all, end all source of religion. The Bible is made to play for Protestants the same role that the Church plays for Catholics. Just as the Church is the living voice of Jesus Christ for Catholics, so too the Bible is that voice for Protestants. 

Those who over-divinize the Bible in this way tend to: 
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Protestant biblicism sets fundamentalists on a beeline collision course with the Big Bang Theory. It leaves them with only two choices: reject all evidence for the Big Bang Theory or reject the Bible and Christian religion. An article from a 2013 issue of their Creation magazine sums it up this way:

"The timescale in and of itself is not the important issue. It ultimately comes down to, 'Does the Bible actually mean what it says?' The issue is about the trustworthiness of Scripture—compromising with long ages severely undermines the whole Gospel."

It undermines the whole Gospel IF you believe that a young age for the universe is part of the Gospel. And you believe that a young age for the universe is part of the Gospel only if you take your revealed truths from the Bible alone rather than take your revealed truths from Jesus Christ’s divine institution and then find them in the Bible.

4. Mainstream Catholics
This brings me to the Catholic reaction to the Big Bang Theory. I have already mentioned that the theory originated with a Belgian Catholic priest. Neither to him nor to the other Catholics of his day did the theory seem to violate any teaching of the Catholic faith. A short history of Catholic exegesis will help us understand why.

For the Fathers of the Church, the first rule of Biblical interpretation is to maintain the literal sense unless it is shown to be false. When that happens, it becomes obvious that the literal sense cannot be the sense intended by Scripture, because Scripture is the Word of God and so without error.

This rule teaches us that reason can be used to clarify the true meaning of Scripture. When the rule is followed, faith and reason, Bible and science, do not come into conflict. When the rule is not followed—when one is so attached to the literal sense that he clings to it in the face of contrary evidence—religion becomes unreasonable and subject to the mockery of the learned.

The two greatest thinkers in Christian history—Sts. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas—sternly warned Catholics not to interpret Scripture against reason. Here is St. Thomas summarizing St. Augustine in the Summa:
"Since Sacred Scripture can be interpreted in many ways, one must not hold so firmly to a given interpretation such that, once that interpretation is clearly shown to be false, he presume to assert that the false interpretation is Scripture’s meaning, lest, by doing so, he expose Scripture to ridicule by non-believers, and close off for them the path to belief."

There have been many Catholic Scripture scholars in Church history who have interpreted Genesis 1 in a literal sense. They did so, however, in the spirit of the primal interpretational rule. As such, they were willing to cast aside a strictly literal sense if strong evidence was found to contradict it. They understood that certain supernatural truths of Genesis were non-negotiable—one God as creator of everything from nothing, creation in time, the direct creation of man, the unity of the human race, man’s superiority over other creatures on earth and over the heavenly bodies, man’s state of original justice and his fall, etc. Natural truths not underpinning those supernatural truths, however, were negotiable.

The time in which God created the universe and the way He had it develop are certainly among the negotiable truths, since whether God created in a long period of time or a short period changes nothing of the Catholic Faith. It was for this reason that the Fathers were fairly unanimous on the religious truths taught by Genesis 1, but were quite varied in their opinions on the scientific truths taught by the same.

St. Augustine’s opinion, the one favored by St. Thomas, was that God created everything at once, not in a period of six days. For him, the six day description was a teaching tool used by the sacred author to communicate religious truths in the most effective way possible.

In our age, a series of Popes have written encyclicals on Scripture clarifying the relationship between the Bible and science. Leo XIII was particularly clear on this question when he wrote the following in Providentissimus Deus
"[T]he sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Spirit ‘who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation.’ [St. Augustine, De Gen. ad litt., i., 9, 20] Hence they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science."

In the end, Catholics have freedom to embrace or reject the Big Bang Theory, for the Church considers it to be a question of science, not of religion. No doubt, most Protestants hold the same opinion. The difference, however, is that Protestants consistent with the spirit of their religion will read the Bible as a science book, while Catholics consistent with the spirit of Catholicism will not. The savvy Catholic exegete, on the contrary, will be careful to protect both faith and reason in his interpretation of the Bible, in order to avoid portraying religion as an exercise in irrationality.

None of this, of course, is an attempt on my part to encourage Catholics to embrace the Big Bang Theory. It is rather an attempt to encourage them to reject theories that can only appear irrational in the face of today’s scientific knowledge.

Since the Big Bang Theory is a scientific theory, it needs to be considered on the basis of its scientific merits. We will do this shortly, but only after first mentioning that Pope Pius XII openly endorsed the theory and considered it to provide support for the opening words of Genesis 1. In an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1951, he examined four pieces of scientific evidence pointing to a 5-10 billion year age of the universe. Then, he stated the following:
"Although these figures may seem astounding, nevertheless, even to the simplest of the faithful, they bring no new or different concept from the one they learned in the opening words of Genesis: ‘In the beginning . . .’, that is to say, at the beginning of things in time. The figures We have quoted clothe these words in a concrete and almost mathematical expression, while from them there springs forth a new source of consolation for those who share the esteem of the Apostle for that divinely-inspired Scripture, which is always useful ‘for teaching, for reproving, for correcting, for instructing’ (II Tim. iii, 6)."

5. Scientific evidence
Einstein did not perform any experimentation in order to propose his Special and General Theories of Relativity. He rather started with the hypothetical situation that the same physical laws hold true in relation to every possible observer in the universe, no matter his location or state of motion. From there, Einstein determined in detail what sort of universe that would be and how measurements of motion should take place in such a universe. But it remained to be seen, through experimentation, if Einstein’s hypothetical universe is the one in which we actually exist.

We already noted two confirmations of Einstein’s theory in part 1 of this article. But they did not concern that aspect of the theory predicting that the universe is expanding. Experimental confirmation for this had wait for the work of Edwin Hubble. In the 1920s, he was spending many nighttime hours seated in a wicker chair, peering into a new 100-inch telescope at the Mount Wilson Observatory near Los Angeles. What he discovered revolutionized our view of the universe.

The light traveling so fast, so far, and so long through space to arrive at the eye of an avid astronomer carries with it precious information. The most important quality of the light is its wavelength, which is either stretched out or compressed. If the light is stretched out, it is said to be red-shifted, because the light has a wavelength closer to the red end of the visible spectrum of light. If the light is compressed, it is said to be blue-shifted, because it has a wavelength closer to the blue end of the visible spectrum.

When an astronomer detects red-shifted light in his telescope, he knows that the heavenly body emitting the light is moving away from the earth. When he detects blue-shifted light, it is because the star, galaxy, or whatever is moving towards the Earth.

Hubble, after carefully observing numerous heavenly bodies, was able to draw the following conclusions:
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Hubble was not just able to establish the expansion of the universe and, to a certain degree, the rate of that expansion. He was also able to peer into its history. Looking into a telescope is like looking back in time, because we are really seeing planets and stars at the time that they emitted the light that is reaching us, not as they are at the present moment. For instance, it takes light from the sun eight minutes to reach Earth, and so we are seeing the sun eight minutes in the past whenever we look at it in our backyard telescopes. By observing thousands of space objects, Hubble was able to see stars and galaxies at different stages of development and, ultimately, the universe itself at different stages of development. From this data, he was able to construct a famous ‘tuning fork’ diagram to classify different types of galaxies. Two other astronomers named Hertzsprung and Russell developed a diagram tracking the life cycle of stars, according to their color, brightness and temperature.

By the 1940s, Hubble’s empirical evidence was strongly swaying scientific minds towards acceptance of the Big Bang model. Some dyed-in-the-wool universe-deifying types, however, were still desperately supporting the Steady State model. Fred Hoyle and his cohort now had to admit that the universe was expanding and so noticeably unsteady in its dimensions. But they would not admit that the total matter of the universe was thinning out. They were sure that the density of the universe stayed the same, even with the universe expanding. As a result, they assisted the universe to be steady by claiming that one hydrogen atom per cubic meter of the universe is being created from nothing every 300,000 years and so the density of the universe always remains the same. When they said ‘created from nothing’ here, they were not saying created by God from nothing. They were saying that nothing created something—hydrogen atoms—from nothing. It was an act of scientistic ideological desperation which I did not think could possibly have a parallel until I read Lawrence Krauss’ book A Universe from Nothing.

Regardless, the atheist scientists were clinging so desperately to their fideistic religion that the Big Bang really needed some explosive evidence in order to permanently steady the fate of the Steady State Theory in a state of oblivion. Such evidence came in 1964, but before getting to it, we have to first backtrack quickly to Fr. Lemaître. 

Around the time the Belgian priest was speaking about the possibility of the universe starting as a primeval atom, he suggested that there might be a way of empirically checking his theory. Some of the energy of the Big Bang would form into stars and galaxies, but surely not all of it. Where would the rest be? It would simply be in the space between the stars and galaxies. In other words, if there was a Big Bang in the beginning, then we would expect there to be leftover radiation from the Big Bang pervading all of space, to this day.

The radiation that Fr. Lemaître predicted, today called Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR), was discovered at Bell Labs in New Jersey, when technology was just becoming sufficiently advanced to do transcontinental television transmissions. Two scientists, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, were testing a microwave receiver which they were pointing at the sky to receive the transmissions. No matter which direction they pointed the receiver, however, they noted some interference, a faint microwave signal that sounded like a hiss in their earphones. After looking high and low for the source of the problem in their device—and not finding it—they went down the road to Princeton University and were told that, in all likelihood, they were listening to a very distant echo of what once was a big bang.

The little whimper from the Big Bang—and the subsequent mapping of the CMBR by three different satellite probes—was like the tolling of a death knell for any and all theories trying to deprive the universe of a beginning or of change. It did not, of course, signal the end of scientistic atheists; it only forced them into deeper recesses of irrationality. As it were from a cavern of darkness, in sharp contrast to the bright light of the universe’s birth, they spout out the theory—no, the hallucination—that universes spontaneously pop into existence without a cause. They seem to find that idea more comforting than that supremely sane and certain sentence, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” [/font][/size]

Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 27, 2018, 03:07:01 PM

There is not a fig of difference between the atheist story of the Big Bang and that of Fr Robinson and other 'intellectual Catholics.' Fortunately others have addressed all that is in his diatribe above and shown that it is not only Einsteinian 'nonsense' but 'simple nonsense.' Accordingly I am willing over the next few days to illustrate what Fr Robinson is trying to convince others of is no more scientific evidence for anything, but has long been falsified.

Let me begin with Einstein:


‘The third and most important reason [to study this chapter well] is that he [Einstein and his theories of relativity] provides another opportunity to show up the fallacy of the general belief that modern science, in every field but perhaps especially in mathematics and physics, is so complicated that it cannot be understood by the non-specialist, and that the layman has no choice but to rely on the words of experts with superior intelligence and training. Stripped of its disguises, which as with other science and elite professions are mostly jargon and bluff, Relativity, whether Special Theory [STR] or General Theory [GTR], involves no major challenge to the intellect in order to be understood. [Einstein’s] Relativity is not merely nonsense, it is simple nonsense; and the only difficulty in seeing this lies in bringing oneself to believe it possible that anything so generally accepted by so many intelligent people really can be such obvious nonsense.’--- N.M. Gwynne: Einstein and Modern Physics, p.7.



Fr Robinsdon writes:
The Theory of Relativity quickly received several empirical confirmations, one being that it could calculate the orbit of Mercury around the sun with perfect accuracy, whereas the same calculation using Newton’s theory of gravitation contained statistical error.


Orbits remember; were measured by Domenico Cassini as Cassinian ovals and not Keplerian compromise ellipses, a fact that Fr robinson never heard of. The problem with Mercury’s perihelion then, is that it is not real but based on a false mathematical elliptical orbit of Kepler and Newton, whereas there is no sliding or shifting in Cassinian ovals. Nevertheless, to ‘solve’ this illusion Einstein used another newly invented incomprehensible mathematical system, the tensor calculus of the mathematicians Ricci and Levi-Civita. To say this exercise proved the GTR should now be seen for what it is; wishful thinking.

     But here is something else so obvious that we cannot pass this supposed proof for the GTR without pointing it out. If Einstein’s whirlpool theory is correct, and Mercury gets sucked in to a spiral causing problems with its supposed orbit, how come all the other planets in Einstein's whirlpool theory seem to be immune from similar effects? Are they too not whirling around in this same spiral? Did all these planets come out squeaky-smooth in their ‘elliptical’ orbits when Einstein’s formula was used for the new astronomy?   


Fr Robinson states as PROOF for his Big Bang theology:
The most important confirmation of Einstein’s theory was Sir Arthur Eddington’s observation of a star shift during a solar eclipse in West Africa in 1919, a shift predicted by the theory of relativity

My Answer:

A camera was set up; steady as a rock. Photographs of the sky were taken just before the eclipse. Shortly afterwards the sun and moon converged, leaving all in darkness. A second series of photographs were taken. Then it was back to the laboratory for development and comparisons. There were 43 photographic plates in all; the Sobral team took 27 and the Principe team took 16. Fifteen of these, however, were discarded because they were clouded, no use for their purpose. The conclusion, well first let us see the propaganda that Fr Robinson fell for:

‘Eddington found that light rays which had left the surface of stars thousands of years ago and had been bent by the curved space near the Sun only eight minutes previously, passed through the lens and exposed the photograph plates just where Einstein said they would. One of the most remarkable experiments in scientific history had been completed. The results of the eclipse expedition were presented by the Astronomer Royal at a meeting of the Royal Society on 6th November 1919 [announcing the observers had confirmed Einstein’s theory], and Einstein became a national hero overnight. Headlines in the New York Times suggested that a new Universe had been discovered… and this time the newspaper hype was not exaggerated. A world weary from war embraced the quiet and eccentric scientist, sitting in his study in Berlin with a pencil and pad, who had figured out the great plan of the Almighty for the entire Universe.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

Keep on reading however, and we find the following tucked into the corner of the next page: ‘Many critics said the results were inconclusive, that the possibility of error in the star measurements was too great, so the scepticism continued.’ But note ‘Einstein became a national hero’ anyway, and the New York Times did suggest ‘that a new Universe had been discovered.’

     If the theory is true, then all the stars positioned near the sun should have been displaced towards the sun. They were not. The stars in fact were displaced in the photographs in every conceivable direction, this way, that way, and every which way, but a long way from showing Einstein’s GTR to be true.

‘To make the observations come out to support Einstein, Eddington and the others took the Sobral 4-inch results as the main findings and used the two Principe plates as supporting evidence while ignoring the 18 plates taken by the Sobral astrographic… On 6th Nov. 1919, Sir Joseph Thomson, the President of the Royal Society, chaired a meeting at which he said: “It is difficult for the audience to weigh fully the meaning of the figures that have been put before us, but the Astronomer Royal and Professor Eddington have studied the material carefully, and they regard the evidence as decisively in favour of the larger value for the displacement.” ’[2] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn2)


Ah yes, the Royal Society, doing what it was established to do, dictate what ‘science’ the world was to believe, and what it was to ignore. They approved Newton’s eureka mind-conclusions and then Einstein’s ‘proofs.’ ‘The results of the measurements confirmed the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner,’ wrote Einstein in his paper already quoted.

Rejection and Rebuttals

Dr Arthur Lynch, the distinguished mathematician, let the cat out of the bag:

‘The results of the observations are shown on a chart, by a series of dots, and by tracing connections between these dots it is possible to obtain a “curve” from which the law of deviation is inferred. But the actual charts show only an irregular group of dots, through which, if it be possible to draw a curve that seems to confirm the theory of Relativity, it is equally possible to draw a curve which runs counter to the theory. Neither curve has any justification.’[3] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn3)


And if that is not enough to show a ‘scientific’ farce, Professor Charles Lane Poor really spilled the beans on the tricksters:

‘The table showing displacement of individual stars shows that on average the observed deflection, as given by the British astronomers, differ by 19% from the calculated Einstein value. In the place of two stars the agreement between theory and observation is very nearly perfect… in other cases however, the differences range from 11% to 60% [from the calculated Einstein value]. The diagrams show clearly that the observed displacements of the stars do not agree in direction with the predicted Einstein effect. This point was nowhere mentioned in the report… But, after the measurements of the plates became available for study, several investigators called attention to this fact of a radial disagreement in direction between the observed and the predicted displacements.’[4] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn4)

 

Professor Poor then goes on to tell us that the Einsteinian relativists tried to claim the differences between the predicted and observed shifts are no greater than should be expected. Consequently, ‘This very question was investigated by Dr Henry Davies Russell, of Princeton University, a most ardent upholder of relativity theory.’ After ‘an exhaustive examination’ he found the differences are real, and are contradictory.

‘The results given in the Report for the observations are the means (average) of the radial components (direction towards or away from the sun) only, nothing whatever being given to the directions in which the actual displacements took place. The Einstein theory requires a deflection, not only of a certain definite component, but also in a certain observed direction. To discuss the amount of the observed deflection is to discuss only one-half of the whole question and the less important half at that. The observed deflection might agree exactly with the predicted amount, but, if it were in the wrong direction, it would disprove, not prove, the Relativity theory. You cannot reach Washington from New York by travelling south, even if you do go the requisite number of miles.’ --- Gravitation v Relativity
But the Royal Society, as we have already seen, has long been taking homo consensus to Washington from New York travelling south, west and east.

‘Now the diagrams of the seven best plates, the seven taken at Sobral with the 4-inch camera, show clearly and definitely that the observed deflections are not in the directions required by the Einstein theory… The relativists either totally disregard these discordances, or invoke the heating effect of the sun to distort the vision by just the proper amount to explain them away.’ --- Gravitation V Relativity.

Find any old ad hoc that can be said to cause the problem by ‘just the proper amount’ and that explains it. Recall this ploy was used to explain the Airy and Michelson & Morley failures. But then Professor Poor offered another solution to ‘starlight-bending.’ one Cassini was well aware of back in 1650.

‘Further… there are other perfectly possible explanations of a deflection of a ray of light; explanations based on every-day, common-place grounds. Abnormal refraction in the Earth’s atmosphere is one; refraction of the solar envelope is another… Such is the evidence, and are the observations, which according to Einstein, “confirm the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner.’[5] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn5)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1) J.P. McEvoy and O. Zarate: op. cit., pp.43-44.
[2] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref2) H. Collins and T. Pinch: The Golem, p.51, and quoting J. Earman, and C. Glymour, ‘Relativity and Eclipses: The British Eclipse Expedition of 1919 and their Predecessors,’ Historical Studies in the Physical Sciences, 11 (1), 49-85.
[3] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref3) Arthur Lynch: The Case Against Einstein, 1932, p.264.
[4] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref4) C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.
[5] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref5) C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.


Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Merry on February 27, 2018, 08:44:47 PM
Fr. Robinson is way in over his head.  And he doesn't even know it.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: klasG4e on February 27, 2018, 09:01:51 PM
There is not a fig of difference between the atheist story of the Big Bang and that of Fr Robinson and other 'intellectual Catholics.' Fortunately others have addressed all that is in his diatribe above and shown that it is not only Einsteinian 'nonsense' but 'simple nonsense.' Accordingly I am willing over the next few days to illustrate what Fr Robinson is trying to convince others of is no more scientific evidence for anything, but has long been falsified.

Let me begin with Einstein:


‘The third and most important reason [to study this chapter well] is that he [Einstein and his theories of relativity] provides another opportunity to show up the fallacy of the general belief that modern science, in every field but perhaps especially in mathematics and physics, is so complicated that it cannot be understood by the non-specialist, and that the layman has no choice but to rely on the words of experts with superior intelligence and training. Stripped of its disguises, which as with other science and elite professions are mostly jargon and bluff, Relativity, whether Special Theory [STR] or General Theory [GTR], involves no major challenge to the intellect in order to be understood. [Einstein’s] Relativity is not merely nonsense, it is simple nonsense; and the only difficulty in seeing this lies in bringing oneself to believe it possible that anything so generally accepted by so many intelligent people really can be such obvious nonsense.’--- N.M. Gwynne: Einstein and Modern Physics, p.7.



Fr Robinsdon writes:
The Theory of Relativity quickly received several empirical confirmations, one being that it could calculate the orbit of Mercury around the sun with perfect accuracy, whereas the same calculation using Newton’s theory of gravitation contained statistical error.


Orbits remember; were measured by Domenico Cassini as Cassinian ovals and not Keplerian compromise ellipses, a fact that Fr robinson never heard of. The problem with Mercury’s perihelion then, is that it is not real but based on a false mathematical elliptical orbit of Kepler and Newton, whereas there is no sliding or shifting in Cassinian ovals. Nevertheless, to ‘solve’ this illusion Einstein used another newly invented incomprehensible mathematical system, the tensor calculus of the mathematicians Ricci and Levi-Civita. To say this exercise proved the GTR should now be seen for what it is; wishful thinking.

    But here is something else so obvious that we cannot pass this supposed proof for the GTR without pointing it out. If Einstein’s whirlpool theory is correct, and Mercury gets sucked in to a spiral causing problems with its supposed orbit, how come all the other planets in Einstein's whirlpool theory seem to be immune from similar effects? Are they too not whirling around in this same spiral? Did all these planets come out squeaky-smooth in their ‘elliptical’ orbits when Einstein’s formula was used for the new astronomy?  


Fr Robinson states as PROOF for his Big Bang theology:
The most important confirmation of Einstein’s theory was Sir Arthur Eddington’s observation of a star shift during a solar eclipse in West Africa in 1919, a shift predicted by the theory of relativity

My Answer:

A camera was set up; steady as a rock. Photographs of the sky were taken just before the eclipse. Shortly afterwards the sun and moon converged, leaving all in darkness. A second series of photographs were taken. Then it was back to the laboratory for development and comparisons. There were 43 photographic plates in all; the Sobral team took 27 and the Principe team took 16. Fifteen of these, however, were discarded because they were clouded, no use for their purpose. The conclusion, well first let us see the propaganda that Fr Robinson fell for:

‘Eddington found that light rays which had left the surface of stars thousands of years ago and had been bent by the curved space near the Sun only eight minutes previously, passed through the lens and exposed the photograph plates just where Einstein said they would. One of the most remarkable experiments in scientific history had been completed. The results of the eclipse expedition were presented by the Astronomer Royal at a meeting of the Royal Society on 6th November 1919 [announcing the observers had confirmed Einstein’s theory], and Einstein became a national hero overnight. Headlines in the New York Times suggested that a new Universe had been discovered… and this time the newspaper hype was not exaggerated. A world weary from war embraced the quiet and eccentric scientist, sitting in his study in Berlin with a pencil and pad, who had figured out the great plan of the Almighty for the entire Universe.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

Keep on reading however, and we find the following tucked into the corner of the next page: ‘Many critics said the results were inconclusive, that the possibility of error in the star measurements was too great, so the scepticism continued.’ But note ‘Einstein became a national hero’ anyway, and the New York Times did suggest ‘that a new Universe had been discovered.’

    If the theory is true, then all the stars positioned near the sun should have been displaced towards the sun. They were not. The stars in fact were displaced in the photographs in every conceivable direction, this way, that way, and every which way, but a long way from showing Einstein’s GTR to be true.

‘To make the observations come out to support Einstein, Eddington and the others took the Sobral 4-inch results as the main findings and used the two Principe plates as supporting evidence while ignoring the 18 plates taken by the Sobral astrographic… On 6th Nov. 1919, Sir Joseph Thomson, the President of the Royal Society, chaired a meeting at which he said: “It is difficult for the audience to weigh fully the meaning of the figures that have been put before us, but the Astronomer Royal and Professor Eddington have studied the material carefully, and they regard the evidence as decisively in favour of the larger value for the displacement.” ’[2] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn2)


Ah yes, the Royal Society, doing what it was established to do, dictate what ‘science’ the world was to believe, and what it was to ignore. They approved Newton’s eureka mind-conclusions and then Einstein’s ‘proofs.’ ‘The results of the measurements confirmed the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner,’ wrote Einstein in his paper already quoted.

Rejection and Rebuttals

Dr Arthur Lynch, the distinguished mathematician, let the cat out of the bag:

‘The results of the observations are shown on a chart, by a series of dots, and by tracing connections between these dots it is possible to obtain a “curve” from which the law of deviation is inferred. But the actual charts show only an irregular group of dots, through which, if it be possible to draw a curve that seems to confirm the theory of Relativity, it is equally possible to draw a curve which runs counter to the theory. Neither curve has any justification.’[3] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn3)


And if that is not enough to show a ‘scientific’ farce, Professor Charles Lane Poor really spilled the beans on the tricksters:

‘The table showing displacement of individual stars shows that on average the observed deflection, as given by the British astronomers, differ by 19% from the calculated Einstein value. In the place of two stars the agreement between theory and observation is very nearly perfect… in other cases however, the differences range from 11% to 60% [from the calculated Einstein value]. The diagrams show clearly that the observed displacements of the stars do not agree in direction with the predicted Einstein effect. This point was nowhere mentioned in the report… But, after the measurements of the plates became available for study, several investigators called attention to this fact of a radial disagreement in direction between the observed and the predicted displacements.’[4] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn4)

 

Professor Poor then goes on to tell us that the Einsteinian relativists tried to claim the differences between the predicted and observed shifts are no greater than should be expected. Consequently, ‘This very question was investigated by Dr Henry Davies Russell, of Princeton University, a most ardent upholder of relativity theory.’ After ‘an exhaustive examination’ he found the differences are real, and are contradictory.

‘The results given in the Report for the observations are the means (average) of the radial components (direction towards or away from the sun) only, nothing whatever being given to the directions in which the actual displacements took place. The Einstein theory requires a deflection, not only of a certain definite component, but also in a certain observed direction. To discuss the amount of the observed deflection is to discuss only one-half of the whole question and the less important half at that. The observed deflection might agree exactly with the predicted amount, but, if it were in the wrong direction, it would disprove, not prove, the Relativity theory. You cannot reach Washington from New York by travelling south, even if you do go the requisite number of miles.’ --- Gravitation v Relativity
But the Royal Society, as we have already seen, has long been taking homo consensus to Washington from New York travelling south, west and east.

‘Now the diagrams of the seven best plates, the seven taken at Sobral with the 4-inch camera, show clearly and definitely that the observed deflections are not in the directions required by the Einstein theory… The relativists either totally disregard these discordances, or invoke the heating effect of the sun to distort the vision by just the proper amount to explain them away.’ --- Gravitation V Relativity.

Find any old ad hoc that can be said to cause the problem by ‘just the proper amount’ and that explains it. Recall this ploy was used to explain the Airy and Michelson & Morley failures. But then Professor Poor offered another solution to ‘starlight-bending.’ one Cassini was well aware of back in 1650.

‘Further… there are other perfectly possible explanations of a deflection of a ray of light; explanations based on every-day, common-place grounds. Abnormal refraction in the Earth’s atmosphere is one; refraction of the solar envelope is another… Such is the evidence, and are the observations, which according to Einstein, “confirm the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner.’[5] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn5)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1) J.P. McEvoy and O. Zarate: op. cit., pp.43-44.
[2] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref2) H. Collins and T. Pinch: The Golem, p.51, and quoting J. Earman, and C. Glymour, ‘Relativity and Eclipses: The British Eclipse Expedition of 1919 and their Predecessors,’ Historical Studies in the Physical Sciences, 11 (1), 49-85.
[3] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref3) Arthur Lynch: The Case Against Einstein, 1932, p.264.
[4] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref4) C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.
[5] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref5) C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.
God bless you cassini for your magnificently well informed/educated (and inspiring) analysis!
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Matthew on February 27, 2018, 09:02:19 PM

Similarly, it's quite in fashion these days to believe that aliens seeded the earth, or a meteorite had the building blocks of life, and one of these things seeded our primeval oceans. But this just takes the question of "the origins of life" back one step -- who created the stuff on the meteorite, or how did the *aliens* come into being? It doesn't answer anything. All it does is make it "impossible" for us to determine the true origins of life (since now the "scene of the crime" is an unreachable planet hundreds of light-years from us), and so the Evolutionists are happy.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 28, 2018, 06:40:59 AM

LET US CONTINUE WITH THE 3RD PROOF FOR EINSTEIN'S INPUT INTO BIG BANG CREATION FR ROBINSON WOULD TELL HIS READERS TO BELIEVE:

(3) The Third ‘Proof’ for Relativity

The experimental confirmation of the GTR that the lines of a spectrum (the ‘rainbow’ of any light) should be displaced when emitted in a strong gravitational field, causing the light, as it loses some of its energy when moving away from the field, to become redder. Sir Arthur Eddington, having conned the world with his ‘bent’ interpretation of the starlight, then tried to do the same with their ‘red-shift’ as the third proof for relativity. To spare the reader from intellectual embarrassment at not being able to comprehend this proof clearly, we will curtail this explanation to a sample amount only. Any that wish to study it in total may acquire Eddington’s book and read it all:

‘Displacement of the Fraunhofer lines (The dark lines of the spectrum of sunlight). Consider a number of similar atoms vibrating at different points in the region. Let the atoms be momentarily at rest in our coordinate system (r, θ, Ø, t). The test of similarity of the atoms is that corresponding intervals shall be equal, and accordingly the interval of vibration of all the atoms will be the same. Since the atoms are at rest we set dr, dθ, dØ = 0 in (38.8) so that ds² = ydi². Thus the times of vibrations of the differently placed atoms will be inversely proportional to y. Consequently the waves are received at the same time-periods as they are emitted. ’

Want more? OK, but first remember that no one has ever seen an atom or identified its makeup. Everything to do with atoms is theory and assumption only, not necessarily scientific fact. To keep our sanity though, let us skip some of this ‘stuff’ and try to get to the point:

‘We are therefore able to compare the periods of the waves received from them, and can verify experimentally their dependence on the value of y at the place where they were emitted. Naturally, the most hopeful test is a comparison of the waves received from a solar and a terrestrial atom whose period should be in the ratio of 1.00000212:1. For the wavelength 4000 Aº, this amounts to a relative displacement of 0.0082 Aº of the respective spectral lines. The verdict of experiment is not yet such as to secure universal assent; but it is now distinctly more favourable to Einstein’s theory than when Space, Time and Gravitation was written.’

So, Einstein’s third proof, ‘is not yet such as to secure universal assent,’ which is another way of saying that the proof is no proof at all. Desperate to convince a few more, Eddington continued:

‘The quantity dt is merely an auxiliary quantity introduced through the equation 938.80 which defines it.... The absolute quantity, ds, the interval of vibration, is not carried to us unchanged, but becomes greatly modified as the waves take their course through the non-Euclidean space-time. It is in transmission through the solar system that the absolute difference is introduced into the waves, which the experiment hopes [hopes?] to detect. The argument refers to similar atoms. And the question remains whether, for example, the hydrogen atom on the sun is truly similar to the hydrogen atom on the Earth. Strictly speaking it cannot be exactly similar, because it is in a different kind of space-time, in which it would be impossible to make a finite structure exactly similar to ours existing in the space-time near the Earth. But if the interval of vibration of the hydrogen atom is modified by the kind of space-time in which it lies, the difference must depend on some invariant of the space-time.’

Impressed, we bet you are, but not Professor Arthur Lynch:

‘“And that’s why your daughter is dumb” as the quack doctor of Moliere concluded, though his arguments seem to me a model of cohesion and clarity compared with this of Einstein. It may be my own deficiency, and if, dear reader, you have made good sense out of this, I admit that your intellect soars at a range inaccessible to me.’

For a more sober version of the Earth-atom/sun-atom ‘proof’ and how it was established let us return to Collins and Pinch’s The Golem:

‘The derivations of the quantitative predictions were beset with even more difficulties than the calculations of the bending of light rays. The experimental observations conducted both before and after 1919, were more inconclusive. Yet after the interpretation of the eclipse observations had come firmly down on the side of Einstein, scientists suddenly began to see confirmation of the red-shift prediction where before they had seen only confusion… Once the seed crystal has been offered up, the crystallisation of the new scientific culture happens at breakneck speed. Doubt about the red-shift turned into certainty.’ 

Collins and Pinch end their story of the ‘proofs’ for the GTR with a quote from philosophers of science John Earman and Clark Glymour. Kicking into touch, they preferred to stick with relativity rather than reject it on the basis of their findings, to keep their jobs no doubt. Obviously they did not want to be exiled from the fee-paying institutions that control science.

‘Appropriately understood, we ourselves see no reason to disagree with this [relativity as a truth] … This curious sequence of reasons might be cause enough for despair on the part of those who see in science a model for objectivity and rationality. That mood should be lightened by the reflection that the theory in which Eddington placed his faith because he thought it beautiful and profound, and possibly, because he thought that it would be best for the world if it were true, this theory, so far as we know, still holds the truth about space, time and gravity.’

Finally, their opinion on the credibility of Einstein’s relativity:

‘The general theory of relativity is a complicated business. It is said that even by 1919 there were only two people who fully understood it: Einstein and Eddington. (This, let us hasten to add, is based on a quip of Eddington’s.) Even to this day, theorists are not completely united about what follows from Einstein’s theory…’

IMAGINE SUBJECTING THE GENESIS CREATION TO THE ABOVE
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on February 28, 2018, 06:46:37 AM

‘Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that we can refer “not improperly” to the initial singularity [the Big Bang] as an act of creation [As Fr Robinson does in his much publicised 'Catholic creation' book tries to confirm]. What conclusions can we draw from it? That a Creator exists? Suppose still, for the sake of argument, that this, too, is conceded. The problem now is twofold. Is this creator theologically relevant? Can this creator serve the purpose of faith?

     My answer to the first question is decidedly negative. A creator proved by [Big Bang] cosmology is a cosmological agent that has none of the properties a believer attributes to God. Even supposing one can consistently say the cosmological creator is beyond space and time, this creature cannot be understood as a person or as the Word made flesh or as the Son of God come down to the world in order to save mankind. Pascal rightly referred to this latter Creator as the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,” not of philosophers and scientists. To believe that cosmology proves the existence of a creator and then to attribute to this creator the properties of the Creation as a person is to make an illegitimate inference, to commit a category fallacy. My answer to the second question is also negative. Suppose we can grant what my answer to the first question intends to deny. That is, suppose we can understand the God of [Big Bang] cosmologists as the God of theologians and believers. Such a God cannot (and should not) serve the purpose of faith, because, being a God proved by cosmology he [or it] should be at the mercy of cosmology. Like any other scientific discipline that, to use Pope John Paul II’s words, proceeds with “methodological seriousness,” cosmology is always revisable. It might then happen that a creator proved on the basis of a theory will be refuted when that theory is refuted. Can the God of believers be exposed to the risk of such an inconsistent enterprise as science?’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)



[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1) Marcello Pera: The god of theologians and the god of astronomers, as found in The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, Cambridge University Press, 1998, pp.378, 379.


Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: klasG4e on February 28, 2018, 12:04:57 PM
Reviews for the books may be submitted at https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science (https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science)

Let's go for it!
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: klasG4e on February 28, 2018, 12:17:12 PM
Einstein, the atheist and major plagiarist, led a very immoral sɛҳuąƖ life.  His sɛҳuąƖ "relativism." among other negative aspects of his life including its Jєωιѕн overlay, may well have had a major impact in "relativizing" his scientific thinking or as some would say scientific fantasizing; a kind of scientific though/fantasy that served as the remedy/pretext for pushing aside the up till then extremely solid real scientific evidence that the Earth was motionless in space with the universe carried by the aether revolving once every day around it.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Fanny on February 28, 2018, 12:26:34 PM
He has his own webpage?
https://therealistguide.com

How much did that cost sspx laity?


Complete with an "ask fr. Robinson" section.  I was always taught a priest is never supposed to have an internet presence like this.  How liberal the sspx is becoming...
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: 1st Mansion Tenant on February 28, 2018, 12:40:35 PM
He has his own webpage?
https://therealistguide.com

How much did that cost sspx laity?


Complete with an "ask fr. Robinson" section.  I was always taught a priest is never supposed to have an internet presence like this.  How liberal the sspx is becoming...
hmm.. wasn't that one of the complaints Menz used against +W to justify his expulsion? 
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Last Tradhican on February 28, 2018, 12:51:47 PM
The SSPX teaches that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards. If after reading all the dogmas on EENS, they can come to that conclusion, then there is nothing that they can write about that is not suspect. There is no teaching of the Catholic Church, that is as dogmatically defined as EENS, yet the SSPX completely denies all those dogmas in their teaching that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards. What is one to make of their teachings on other subjects which are still speculative like the sedevacantes question, the Vatican II church, Vatican II, the validity of new bishops and priests, and in this case Creationism?

Well, my answer is that I totally dismiss everything they teach, just like Fr. Robinson's book. I would not read the first page. The SSPX are blind guides and dupes, at least those that teach that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards, I have not found one SSPX priests that does not go along with the teaching that that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards.

They are so blinded by their love of smells and bells that they do not realize that Vatican II was all about brainwashing Catholics to believe that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Incredulous on March 04, 2018, 05:48:06 PM
Einstein, the atheist and major plagiarist, led a very immoral sɛҳuąƖ life.  His sɛҳuąƖ "relativism." among other negative aspects of his life including its Jєωιѕн overlay, may well have had a major impact in "relativizing" his scientific thinking or as some would say scientific fantasizing; a kind of scientific though/fantasy that served as the remedy/pretext for pushing aside the up till then extremely solid real scientific evidence that the Earth was motionless in space with the universe carried by the aether revolving once every day around it.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTntEqfeiNdmaOppNn6Y26K4sMDNVtyB3XL2uEix6jyFWapcbPA_g)
Consider that Einstein and Oppenheimer were both zionists who used America as a resource base to fund the jews "Golem" bomb. They tested it out on the largest Catholic Cathedral in Asia and later used it to arm the future zionist state, Israel.  
But poor Father Robinson doesn't know or care about that.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Merry on March 04, 2018, 08:41:07 PM
From the Australian seminary - there is a disclaimer about part of the forward:


SSPX Seminary Professor Releases New Book: The Realist Guide to Religion and Science
February 27, 2018
fsspx.news (http://fsspx.news/)

(http://hcs.fsspx.org/sites/sspx/files/styles/news_big/public/news/maxresdefault_6.jpg?itok=kEuZajLW)
Fr Paul Robinson of Holy Cross Seminary in Golburn, Australia has published a book on realist philosophy, affirming that science and truth come from the same Divine source.
Just released is a new book entitled The Realist Guide to Religion and Science. Written at Holy Cross Seminary by Fr Paul Robinson, the book takes a thesis of the late, great Fr Stanley Jaki, and tries to provide it a philosophical foundation. His idea was that epistemological realism is a necessary mental precondition for anyone wanting to do science or religion reasonably. Fr Jaki buttressed his argument with many historical examples in his Gifford Lectures, but oftentimes his points are lost in his elevated and complex style. Moreover, he wrote more as an historian than a philosopher, yet his thesis is essentially philosophical.
Thus, Fr. Robinson saw an opening for a contribution to be made to the general conversation about the relation between religion and science. His book argues that epistemological realism is absolutely necessary to broker any peaceful co-existence of religion and science. The reason is that only realism is reasonable. And disagreements come when people are unreasonable. To be more specific, people and cultures of religion or science become unreasonable and come into conflict when they adopt non-realist worldviews.
 
 Typically, religions have tended toward an idealism that devalues the material world and the empirical data that it provides, trumping that data by some a priori construct deriving from a false notion of God or a literalist reading of a sacred text. Typically, scientists have tended toward an empiricism that denies the existence or at least the intellectual worth of what is beyond the senses, thereby relegating religion to the realms of illusion or uselessness. If believers and scientists are realist, these unfortunate conflicts do not happen. On the contrary, by definition, they cannot happen.
 
 The book is broken up into three sections, the first considering realist principles and the realist view of reality, the second considering religions going wrong without realism, and the third considering science going wrong without realism.

Fr Daniel Themann, rector of Holy Cross Seminary, read and censored the entire manuscript. He warmly recommends the book in the following words:
Quote
The Realist Guide goes beyond the normal Catholic apologetic which usually limits itself to showing that there is no contradiction between genuine religion and genuine science.  Fr Robinson takes the broader view and demonstrates that, throughout history, the perennial conflict which has bloodied the intellectual landscape has rather been the struggle between rationality and irrationality – science and religion being, not the antagonists, but rather the battlefields.  The attentive reader must come ready to think and ready to learn.  Whether or not you will agree with all of his conclusions, do not cheat yourself out of the insights which this book provides in abundance.
[color][size]
Visit the book's website (http://therealistguide.com/)
In the USA: Buy the book from Angelus Press. (https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science)
 Outside the USA: Buy the book from Gracewing Publications (http://www.gracewing.co.uk/page244.html)

Note on the Foreword
Fr Robinson would like to express his profound gratitude to Rev Dr Paul Haffner (http://www.jeanhaffner.co.uk/) for publishing The Realist Guide to Religion and Science through Gracewing Publishers, of which he is the theological and editorial director. Fr Robinson is also grateful to Father Haffner for writing the foreword to his book. Father Haffner, in addition to being a professor at the Gregorian University in Rome for the past 30 years, is a specialist on the work of the late Father Stanley Jaki and The Realist Guide attempts to provide a philosophical backbone to the thesis of Fr Jaki’s Gifford Lectures of 1974–1975 and 1975–1976 (published as The Road of Science and the Ways to God (http://www.realviewbooks.com/catalog8.html)). Thus, it was most appropriate for Father Haffner to compose the foreword for The Realist Guide, and Fr Robinson is pleased of Fr Haffner’s approval of his attempt to popularize Fr Jaki’s work.
In the foreword, Fr Haffner makes reference to the support of the Conciliar Popes for realism. In doing so, he assigns to Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II the titles of ‘Blessed’ and ‘Saint’ respectively. As Fr Robinson was not provided an opportunity to read the foreword before the publication of his book, he was not able to express his adherence to the position of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX) on the doubtful nature of the canonizations, because of the many changes in the canonization process (http://sspx.org/en/beatification-and-canonization-vatican-ii-1). In addition, he was not able to reiterate the particular concerns about the canonization of Pope John Paul II that he expressed in his Nov./Dec. 2013 Angelus article (http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=3526) ‘The Difference between a “Saint” and a “Saint”’.
Thus, the appearance of ‘Blessed’ and ‘Saint’ beside Paul VI and John Paul II in the foreword of The Realist Guide should in no way be construed as an acceptance by Fr Robinson of the modern canonizations or a deviation from his publicly expressed opinions on that subject or the position of the SSPX. Nor should the foreword be construed as implying that Fr Robinson believes that the Conciliar Popes have been realist in their philosophical outlook.[/size][/color]
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Matthew on March 04, 2018, 08:47:13 PM

Complete with an "ask fr. Robinson" section.  I was always taught a priest is never supposed to have an internet presence like this.  How liberal the sspx is becoming...
The SSPX is indeed becoming liberal, but this isn't one of those times.

There's no canonical or dogmatic reason why a priest can't have an online presence or apostolate. However, they're not supposed to be in any kind of for-profit business once they are tonsured (which usually occurs during the 1st or 2nd year of seminary). In other words, all clerics are supposed to refrain from business and making money. However, any kind of online volunteer work involving the Faith, teaching, etc. is certainly fair game.

On the other hand, there is indeed an issue of hypocrisy on the SSPX's part. They expelled +Williamson for maintaining an online newsletter, because they disagreed with him. But Fr. Robinson can have is own side-apostolate which places him in the public eye and that's fine...because Fr. Robinson is a company man and they "trust him".

If +Williamson had published a book about the h0Ɩ0h0αx, I'm sure the SSPX wouldn't have been promoting it, the way they're currently promoting Fr. Robinson's book. Hence my charge of hypocrisy.

Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on March 05, 2018, 05:29:51 AM
'Just released is a new book entitled The Realist Guide to Religion and Science. Written at Holy Cross Seminary by Fr Paul Robinson, the book takes a thesis of the late, great Fr Stanley Jaki, and tries to provide it a philosophical foundation. '

Now let us read a bit about the 'GREAT FR STANLEY JAKI.'

http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/paula-p.html (http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/paula-p.html)

http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/posted-with-permission-from-paula-p.html (http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/posted-with-permission-from-paula-p.html)

http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/father-stanley-l-jaki-evolutionist-by.html (http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/father-stanley-l-jaki-evolutionist-by.html)

http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/father-stanley-l-jaki-revisionist-by_29.html (http://debunkingalecmacandrew.blogspot.ie/2016/01/father-stanley-l-jaki-revisionist-by_29.html)

CIF READERS WILL NOT BE FOOLED OR LEFT IGNORANT.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: cassini on March 05, 2018, 06:43:23 AM

Thus, Fr. Robinson saw an opening for a contribution to be made to the general conversation about the relation between religion and science. His book argues that epistemological realism is absolutely necessary to broker any peaceful co-existence of religion and science. The reason is that only realism is reasonable. And disagreements come when people are unreasonable. To be more specific, people and cultures of religion or science become unreasonable and come into conflict when they adopt non-realist worldviews.
 
 Typically, religions have tended toward an idealism that devalues the material world and the empirical data that it provides, trumping that data by some a priori construct deriving from a false notion of God or a literalist reading of a sacred text. Typically, scientists have tended toward an empiricism that denies the existence or at least the intellectual worth of what is beyond the senses, thereby relegating religion to the realms of illusion or uselessness. If believers and scientists are realist, these unfortunate conflicts do not happen. On the contrary, by definition, they cannot happen.
 
 The book is broken up into three sections, the first considering realist principles and the realist view of reality, the second considering religions going wrong without realism, and the third considering science going wrong without realism.

Fr Daniel Themann, rector of Holy Cross Seminary, read and censored the entire manuscript. He warmly recommends the book in the following words:

Many will be forgiven if the above is WAY ABOVE THEIR HEAD. It reads like few of us REALLY know much about the Catholic approach to FAITH AND SCIENCE so we better leave that to those who REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. But don't fall for that.

When the M&M scientific experiment of 1887 showed the Earth does not travel through space as believed by churchmen and State, they needed to restore their once defined and declarted heresy for all to believe. For 17 years they could not come up with a solution. But then they spotted this EINSTEIN, who could fool everyone into thinking HE was SO INTELLIGENT that due to human PRIDE very few would challenge him. Yes, he was a SUPER-BRAIN and SUPER-BRAINS can reach heights between MAN AND GOD in knowing.

SO, what did EINSTEIN come up with? Well he first had to admit that man cannot prove geocentrism or heliocentrism. Here is the only FACT that Einstein confirmed.
Along came Fr Robinson's hero the Jesuit George Lemaitre (1894-1966). Now instead of looking for a BIG BANG, why didn't he NOTE THAT THIS MEANS THE CHURCH OF 1616 and 1633 was never proven wrong and MAKE THAT HIS CATHOLIC MISSION? He didn't, nor any other Catholic clergy on Earth.

Now there is the real mystery. But by then churchmen had been overcome by INTELLECTUAL PRIDE especially found in SCIENCE and especially in science that CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD by your AVERAGE HUMAN BRAIN.

And that is why the Jesuits (Brainy priests like Pope Francis) Lemaitre and Fr Jaki are up there as HEROES OF SCIENCE. Now we have Fr Robinson SSPX trying to convert the few creationist traditional Catholics who hoped they would get tradition with the SSPX. Yes, all Catholics know today, to try to vindicate the Church of 1616 with their geocentric relativity would bring laughter from all quarters, so instead they defend that SCIENTIFIC NONSENSE that Fr Robinson callas EVIDENCE FOR A BIG BANG. Yes, who said Catholicism was not up to speed with science?

Incidentally, be aware that Fr Robinson's EVIDENCE is the Red-shifts was that found by Hubble, shifts he attributed to stars moving away from the earth, that is an expanding universe.

Totally unknown to Fr Robinson I would say, is that in Copernicus's book De revolutionibus he states that if the universe is geocentric with all the stars swinging around the earth (which would be evidenve that the universe is not infinite), then we would find an expanding universe. Given also that all the stars are turning around the earth, these movements could also account for red-shifts. Yes, geocentrism could cause an expanding universe if it is expanding, which I doubt. Think about it, wouldn't rotating stars also have red-shifts as seen from Earth simply from their movements?

Finally, for many years now, since that U-turn on the geocentric revelation of Scripture making it read heliocentric, a new mysterious dogma has come into Catholic teaching, one used by Fr Robinson also, the 'Bible is not meant to teach science but how to get to heaven.' Attributed to Cardinal Baronius by Pope John Paul II it was in fact conjured up FIRST by the PROTESTANT Rheticus who helped get Copernicus with his De Revolutionibus. This dogma was conjured up IN THE AFTERMATH BY CHURCHMEN AS A RESULT OF THEIR BELIEVING THE FATHERS GOT IT WRONG WHEN THEY ALL AGREED THE BIBLE REVEALS GEOCENTRISM. It was one way to worm their way out of their contradicting their predecessors.

But apart from this SCANDAL, it makes NO SENSE AT ALL. They teach every word of the bible is true, but if it says something 'SCIENTIFIC' Catholics are supposed to say, 'WELL IT DOESN'T TEACH US WHAT IT SAYS.' This is a JOKE, one that needs to be clarified.

Fat chance of that if one of the remaining traditional groups of Catholic priests are allowing this BIG BANG theology to get hold on their diminishingn flock. I fior one will fight it in ortder to try to correct them and save the flock.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Mr G on March 07, 2018, 10:45:34 AM


For those that did not see this on the other related thread: Here is what I found on Fr. Jaki, whom Fr. Robinson is using as his inspiration for this book...

http://www.catholicstand.com/fr-stanley-jaki-on-the-fatima-miracle/ (http://www.catholicstand.com/fr-stanley-jaki-on-the-fatima-miracle/)

Father's conclusions: The Miracle of the Sun was not the sun, but ice crystals! The main miracle was that the event inspired so many people! Read for yourself and see if that is how you understand it also.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: Pax Vobis on March 07, 2018, 11:08:30 AM
With all the attacks on the Faith and with the enemies of Catholicity growing and spreading error upon error, I have to ask:  If you were going to spend time defending the Faith - is a book about faith/science the BEST use of one's time?  I mean, really, aren't there bigger fish to fry?  Aren't there much, much, much larger and more important areas to defend?  Like theology, or doctrine, or the liturgy?

Relative to the times we live in, this book's topic is such a low priority (and that's assuming it is 100% orthodox, which it's not).  It's like a man who's house is on fire and he's on the phone arguing with a customer service rep about the warranty for a blender.
Title: Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
Post by: klasG4e on March 08, 2018, 12:50:55 PM

I almost never go to this website, but I recently happened across this commentary on an essay by Fr. Robinson here: https://novusordowatch.org/2017/06/sspx-francis-theological-absurdistan/ (https://novusordowatch.org/2017/06/sspx-francis-theological-absurdistan/)

The article starts out:
The absurd theology of the Society of Saint Pius X is currently on full display again.
(https://novusordowatch.org/wp-content/uploads/sspx-paul-robinson-sspx.jpg)On June 8, 2017 there appeared an article entitled, “Unity of Faith with Pope Francis & Canonical Recognition of the SSPX” (http://fsspx.asia/en/news-events/news/unity-faith-pope-francis-canonical-recognition-sspx-30306) on the web site of the SSPX’s Asian District. The essay was written by Fr. Paul Robinson, a professor of dogmatic theology (http://hcs.fsspx.org/en/hcs-professors) at the Lefebvrian Holy Cross Seminary in Lake Bathurst, Australia. As the article points out in an introductory comment, it is “published with permission of the SSPX’s General House in Menzingen”, which means it comes with the highest possible Lefebvrian approval, that of Superior General Bp. Bernard Fellay himself, who resides at his order’s headquarters in Menzingen, Switzerland.

Fr. Robinson’s essay is a sterling example of the absurd ecclesiology the SSPX ends up with as a result of forcing the square peg of Jorge Bergoglio into the round hole of the Roman Pontificate. In what follows, we will quote Fr. Robinson’s article in full, interspersed with our comments for a much-needed reality check. Get ready for some fireworks!