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Author Topic: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"  (Read 6154 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2018, 06:21:22 PM »
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  • Seeing as it is Sunday...

    This email was circulated in a private distribution, and it was not my intention that it be posted on CI (or anywhere else), but as I neglected to make that request in the email itself, no harm done:

    "Scripsi scripsit," as they say.

    However, now that it HAS been posted, I would like to correct and explain my comment regarding Fr. Stanley Jaki:

    1) I claim that he is a modernist.  This is primarily based on his exegesis, which seems to embrace a mitigated form of the "historico-critical" method of exegesis (i.e., Which seeks to "re-examine" patristic exegesis under the pretext of modern "science").

    2) Google Fr. Raymond Brown (i.e., the apostate apostle of the historico-critical method of exegesis in the Catholic Church);

    3) The tendency of HC exegetes is to explain Biblical miracles according to merely scientific causes; to find novel explanations to the Genesis creation account; to question the authorship of the Pentateuch (i.e., the first 5 books of the Old Testament) by Moses; to re-explain the New Testament miracles in a sense other than the literal sense;

    4) It is generally accepted that Fr. Brown was such an exegete (one of the more tame, but an adherent nonetheless).  For example, one of his admirers writes of him: "A careful reading of Jaki's overall work bears out his belief in the original creation of the universe by the God of Christendom. At the same time Jaki cannot be called a creationist in full agreement with strict adherents to the Bible, especially the Genesis record, because he accepts the inerrancy of this record only with qualifications of a "higher critical" nature."  http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v09n2p17.htm

    5) Also, he is guilty of calling into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, as he says in his own words: "Does this mean that Moses, or whoever wrote Genesis 1,..." http://www.hprweb.com/1993/08/genesis-1-a-cosmogenesis/

    6) St. Pius X condemned this in his scotching of the modernists in Pascendi (See #34, which explicitly mentions questioning the authorship of the Pentateuch).

    6)  Clearly, therefore, Fr. Jaki entertained the modernist "J,E,P,D" theory of exegesis (which claims that the books of the Pentateuch were compiled by various subsequent authors, based on alleged internal contextual and docuмentary evidence).

    6) Such was the mindset of Fr. Jaki, and it would be a stretch to say that his scientific career had no influence on his faith: His mission was to harmonize science and faith (but it seems to me that he wanted to conform the latter to the former, and not the other way around).

    7) The natural temptation, therefore, would be to take a critical (in the scholarly sense, meaning to examine them rationally, skeptical of their supra-scientific nature) view towards miracles.  Now many citations can show Fr. Jaki as accepting and defending the reality of miracles.  

    However, do they preserve their same nature (i.e., no scientific explanation, as St. Thomas Aquinas in my email defines the term), or are miracles reduced to the level of scientificly explainable phenomena, such as seems to be implied in Fr. Jaki's explanation of the Fatima miracle (i.e., a meteorological phenomena, where the REAL miracle was that the event should be so significant all these years later).

    Just wanted to clarify that comment.

    But for one to embrace even a mitigated form of historical-critical exegesis, and call into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch is plainly modernist (condemned, and uncatholic).
    Ah Sunday!


    After Holy Mass,  a little smoke... a sip of bourbon and make a few posts.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #31 on: February 25, 2018, 07:41:45 PM »
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  • The first chapter of Genesis insists that the Earth came before the Light while the Big Bang claims that the Light came before the Earth.  Thus. this simple fact shows that Big Bang is utterly incompatible/irreconcilable with Sacred Scripture.



    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #32 on: February 26, 2018, 07:38:01 PM »
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  • The first chapter of Genesis insists that the Earth came before the Light while the Big Bang claims that the Light came before the Earth.  Thus. this simple fact shows that Big Bang is utterly incompatible/irreconcilable with Sacred Scripture.

    We find at the below link how Fr. Robinson would dismiss my powerful point above.  It is fairly amazing/shocking/scandalous to see what Fr. Robinson has written here.  On close and careful review it can be seen to simply does not wash with a traditional Catholic interpretation of Sacred Scripture.  A key point is that he wrongly uses St. Thomas Aquinas to support an untraditional exegesis of Sacred Scripture!  He would have us believe that since there is such solid evidence for the Big Bang (which in fact is just a theory) then Genesis must be interpreted in such a way so as to support the Big Bang.   In other words science the tail wags religion the dog.  Right -- I know -- Go figure! https://therealistguide.com/big-bang-theory-reactions.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #33 on: February 26, 2018, 07:50:43 PM »
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  • We find at the below link how Fr. Robinson would dismiss my powerful point above.  It is fairly amazing/shocking/scandalous to see what Fr. Robinson has written here.  On close and careful review it can be seen to simply does not wash with a traditional Catholic interpretation of Sacred Scripture.  A key point is that he wrongly uses St. Thomas Aquinas to support an untraditional exegesis of Sacred Scripture!  He would have us believe that since there is such solid evidence for the Big Bang (which in fact is just a theory) then Genesis must be interpreted in such a way so as to support the Big Bang.   In other words science the tail wags religion the dog.  Right -- I know -- Go figure! https://therealistguide.com/big-bang-theory-reactions.

    And that is completely 1950's -- back then, Religion was somewhat "blindsided" by all the "evidence" for evolution. The 1950's is when Evolution really came into its own, and really went on the prowl, entered the public school system, etc. and some good-willed Catholics spoke about, "Well, at least we have to say that God took a given pair of apes and created a human soul..." and so forth.
    But today, with what we know of genetics, DNA, etc. we now know that Evolution is complete garbage. We don't need to put a Catholic coat of paint on Evolution, nor we do we have to make it "theistic". We need to chuck it in the garbage for the un-scientific nonsense that it is.

    The so-called "Theory of Evolution" has ONE purpose: to displace God as the creator of order in the universe. It's a way to explain away Creation. It's basically saying that with enough time and enough monkeys on typewriters, you can come up with King Lear, Romeo and Juliet, AND MacBeth without any Shakespeare to author it!

    Basically Evolution is an attempt to boggle the (quite limited) human mind, with mind-boggling concepts of eons (billions of years) so that anything seems possible. The idea is to put our philosophic (truth-seeking) mind at ease, to make us lay down our brains, as it were. Because normally our brains ask for things like a First Cause, cause and effect, etc.

    Normally, when we see an intricate system or piece of machinery, we know it has a designer. But again, Evolution attempts to put this demand to rest by pointing to untold numbers of years, that we can't wrap our brains around. So we accept all manner of lunacy as acceptable or reasonable.

    Similarly, it's quite in fashion these days to believe that aliens seeded the earth, or a meteorite had the building blocks of life, and one of these things seeded our primeval oceans. But this just takes the question of "the origins of life" back one step -- who created the stuff on the meteorite, or how did the *aliens* come into being? It doesn't answer anything. All it does is make it "impossible" for us to determine the true origins of life (since now the "scene of the crime" is an unreachable planet hundreds of light-years from us), and so the Evolutionists are happy.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #34 on: February 27, 2018, 01:27:09 PM »
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  •  The latest on Fr Robinson's book:



    Ask a Question
    To ask Fr Robinson a question, just go to the contact us page.
    Answers to Questions
    Question: Can an argument be made from theology for a young age of the human race?
    Answer: Chapter 3 of The Realist Guide covers the way that religions argue their dogmas. The main point is that theological arguments are essentially arguments of authority. This does not mean, however, that they are not based on reason. On the contrary, it is the duty of the branch of theology called apologetics to establish the reasonableness of the authorities being invoked.

    So, if you wanted to argue a proposition like "The human race started no later than 10,000 years ago" as being part of the Catholic faith, you would try to build a case from the following authorities:   

    • Sacred Scripture
    • The writings of the Fathers
    • Docuмents of the Magisterium

    In addition, you would make an argument of reason, but, in the theological argument, the argument from reason alone would not hold as much weight as the arguments of authority.

    According to the strength of the argument of authority, theologians give a grade of certainty to the conclusion being drawn. That grade can vary from a mere theological opinion (lowest) to a dogma of divine and Catholic faith (highest). In the case of the proposition mentioned above, I believe it would fall into the category of a theological opinion.

    Question: If God could have created the world as explained in the Scriptures, why would he use the Big Bang? Wouldn't that mean that God was trying to hide the way He created things? It could seem that this wouldn't make sense, especially since this way of Creation is much more likely to give impression that the Earth is accidental than the literal Creation?
    Answer: In my view, things are exactly the opposite of the way that you portray them. If God created everything fully formed, as described in Genesis, then, based on what we know about planets and stars, they would have the appearance of having been formed over millions of years, but the Bible would be telling us that they were formed in an instant. In other words, the reality that God has created would be telling us one thing and the Bible would be telling us another. That is, in fact, the Protestant position, as I explain in chapter 7 of The Realist Guide. Their idea of God is that He wanted to deceive our minds by creating a world in an instant that appears to have developed over long periods of time. Why would He do this? In order to convince us that the reason that He has given us is useless! I would argue that this is not the God that we worship as Catholics and not really a God that anyone would want to worship.

    As for your last question above, no, a divinely-commenced  Big Bang, far from making the development of the Earth seem accidental, rather makes it seem extremely carefully choreographed. Look up "fine-tuning of the universe" and you will see what I am talking about. Or read chapter 9 of my book.

    Question: Have you heard about Mr. Robert Sungenis? He is a Catholic who holds Geocentric position. He offers (or at least used to offer) prize of several thousand for anyone who would prove the Heliocentric system to him. If the Heliocentric system is proven, wouldn't anyone who knows about science win the award?
    Answer: I criticize Robert Sungenis in chapter 7 of my book. First criticism: he does not interpret the Bible as a Catholic. He makes geocentrism a theological question; in the mind of the Church, it is purely a scientific question. Second criticism: he does not accept the very solid empirical evidence available in support of heliocentrism. Thus, for instance, he did not give Ken Cole the $1000 that he promised when Ken Cole refuted his position. Third criticism: he does not do science properly. He does not take empirical evidence and show how it supports geocentrism. Rather, he a) pokes holes in modern scientific theory; b) proposes that the geocentric model is plausible without providing real data to prove that the earth is actually at the center of the universe. In short, I don't trust Mr. Sungenis on the side of theology or on the side of science.

    Question: Does your position represent the position of Society of St. Pius X?  
    Answer: The SSPX does not hold official positions on science. The SSPX is a Catholic organization that holds to all of the teachings of the Catholic Church, full stop. But the Catholic Church has never mandated that Catholics hold to geocentrism or heliocentrism, or that they hold to the Big Bang Theory or any other theory. What I do in my book is try to indicate to Catholics what questions are theological and what questions are scientific. Then, on the scientific questions, I try to indicate what opinions correspond to realism and which do not. Heliocentrism and the Big Bang Theory (which allows for God and even points to God) correspond to realism and so a proper prudential intellectual judgment. Neo-Darwinian evolution, in large part, does not correspond to realism.

    Question: What do you think of the position of the Kolbe Center on the Bible and science?
    Answer: While I respect the good will of those at the Kolbe Center, I cannot but remark that they adopt the fundamentalist Protestant stance on the relation between the Bible and science. As I explain in great detail in chapter 7 of The Realist Guide, that exegetical stance has several terrible effects:

    • It makes the Bible out to be an enemy of science.
    • It makes religion out to be an enemy of reason.
    • It makes God out to be an arbitrary ruler of the universe.

    For these reasons, Catholics should adhere to the exegetical principles of the Scriptural encyclicals of Popes Leo XIII, Benedict XV, and Pius XII, which indicate that the Bible is not to be treated as a science book.

    Question: Do you no longer believe in the creation story in Genesis?
    Answer: I read Genesis in the way that the Catholic Church has directed her children to read it. The Church indicates that Genesis 1 is meant to teach us important dogmas of faith, but is not meant to teach us science. Here is a summary of what we are held to believe and what we are not held to believe. 
    What Catholics are held to believe from Genesis 1-3

    • There is one God, outside of the universe, who created that universe from nothing, such that it had a beginning in time.
    • God created man directly and Eve was formed from Adam.
    • Monogenism – the entire human race has a single set of first parents.
    • Our first parents were created in a state of original justice, with gifts of integrity and immortality.
    • They fell from that state by sin and the wound of their sin was communicated to the entire human race.  

    What Catholics are not held to believe from Genesis 1-3

    • the universe is a certain age, the Earth is a certain age, the human race is a certain age.
    • the universe developed in a certain way 

    This is why Cardinal Ruffini, a staunchly orthodox Cardinal at Vatican II, wrote the following in his book The Theory of Evolution Judged by Reason and Faith:
    "God could very well reveal (and who doubts it?) in what order and in what time He made the various things appear in the world; but in His inscrutable wisdom He preferred to leave such questions to human research."


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #35 on: February 27, 2018, 01:53:09 PM »
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  • Quote
    If God created everything fully formed, as described in Genesis, then, based on what we know about planets and stars, they would have the appearance of having been formed over millions of years...That is, in fact, the Protestant position, as I explain in chapter 7 of The Realist Guide. Their idea of God is that He wanted to deceive our minds by creating a world in an instant that appears to have developed over long periods of time. Why would He do this?
    First of all, the earth only APPEARS to have developed over a long period of time because we ASSUME that it started and developed from something immature to mature, as comparing God's creation to the development of a child into an adult.  God does not deceive us, we deceive ourselves by having the wrong perception and by asking the wrong questions.  If one assumes that Adam was created as an adult, like Scripture says, then one can logically assume that the earth was created in an equally mature state, having no development nor birth, thus both scripture and science agree.

    Secondly, I'm no scientist, but I don't think the evidence points to the planets/stars being formed millions of years ago.  That is evolutionary data being used to warp the truth.
    Quote
    The Church indicates that Genesis 1 is meant to teach us important dogmas of faith, but is not meant to teach us science.
    I agree with this but that doesn't mean that science will not prove someday that Genesis happened exactly the way that Scripture described.  Much like science has proven that it is possible for the 'parting of the red sea' to have happened, the 10 plagues of Moses happened exactly as described and have historical records which support it, and that Noah's flood and Ark did occur in the time/manner as Scripture tells us.  Protestants (not all but some) have contributed a GREAT service to the bible by their research and time, and have proven many things happened EXACTLY as scripture said.  This leads me to believe that Genesis happened EXACTLY as described, even though the Church does not force anyone to agree.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #36 on: February 27, 2018, 02:36:23 PM »
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  • Reactions to the Big Bang Theory
    In this article, Fr Paul Robinson summarizes material that is found in chapters 7 and 9 of The Realist Guide to Religion and Science.

    1. Introduction
    When Albert Einstein proposed his general theory of relativity in 1915, he was ushering in a new era of science. By means of his theory, scientists could, for the first time, construct physical models for the universe as a whole. Newton’s universe was infinite and the infinite cannot be measured. Einstein’s theory, however, required a finite universe, a universe that could both be tracked in its history and undergo mathematical modeling. 

    The Theory of Relativity quickly received several empirical confirmations, one being that it could calculate the orbit of Mercury around the sun with perfect accuracy, whereas the same calculation using Newton’s theory of gravitation contained statistical error. The most important confirmation of Einstein’s theory was Sir Arthur Eddington’s observation of a star shift during a solar eclipse in West Africa in 1919, a shift predicted by the theory of relativity.

    These predictions, however, seemed minor compared to one remarked by a Catholic Belgian priest, Fr. Georges Lemaître. In a paper published in 1927, he pointed out that, if Einstein’s theory were correct, then heavenly bodies are technically not moving in the universe, but are rather moving the universe. In other words, the universe is expanding when heavenly bodies move farther and farther away from one another. 

    Lemaître went further in a book he published in 1931. If the universe is expanding, he reasoned, then to go back in time is to go back to a more contracted state of the universe. If we continue going back in time in this way, then we will eventually reach a point wherein all of the matter in the universe is compacted into a single point, something Lemaître referred to as a Primeval Atom, a phrase which he made the very title of his book. In this perspective, the entire matter/energy of our present universe started off in an enormously dense state at a single point and from there expanded over a long period of time up to the present day. 

    Lemaître’s idea was met with mixed reactions. British astronomer Fred Hoyle, for one, dismissed it out of hand, referring to it jokingly as the Big Bang Theory. Hoyle was the champion of a rival theory, called the Steady State Theory, which held that the universe is eternal and largely unchanging. Others took up the Big Bang Theory and tried to provide it empirical support. 

    Our objective in this multi-part article is to explore the attitude of three sets of people to Lemaître’s Big Bang Theory: atheist scientists, fundamentalist Protestants, and mainstream Catholics. After observing their reactions, we will consider whether there is solid empirical evidence for the theory.

    2. Atheist scientists
    Whenever we look at the reaction of this or that person to a certain event, we have to remember that it is impossible for any one of us to avoid bringing some personal bias to a given situation. If humans were mere intellects, raw thinking machines, then we could reasonably expect all of our reactions to be entirely objective. But humans are much more than what they know. They are also what they want and what they feel. Their reactions, therefore, are always some combination of intellect, will, and emotions.

    It is our reason which helps us distinguish whether objectivity or subjectivity predominates in the reactions of those around us. The person reacting with rational argumentation is more objective and less biased, while the person reacting with emotional outburst is less objective and more biased.

    All of this is by way of preface to considering the reaction of atheist scientists to the Big Bang Theory. They were an up and coming intellectual class starting with the wave of rationalism sweeping through the Western world in the 19th century. That wave was largely fueled by an explosion of scientific discovery. The rapid casting out of old and long-standing scientific errors worked like swelling agent on man’s all too easily inflated pride. Purely naturalistic explanations of everything under the sun—like the sun—became the rage. Many began to believe that science would eventually be able to explain everything in the universe, and do so without ever having recourse to the causality of God. The Holy Grail for unholy science soon became the goal of accounting for the existence of everything in the universe by mathematical laws alone.

    Thomist philosophers know immediately that such an enterprise is doomed to failure, for the simple reason that mathematical laws do not explain the existence of anything; they only describe what things do, how things act. By and large, however, modern scientists do not understand this, for one characteristic that seems to dominate their tribe is a complete lack of philosophical knowledge. The reader does not have to rely on me for this statement; he can safely consult Einstein saying that “the man of science is a poor philosopher.” 

    Despite the fact that science can never even speak about the existence of things, much less assign a cause for their existence, atheistic scientists generally believe that they can use science to prove that the universe is the ultimate reality. When they embark on this quixotic enterprise, they understand that, to make the universe the ultimate reality, they have to endow it with the attributes of God. What are the attributes of God? God is eternal, He is unchanging, uncaused, infinite. That, then, is what the universe must be if it is to pretend to be a God substitute. But does science show that we live in such a universe?

    The idea that the universe is infinite in space and time gained traction in scientific minds since the great Isaac Newton had put his weight behind it in the 1600s. There were, however, two strong scientific arguments against a universe without a beginning and without boundaries, both arguments being framed in the form of a paradox:

    •  If the universe is eternal, then the force of gravitation has been working forever. If gravitation works forever, only two scenarios are possible: either all bodies get pulled together into a single body or no bodies come together. But neither of these is true.
    • If the universe is eternal, then the light of stars has been shining eternally. When stars shine forever, the night sky becomes entirely lit up as light eventually reaches the Earth from all directions. But the night sky is not all lit up, but is rather dark.
    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]

    Fr Stanley Jaki notes with amazement in his book on this particular topic, The Paradox of Olbers’ Paradox, that the majority of scientists still maintained blind faith in the infinity of the universe in space and time, despite such solid arguments against it.

    So far, so bad. Both reason and science indicate that the universe cannot be infinite. But how, one may ask, could a scientist maintain that the universe is unchanging? Well, clearly, he can’t without falling into utter absurdity. The best he can do is depict a universe that is unchanging in an approximate sense. This is what Fred Hoyle and his Steady-State crew did. They proposed that: 
    [/font][/size]

    • The stars are all approximately the same in composition and the same distance from one another. 
    • The general character of the universe remains the same always, such that the universe is unchanging in its grand scheme.
    • The motions of all bodies in the universe are generally the same.
    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]

    Clearly, such a universe is a poor substitute for God. Evidently, however, it was enough of a substitute for those who wanted it to be God, for the Steady-State Theory maintained a reputability in scientific circles long past its used-by date, which turned out to be extremely limited in time.

    I could continue in this vein by speaking of other attempts by scientists, and especially the atheist types, to erect a scaffolding around the universe in order to hold up the divinity they wished to confer upon it. There is no need for me to do so, however, for the main point that I wish to make can now be made with reasonable clarity, and that is that the Big Bang Theory makes all of the scaffolding come crashing down.

    If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is finite in time, because it began with the initial burst of energy.

    If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is finite in space, because it began at a single point and has since been expanding.

    If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is forever in a state of change, because it is continually getting bigger, cooler, and less dense.

    If the Big Bang Theory is true, the universe is surely caused by God, for what could possibly initiate a universe in such a way other than a Being of immense power that is outside of space and time? 

    This last point especially stuck in the craw of scientistic atheists. They knew that Christianity had long held to the belief that the universe is not eternal, but had a beginning in time. The last thing that they wanted to see was all of their efforts in science, their discoveries, their formulas, their experiments, and so on point ultimately to a dogma of the Christian faith, held on the basis of religious belief. No one has expressed the disappointment more aptly than the late NASA astronomer Robert Jastrow: 
    "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

    Later in this article, we will see that even atheist scientists had to accept the evidence for the Big Bang—though of course that did not convert many of them to God—but for now we just register their reaction to the theory: a reaction of intense dislike followed by an attempt to discredit and destroy the theory, and finishing with a begrudging acceptance.

    3. Fundamentalist Protestants
    We have just seen that atheist scientists were biased against the Big Bang Theory because it lent support for a dogma of Christianity. We will now see that fundamentalist Protestants are also biased against the theory because it does not lend support to that dogma in the way that they would like.

    Under the Big Bang scenario, the development of the universe from an initial point of immense energy to a diverse collection of galaxies, stars and planetary systems takes many eons of time. While the theory indirectly implies that a being outside of space and time was at the origin of the universe, it directlyasserts, by scientific argument, the precise conditions under which the universe had to develop. One of those conditions is a time period in the billions of years.

    Fundamentalist Protestants, meanwhile, hold as dogma not just that God created the universe with a beginning in time, but also that He did so 6000 years ago and in a period of six, twenty-four hour days. For them, the time and the way that God created are just as dogmatic as the fact of God’s creation. This position today is commonly referred to as Young Earth Creationism (YEC).

    The YEC stance stems directly from the fact that Protestantism is a text-based religion and not an institution-based religion. Protestants do not start with a divine institution that informs them on the supernatural truths that are necessary to reach salvation. They rather start with a text (compiled and transmitted across the centuries by Catholics) and seek to derive a set of revealed truths from that text.

    They see that text as the only means which God has established to communicate saving truths to believers. This perspective is sometimes referred to as ‘biblicism’ because it makes the Bible the be all, end all source of religion. The Bible is made to play for Protestants the same role that the Church plays for Catholics. Just as the Church is the living voice of Jesus Christ for Catholics, so too the Bible is that voice for Protestants. 

    Those who over-divinize the Bible in this way tend to: 
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    • Interpret the Bible literally. To interpret the Bible literally here and allegorically there is to place oneself above the Bible and so above the divine mind.
    • Read the Bible as a science book as well as a spiritual book. The strictly literal sense of some passages of the Bible, especially Genesis, speaks of things which can be taken as scientific fact. Since deviating from the literal sense is to be irreverent to the Bible, those things must be taken as scientific fact.
    • Place the Bible above reason, instead of alongside it. When scientific data taken from a literal reading of God’s Word conflicts with scientific data taken from God’s nature, God’s Word must be upheld over God’s nature. It is human reason that has to interpret nature, but human reason does not have to be involved in taking a literal sense of the Bible. Because human reason can fail, the literal sense of the Bible is to be preferred over even the clearest conclusions of human reason.
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    Protestant biblicism sets fundamentalists on a beeline collision course with the Big Bang Theory. It leaves them with only two choices: reject all evidence for the Big Bang Theory or reject the Bible and Christian religion. An article from a 2013 issue of their Creation magazine sums it up this way:

    "The timescale in and of itself is not the important issue. It ultimately comes down to, 'Does the Bible actually mean what it says?' The issue is about the trustworthiness of Scripture—compromising with long ages severely undermines the whole Gospel."

    It undermines the whole Gospel IF you believe that a young age for the universe is part of the Gospel. And you believe that a young age for the universe is part of the Gospel only if you take your revealed truths from the Bible alone rather than take your revealed truths from Jesus Christ’s divine institution and then find them in the Bible.

    4. Mainstream Catholics
    This brings me to the Catholic reaction to the Big Bang Theory. I have already mentioned that the theory originated with a Belgian Catholic priest. Neither to him nor to the other Catholics of his day did the theory seem to violate any teaching of the Catholic faith. A short history of Catholic exegesis will help us understand why.

    For the Fathers of the Church, the first rule of Biblical interpretation is to maintain the literal sense unless it is shown to be false. When that happens, it becomes obvious that the literal sense cannot be the sense intended by Scripture, because Scripture is the Word of God and so without error.

    This rule teaches us that reason can be used to clarify the true meaning of Scripture. When the rule is followed, faith and reason, Bible and science, do not come into conflict. When the rule is not followed—when one is so attached to the literal sense that he clings to it in the face of contrary evidence—religion becomes unreasonable and subject to the mockery of the learned.

    The two greatest thinkers in Christian history—Sts. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas—sternly warned Catholics not to interpret Scripture against reason. Here is St. Thomas summarizing St. Augustine in the Summa:
    "Since Sacred Scripture can be interpreted in many ways, one must not hold so firmly to a given interpretation such that, once that interpretation is clearly shown to be false, he presume to assert that the false interpretation is Scripture’s meaning, lest, by doing so, he expose Scripture to ridicule by non-believers, and close off for them the path to belief."

    There have been many Catholic Scripture scholars in Church history who have interpreted Genesis 1 in a literal sense. They did so, however, in the spirit of the primal interpretational rule. As such, they were willing to cast aside a strictly literal sense if strong evidence was found to contradict it. They understood that certain supernatural truths of Genesis were non-negotiable—one God as creator of everything from nothing, creation in time, the direct creation of man, the unity of the human race, man’s superiority over other creatures on earth and over the heavenly bodies, man’s state of original justice and his fall, etc. Natural truths not underpinning those supernatural truths, however, were negotiable.

    The time in which God created the universe and the way He had it develop are certainly among the negotiable truths, since whether God created in a long period of time or a short period changes nothing of the Catholic Faith. It was for this reason that the Fathers were fairly unanimous on the religious truths taught by Genesis 1, but were quite varied in their opinions on the scientific truths taught by the same.

    St. Augustine’s opinion, the one favored by St. Thomas, was that God created everything at once, not in a period of six days. For him, the six day description was a teaching tool used by the sacred author to communicate religious truths in the most effective way possible.

    In our age, a series of Popes have written encyclicals on Scripture clarifying the relationship between the Bible and science. Leo XIII was particularly clear on this question when he wrote the following in Providentissimus Deus
    "[T]he sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Spirit ‘who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation.’ [St. Augustine, De Gen. ad litt., i., 9, 20] Hence they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science."

    In the end, Catholics have freedom to embrace or reject the Big Bang Theory, for the Church considers it to be a question of science, not of religion. No doubt, most Protestants hold the same opinion. The difference, however, is that Protestants consistent with the spirit of their religion will read the Bible as a science book, while Catholics consistent with the spirit of Catholicism will not. The savvy Catholic exegete, on the contrary, will be careful to protect both faith and reason in his interpretation of the Bible, in order to avoid portraying religion as an exercise in irrationality.

    None of this, of course, is an attempt on my part to encourage Catholics to embrace the Big Bang Theory. It is rather an attempt to encourage them to reject theories that can only appear irrational in the face of today’s scientific knowledge.

    Since the Big Bang Theory is a scientific theory, it needs to be considered on the basis of its scientific merits. We will do this shortly, but only after first mentioning that Pope Pius XII openly endorsed the theory and considered it to provide support for the opening words of Genesis 1. In an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1951, he examined four pieces of scientific evidence pointing to a 5-10 billion year age of the universe. Then, he stated the following:
    "Although these figures may seem astounding, nevertheless, even to the simplest of the faithful, they bring no new or different concept from the one they learned in the opening words of Genesis: ‘In the beginning . . .’, that is to say, at the beginning of things in time. The figures We have quoted clothe these words in a concrete and almost mathematical expression, while from them there springs forth a new source of consolation for those who share the esteem of the Apostle for that divinely-inspired Scripture, which is always useful ‘for teaching, for reproving, for correcting, for instructing’ (II Tim. iii, 6)."

    5. Scientific evidence
    Einstein did not perform any experimentation in order to propose his Special and General Theories of Relativity. He rather started with the hypothetical situation that the same physical laws hold true in relation to every possible observer in the universe, no matter his location or state of motion. From there, Einstein determined in detail what sort of universe that would be and how measurements of motion should take place in such a universe. But it remained to be seen, through experimentation, if Einstein’s hypothetical universe is the one in which we actually exist.

    We already noted two confirmations of Einstein’s theory in part 1 of this article. But they did not concern that aspect of the theory predicting that the universe is expanding. Experimental confirmation for this had wait for the work of Edwin Hubble. In the 1920s, he was spending many nighttime hours seated in a wicker chair, peering into a new 100-inch telescope at the Mount Wilson Observatory near Los Angeles. What he discovered revolutionized our view of the universe.

    The light traveling so fast, so far, and so long through space to arrive at the eye of an avid astronomer carries with it precious information. The most important quality of the light is its wavelength, which is either stretched out or compressed. If the light is stretched out, it is said to be red-shifted, because the light has a wavelength closer to the red end of the visible spectrum of light. If the light is compressed, it is said to be blue-shifted, because it has a wavelength closer to the blue end of the visible spectrum.

    When an astronomer detects red-shifted light in his telescope, he knows that the heavenly body emitting the light is moving away from the earth. When he detects blue-shifted light, it is because the star, galaxy, or whatever is moving towards the Earth.

    Hubble, after carefully observing numerous heavenly bodies, was able to draw the following conclusions:
    [/font][/size]

    • Practically all the light viewed in a telescope is red-shifted. This means that heavenly bodies are moving away from the Earth and also from one another. In other words, the universe is expanding.
    • The heavenly bodies with greater redshift are farther away from the Earth, while the ones with less redshift are closer. And because redshift corresponds to the speed of the body emitting light, the bodies that are farther from the Earth are moving faster than the ones that are closer. This indicates that the speed of the universe’s expansion is increasing over time.
    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]

    Hubble was not just able to establish the expansion of the universe and, to a certain degree, the rate of that expansion. He was also able to peer into its history. Looking into a telescope is like looking back in time, because we are really seeing planets and stars at the time that they emitted the light that is reaching us, not as they are at the present moment. For instance, it takes light from the sun eight minutes to reach Earth, and so we are seeing the sun eight minutes in the past whenever we look at it in our backyard telescopes. By observing thousands of space objects, Hubble was able to see stars and galaxies at different stages of development and, ultimately, the universe itself at different stages of development. From this data, he was able to construct a famous ‘tuning fork’ diagram to classify different types of galaxies. Two other astronomers named Hertzsprung and Russell developed a diagram tracking the life cycle of stars, according to their color, brightness and temperature.

    By the 1940s, Hubble’s empirical evidence was strongly swaying scientific minds towards acceptance of the Big Bang model. Some dyed-in-the-wool universe-deifying types, however, were still desperately supporting the Steady State model. Fred Hoyle and his cohort now had to admit that the universe was expanding and so noticeably unsteady in its dimensions. But they would not admit that the total matter of the universe was thinning out. They were sure that the density of the universe stayed the same, even with the universe expanding. As a result, they assisted the universe to be steady by claiming that one hydrogen atom per cubic meter of the universe is being created from nothing every 300,000 years and so the density of the universe always remains the same. When they said ‘created from nothing’ here, they were not saying created by God from nothing. They were saying that nothing created something—hydrogen atoms—from nothing. It was an act of scientistic ideological desperation which I did not think could possibly have a parallel until I read Lawrence Krauss’ book A Universe from Nothing.

    Regardless, the atheist scientists were clinging so desperately to their fideistic religion that the Big Bang really needed some explosive evidence in order to permanently steady the fate of the Steady State Theory in a state of oblivion. Such evidence came in 1964, but before getting to it, we have to first backtrack quickly to Fr. Lemaître. 

    Around the time the Belgian priest was speaking about the possibility of the universe starting as a primeval atom, he suggested that there might be a way of empirically checking his theory. Some of the energy of the Big Bang would form into stars and galaxies, but surely not all of it. Where would the rest be? It would simply be in the space between the stars and galaxies. In other words, if there was a Big Bang in the beginning, then we would expect there to be leftover radiation from the Big Bang pervading all of space, to this day.

    The radiation that Fr. Lemaître predicted, today called Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR), was discovered at Bell Labs in New Jersey, when technology was just becoming sufficiently advanced to do transcontinental television transmissions. Two scientists, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, were testing a microwave receiver which they were pointing at the sky to receive the transmissions. No matter which direction they pointed the receiver, however, they noted some interference, a faint microwave signal that sounded like a hiss in their earphones. After looking high and low for the source of the problem in their device—and not finding it—they went down the road to Princeton University and were told that, in all likelihood, they were listening to a very distant echo of what once was a big bang.

    The little whimper from the Big Bang—and the subsequent mapping of the CMBR by three different satellite probes—was like the tolling of a death knell for any and all theories trying to deprive the universe of a beginning or of change. It did not, of course, signal the end of scientistic atheists; it only forced them into deeper recesses of irrationality. As it were from a cavern of darkness, in sharp contrast to the bright light of the universe’s birth, they spout out the theory—no, the hallucination—that universes spontaneously pop into existence without a cause. They seem to find that idea more comforting than that supremely sane and certain sentence, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” [/font][/size]



    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #37 on: February 27, 2018, 03:07:01 PM »
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  • There is not a fig of difference between the atheist story of the Big Bang and that of Fr Robinson and other 'intellectual Catholics.' Fortunately others have addressed all that is in his diatribe above and shown that it is not only Einsteinian 'nonsense' but 'simple nonsense.' Accordingly I am willing over the next few days to illustrate what Fr Robinson is trying to convince others of is no more scientific evidence for anything, but has long been falsified.

    Let me begin with Einstein:


    ‘The third and most important reason [to study this chapter well] is that he [Einstein and his theories of relativity] provides another opportunity to show up the fallacy of the general belief that modern science, in every field but perhaps especially in mathematics and physics, is so complicated that it cannot be understood by the non-specialist, and that the layman has no choice but to rely on the words of experts with superior intelligence and training. Stripped of its disguises, which as with other science and elite professions are mostly jargon and bluff, Relativity, whether Special Theory [STR] or General Theory [GTR], involves no major challenge to the intellect in order to be understood. [Einstein’s] Relativity is not merely nonsense, it is simple nonsense; and the only difficulty in seeing this lies in bringing oneself to believe it possible that anything so generally accepted by so many intelligent people really can be such obvious nonsense.’--- N.M. Gwynne: Einstein and Modern Physics, p.7.



    Fr Robinsdon writes:
    The Theory of Relativity quickly received several empirical confirmations, one being that it could calculate the orbit of Mercury around the sun with perfect accuracy, whereas the same calculation using Newton’s theory of gravitation contained statistical error.


    Orbits remember; were measured by Domenico Cassini as Cassinian ovals and not Keplerian compromise ellipses, a fact that Fr robinson never heard of. The problem with Mercury’s perihelion then, is that it is not real but based on a false mathematical elliptical orbit of Kepler and Newton, whereas there is no sliding or shifting in Cassinian ovals. Nevertheless, to ‘solve’ this illusion Einstein used another newly invented incomprehensible mathematical system, the tensor calculus of the mathematicians Ricci and Levi-Civita. To say this exercise proved the GTR should now be seen for what it is; wishful thinking.

         But here is something else so obvious that we cannot pass this supposed proof for the GTR without pointing it out. If Einstein’s whirlpool theory is correct, and Mercury gets sucked in to a spiral causing problems with its supposed orbit, how come all the other planets in Einstein's whirlpool theory seem to be immune from similar effects? Are they too not whirling around in this same spiral? Did all these planets come out squeaky-smooth in their ‘elliptical’ orbits when Einstein’s formula was used for the new astronomy?   


    Fr Robinson states as PROOF for his Big Bang theology:
    The most important confirmation of Einstein’s theory was Sir Arthur Eddington’s observation of a star shift during a solar eclipse in West Africa in 1919, a shift predicted by the theory of relativity

    My Answer:

    A camera was set up; steady as a rock. Photographs of the sky were taken just before the eclipse. Shortly afterwards the sun and moon converged, leaving all in darkness. A second series of photographs were taken. Then it was back to the laboratory for development and comparisons. There were 43 photographic plates in all; the Sobral team took 27 and the Principe team took 16. Fifteen of these, however, were discarded because they were clouded, no use for their purpose. The conclusion, well first let us see the propaganda that Fr Robinson fell for:

    ‘Eddington found that light rays which had left the surface of stars thousands of years ago and had been bent by the curved space near the Sun only eight minutes previously, passed through the lens and exposed the photograph plates just where Einstein said they would. One of the most remarkable experiments in scientific history had been completed. The results of the eclipse expedition were presented by the Astronomer Royal at a meeting of the Royal Society on 6th November 1919 [announcing the observers had confirmed Einstein’s theory], and Einstein became a national hero overnight. Headlines in the New York Times suggested that a new Universe had been discovered… and this time the newspaper hype was not exaggerated. A world weary from war embraced the quiet and eccentric scientist, sitting in his study in Berlin with a pencil and pad, who had figured out the great plan of the Almighty for the entire Universe.’[1]

    Keep on reading however, and we find the following tucked into the corner of the next page: ‘Many critics said the results were inconclusive, that the possibility of error in the star measurements was too great, so the scepticism continued.’ But note ‘Einstein became a national hero’ anyway, and the New York Times did suggest ‘that a new Universe had been discovered.’

         If the theory is true, then all the stars positioned near the sun should have been displaced towards the sun. They were not. The stars in fact were displaced in the photographs in every conceivable direction, this way, that way, and every which way, but a long way from showing Einstein’s GTR to be true.

    ‘To make the observations come out to support Einstein, Eddington and the others took the Sobral 4-inch results as the main findings and used the two Principe plates as supporting evidence while ignoring the 18 plates taken by the Sobral astrographic… On 6th Nov. 1919, Sir Joseph Thomson, the President of the Royal Society, chaired a meeting at which he said: “It is difficult for the audience to weigh fully the meaning of the figures that have been put before us, but the Astronomer Royal and Professor Eddington have studied the material carefully, and they regard the evidence as decisively in favour of the larger value for the displacement.” ’[2]


    Ah yes, the Royal Society, doing what it was established to do, dictate what ‘science’ the world was to believe, and what it was to ignore. They approved Newton’s eureka mind-conclusions and then Einstein’s ‘proofs.’ ‘The results of the measurements confirmed the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner,’ wrote Einstein in his paper already quoted.

    Rejection and Rebuttals

    Dr Arthur Lynch, the distinguished mathematician, let the cat out of the bag:

    ‘The results of the observations are shown on a chart, by a series of dots, and by tracing connections between these dots it is possible to obtain a “curve” from which the law of deviation is inferred. But the actual charts show only an irregular group of dots, through which, if it be possible to draw a curve that seems to confirm the theory of Relativity, it is equally possible to draw a curve which runs counter to the theory. Neither curve has any justification.’[3]


    And if that is not enough to show a ‘scientific’ farce, Professor Charles Lane Poor really spilled the beans on the tricksters:

    ‘The table showing displacement of individual stars shows that on average the observed deflection, as given by the British astronomers, differ by 19% from the calculated Einstein value. In the place of two stars the agreement between theory and observation is very nearly perfect… in other cases however, the differences range from 11% to 60% [from the calculated Einstein value]. The diagrams show clearly that the observed displacements of the stars do not agree in direction with the predicted Einstein effect. This point was nowhere mentioned in the report… But, after the measurements of the plates became available for study, several investigators called attention to this fact of a radial disagreement in direction between the observed and the predicted displacements.’[4]

     

    Professor Poor then goes on to tell us that the Einsteinian relativists tried to claim the differences between the predicted and observed shifts are no greater than should be expected. Consequently, ‘This very question was investigated by Dr Henry Davies Russell, of Princeton University, a most ardent upholder of relativity theory.’ After ‘an exhaustive examination’ he found the differences are real, and are contradictory.

    ‘The results given in the Report for the observations are the means (average) of the radial components (direction towards or away from the sun) only, nothing whatever being given to the directions in which the actual displacements took place. The Einstein theory requires a deflection, not only of a certain definite component, but also in a certain observed direction. To discuss the amount of the observed deflection is to discuss only one-half of the whole question and the less important half at that. The observed deflection might agree exactly with the predicted amount, but, if it were in the wrong direction, it would disprove, not prove, the Relativity theory. You cannot reach Washington from New York by travelling south, even if you do go the requisite number of miles.’ --- Gravitation v Relativity
    But the Royal Society, as we have already seen, has long been taking homo consensus to Washington from New York travelling south, west and east.

    ‘Now the diagrams of the seven best plates, the seven taken at Sobral with the 4-inch camera, show clearly and definitely that the observed deflections are not in the directions required by the Einstein theory… The relativists either totally disregard these discordances, or invoke the heating effect of the sun to distort the vision by just the proper amount to explain them away.’ --- Gravitation V Relativity.

    Find any old ad hoc that can be said to cause the problem by ‘just the proper amount’ and that explains it. Recall this ploy was used to explain the Airy and Michelson & Morley failures. But then Professor Poor offered another solution to ‘starlight-bending.’ one Cassini was well aware of back in 1650.

    ‘Further… there are other perfectly possible explanations of a deflection of a ray of light; explanations based on every-day, common-place grounds. Abnormal refraction in the Earth’s atmosphere is one; refraction of the solar envelope is another… Such is the evidence, and are the observations, which according to Einstein, “confirm the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner.’[5]

    [1] J.P. McEvoy and O. Zarate: op. cit., pp.43-44.
    [2] H. Collins and T. Pinch: The Golem, p.51, and quoting J. Earman, and C. Glymour, ‘Relativity and Eclipses: The British Eclipse Expedition of 1919 and their Predecessors,’ Historical Studies in the Physical Sciences, 11 (1), 49-85.
    [3] Arthur Lynch: The Case Against Einstein, 1932, p.264.
    [4] C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.
    [5] C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.




    Offline Merry

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #38 on: February 27, 2018, 08:44:47 PM »
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  • Fr. Robinson is way in over his head.  And he doesn't even know it.
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #39 on: February 27, 2018, 09:01:51 PM »
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  • There is not a fig of difference between the atheist story of the Big Bang and that of Fr Robinson and other 'intellectual Catholics.' Fortunately others have addressed all that is in his diatribe above and shown that it is not only Einsteinian 'nonsense' but 'simple nonsense.' Accordingly I am willing over the next few days to illustrate what Fr Robinson is trying to convince others of is no more scientific evidence for anything, but has long been falsified.

    Let me begin with Einstein:


    ‘The third and most important reason [to study this chapter well] is that he [Einstein and his theories of relativity] provides another opportunity to show up the fallacy of the general belief that modern science, in every field but perhaps especially in mathematics and physics, is so complicated that it cannot be understood by the non-specialist, and that the layman has no choice but to rely on the words of experts with superior intelligence and training. Stripped of its disguises, which as with other science and elite professions are mostly jargon and bluff, Relativity, whether Special Theory [STR] or General Theory [GTR], involves no major challenge to the intellect in order to be understood. [Einstein’s] Relativity is not merely nonsense, it is simple nonsense; and the only difficulty in seeing this lies in bringing oneself to believe it possible that anything so generally accepted by so many intelligent people really can be such obvious nonsense.’--- N.M. Gwynne: Einstein and Modern Physics, p.7.



    Fr Robinsdon writes:
    The Theory of Relativity quickly received several empirical confirmations, one being that it could calculate the orbit of Mercury around the sun with perfect accuracy, whereas the same calculation using Newton’s theory of gravitation contained statistical error.


    Orbits remember; were measured by Domenico Cassini as Cassinian ovals and not Keplerian compromise ellipses, a fact that Fr robinson never heard of. The problem with Mercury’s perihelion then, is that it is not real but based on a false mathematical elliptical orbit of Kepler and Newton, whereas there is no sliding or shifting in Cassinian ovals. Nevertheless, to ‘solve’ this illusion Einstein used another newly invented incomprehensible mathematical system, the tensor calculus of the mathematicians Ricci and Levi-Civita. To say this exercise proved the GTR should now be seen for what it is; wishful thinking.

        But here is something else so obvious that we cannot pass this supposed proof for the GTR without pointing it out. If Einstein’s whirlpool theory is correct, and Mercury gets sucked in to a spiral causing problems with its supposed orbit, how come all the other planets in Einstein's whirlpool theory seem to be immune from similar effects? Are they too not whirling around in this same spiral? Did all these planets come out squeaky-smooth in their ‘elliptical’ orbits when Einstein’s formula was used for the new astronomy?  


    Fr Robinson states as PROOF for his Big Bang theology:
    The most important confirmation of Einstein’s theory was Sir Arthur Eddington’s observation of a star shift during a solar eclipse in West Africa in 1919, a shift predicted by the theory of relativity

    My Answer:

    A camera was set up; steady as a rock. Photographs of the sky were taken just before the eclipse. Shortly afterwards the sun and moon converged, leaving all in darkness. A second series of photographs were taken. Then it was back to the laboratory for development and comparisons. There were 43 photographic plates in all; the Sobral team took 27 and the Principe team took 16. Fifteen of these, however, were discarded because they were clouded, no use for their purpose. The conclusion, well first let us see the propaganda that Fr Robinson fell for:

    ‘Eddington found that light rays which had left the surface of stars thousands of years ago and had been bent by the curved space near the Sun only eight minutes previously, passed through the lens and exposed the photograph plates just where Einstein said they would. One of the most remarkable experiments in scientific history had been completed. The results of the eclipse expedition were presented by the Astronomer Royal at a meeting of the Royal Society on 6th November 1919 [announcing the observers had confirmed Einstein’s theory], and Einstein became a national hero overnight. Headlines in the New York Times suggested that a new Universe had been discovered… and this time the newspaper hype was not exaggerated. A world weary from war embraced the quiet and eccentric scientist, sitting in his study in Berlin with a pencil and pad, who had figured out the great plan of the Almighty for the entire Universe.’[1]

    Keep on reading however, and we find the following tucked into the corner of the next page: ‘Many critics said the results were inconclusive, that the possibility of error in the star measurements was too great, so the scepticism continued.’ But note ‘Einstein became a national hero’ anyway, and the New York Times did suggest ‘that a new Universe had been discovered.’

        If the theory is true, then all the stars positioned near the sun should have been displaced towards the sun. They were not. The stars in fact were displaced in the photographs in every conceivable direction, this way, that way, and every which way, but a long way from showing Einstein’s GTR to be true.

    ‘To make the observations come out to support Einstein, Eddington and the others took the Sobral 4-inch results as the main findings and used the two Principe plates as supporting evidence while ignoring the 18 plates taken by the Sobral astrographic… On 6th Nov. 1919, Sir Joseph Thomson, the President of the Royal Society, chaired a meeting at which he said: “It is difficult for the audience to weigh fully the meaning of the figures that have been put before us, but the Astronomer Royal and Professor Eddington have studied the material carefully, and they regard the evidence as decisively in favour of the larger value for the displacement.” ’[2]


    Ah yes, the Royal Society, doing what it was established to do, dictate what ‘science’ the world was to believe, and what it was to ignore. They approved Newton’s eureka mind-conclusions and then Einstein’s ‘proofs.’ ‘The results of the measurements confirmed the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner,’ wrote Einstein in his paper already quoted.

    Rejection and Rebuttals

    Dr Arthur Lynch, the distinguished mathematician, let the cat out of the bag:

    ‘The results of the observations are shown on a chart, by a series of dots, and by tracing connections between these dots it is possible to obtain a “curve” from which the law of deviation is inferred. But the actual charts show only an irregular group of dots, through which, if it be possible to draw a curve that seems to confirm the theory of Relativity, it is equally possible to draw a curve which runs counter to the theory. Neither curve has any justification.’[3]


    And if that is not enough to show a ‘scientific’ farce, Professor Charles Lane Poor really spilled the beans on the tricksters:

    ‘The table showing displacement of individual stars shows that on average the observed deflection, as given by the British astronomers, differ by 19% from the calculated Einstein value. In the place of two stars the agreement between theory and observation is very nearly perfect… in other cases however, the differences range from 11% to 60% [from the calculated Einstein value]. The diagrams show clearly that the observed displacements of the stars do not agree in direction with the predicted Einstein effect. This point was nowhere mentioned in the report… But, after the measurements of the plates became available for study, several investigators called attention to this fact of a radial disagreement in direction between the observed and the predicted displacements.’[4]

     

    Professor Poor then goes on to tell us that the Einsteinian relativists tried to claim the differences between the predicted and observed shifts are no greater than should be expected. Consequently, ‘This very question was investigated by Dr Henry Davies Russell, of Princeton University, a most ardent upholder of relativity theory.’ After ‘an exhaustive examination’ he found the differences are real, and are contradictory.

    ‘The results given in the Report for the observations are the means (average) of the radial components (direction towards or away from the sun) only, nothing whatever being given to the directions in which the actual displacements took place. The Einstein theory requires a deflection, not only of a certain definite component, but also in a certain observed direction. To discuss the amount of the observed deflection is to discuss only one-half of the whole question and the less important half at that. The observed deflection might agree exactly with the predicted amount, but, if it were in the wrong direction, it would disprove, not prove, the Relativity theory. You cannot reach Washington from New York by travelling south, even if you do go the requisite number of miles.’ --- Gravitation v Relativity
    But the Royal Society, as we have already seen, has long been taking homo consensus to Washington from New York travelling south, west and east.

    ‘Now the diagrams of the seven best plates, the seven taken at Sobral with the 4-inch camera, show clearly and definitely that the observed deflections are not in the directions required by the Einstein theory… The relativists either totally disregard these discordances, or invoke the heating effect of the sun to distort the vision by just the proper amount to explain them away.’ --- Gravitation V Relativity.

    Find any old ad hoc that can be said to cause the problem by ‘just the proper amount’ and that explains it. Recall this ploy was used to explain the Airy and Michelson & Morley failures. But then Professor Poor offered another solution to ‘starlight-bending.’ one Cassini was well aware of back in 1650.

    ‘Further… there are other perfectly possible explanations of a deflection of a ray of light; explanations based on every-day, common-place grounds. Abnormal refraction in the Earth’s atmosphere is one; refraction of the solar envelope is another… Such is the evidence, and are the observations, which according to Einstein, “confirm the theory in a thoroughly satisfactory manner.’[5]

    [1] J.P. McEvoy and O. Zarate: op. cit., pp.43-44.
    [2] H. Collins and T. Pinch: The Golem, p.51, and quoting J. Earman, and C. Glymour, ‘Relativity and Eclipses: The British Eclipse Expedition of 1919 and their Predecessors,’ Historical Studies in the Physical Sciences, 11 (1), 49-85.
    [3] Arthur Lynch: The Case Against Einstein, 1932, p.264.
    [4] C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.
    [5] C.L. Poor: Gravitation V Relativity, pp.218-226.
    God bless you cassini for your magnificently well informed/educated (and inspiring) analysis!

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #40 on: February 27, 2018, 09:02:19 PM »
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  • Similarly, it's quite in fashion these days to believe that aliens seeded the earth, or a meteorite had the building blocks of life, and one of these things seeded our primeval oceans. But this just takes the question of "the origins of life" back one step -- who created the stuff on the meteorite, or how did the *aliens* come into being? It doesn't answer anything. All it does is make it "impossible" for us to determine the true origins of life (since now the "scene of the crime" is an unreachable planet hundreds of light-years from us), and so the Evolutionists are happy.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #41 on: February 28, 2018, 06:40:59 AM »
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  • LET US CONTINUE WITH THE 3RD PROOF FOR EINSTEIN'S INPUT INTO BIG BANG CREATION FR ROBINSON WOULD TELL HIS READERS TO BELIEVE:

    (3) The Third ‘Proof’ for Relativity

    The experimental confirmation of the GTR that the lines of a spectrum (the ‘rainbow’ of any light) should be displaced when emitted in a strong gravitational field, causing the light, as it loses some of its energy when moving away from the field, to become redder. Sir Arthur Eddington, having conned the world with his ‘bent’ interpretation of the starlight, then tried to do the same with their ‘red-shift’ as the third proof for relativity. To spare the reader from intellectual embarrassment at not being able to comprehend this proof clearly, we will curtail this explanation to a sample amount only. Any that wish to study it in total may acquire Eddington’s book and read it all:

    ‘Displacement of the Fraunhofer lines (The dark lines of the spectrum of sunlight). Consider a number of similar atoms vibrating at different points in the region. Let the atoms be momentarily at rest in our coordinate system (r, θ, Ø, t). The test of similarity of the atoms is that corresponding intervals shall be equal, and accordingly the interval of vibration of all the atoms will be the same. Since the atoms are at rest we set dr, dθ, dØ = 0 in (38.8) so that ds² = ydi². Thus the times of vibrations of the differently placed atoms will be inversely proportional to y. Consequently the waves are received at the same time-periods as they are emitted. ’

    Want more? OK, but first remember that no one has ever seen an atom or identified its makeup. Everything to do with atoms is theory and assumption only, not necessarily scientific fact. To keep our sanity though, let us skip some of this ‘stuff’ and try to get to the point:

    ‘We are therefore able to compare the periods of the waves received from them, and can verify experimentally their dependence on the value of y at the place where they were emitted. Naturally, the most hopeful test is a comparison of the waves received from a solar and a terrestrial atom whose period should be in the ratio of 1.00000212:1. For the wavelength 4000 Aº, this amounts to a relative displacement of 0.0082 Aº of the respective spectral lines. The verdict of experiment is not yet such as to secure universal assent; but it is now distinctly more favourable to Einstein’s theory than when Space, Time and Gravitation was written.’

    So, Einstein’s third proof, ‘is not yet such as to secure universal assent,’ which is another way of saying that the proof is no proof at all. Desperate to convince a few more, Eddington continued:

    ‘The quantity dt is merely an auxiliary quantity introduced through the equation 938.80 which defines it.... The absolute quantity, ds, the interval of vibration, is not carried to us unchanged, but becomes greatly modified as the waves take their course through the non-Euclidean space-time. It is in transmission through the solar system that the absolute difference is introduced into the waves, which the experiment hopes [hopes?] to detect. The argument refers to similar atoms. And the question remains whether, for example, the hydrogen atom on the sun is truly similar to the hydrogen atom on the Earth. Strictly speaking it cannot be exactly similar, because it is in a different kind of space-time, in which it would be impossible to make a finite structure exactly similar to ours existing in the space-time near the Earth. But if the interval of vibration of the hydrogen atom is modified by the kind of space-time in which it lies, the difference must depend on some invariant of the space-time.’

    Impressed, we bet you are, but not Professor Arthur Lynch:

    ‘“And that’s why your daughter is dumb” as the quack doctor of Moliere concluded, though his arguments seem to me a model of cohesion and clarity compared with this of Einstein. It may be my own deficiency, and if, dear reader, you have made good sense out of this, I admit that your intellect soars at a range inaccessible to me.’

    For a more sober version of the Earth-atom/sun-atom ‘proof’ and how it was established let us return to Collins and Pinch’s The Golem:

    ‘The derivations of the quantitative predictions were beset with even more difficulties than the calculations of the bending of light rays. The experimental observations conducted both before and after 1919, were more inconclusive. Yet after the interpretation of the eclipse observations had come firmly down on the side of Einstein, scientists suddenly began to see confirmation of the red-shift prediction where before they had seen only confusion… Once the seed crystal has been offered up, the crystallisation of the new scientific culture happens at breakneck speed. Doubt about the red-shift turned into certainty.’ 

    Collins and Pinch end their story of the ‘proofs’ for the GTR with a quote from philosophers of science John Earman and Clark Glymour. Kicking into touch, they preferred to stick with relativity rather than reject it on the basis of their findings, to keep their jobs no doubt. Obviously they did not want to be exiled from the fee-paying institutions that control science.

    ‘Appropriately understood, we ourselves see no reason to disagree with this [relativity as a truth] … This curious sequence of reasons might be cause enough for despair on the part of those who see in science a model for objectivity and rationality. That mood should be lightened by the reflection that the theory in which Eddington placed his faith because he thought it beautiful and profound, and possibly, because he thought that it would be best for the world if it were true, this theory, so far as we know, still holds the truth about space, time and gravity.’

    Finally, their opinion on the credibility of Einstein’s relativity:

    ‘The general theory of relativity is a complicated business. It is said that even by 1919 there were only two people who fully understood it: Einstein and Eddington. (This, let us hasten to add, is based on a quip of Eddington’s.) Even to this day, theorists are not completely united about what follows from Einstein’s theory…’

    IMAGINE SUBJECTING THE GENESIS CREATION TO THE ABOVE

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #42 on: February 28, 2018, 06:46:37 AM »
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  • ‘Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that we can refer “not improperly” to the initial singularity [the Big Bang] as an act of creation [As Fr Robinson does in his much publicised 'Catholic creation' book tries to confirm]. What conclusions can we draw from it? That a Creator exists? Suppose still, for the sake of argument, that this, too, is conceded. The problem now is twofold. Is this creator theologically relevant? Can this creator serve the purpose of faith?

         My answer to the first question is decidedly negative. A creator proved by [Big Bang] cosmology is a cosmological agent that has none of the properties a believer attributes to God. Even supposing one can consistently say the cosmological creator is beyond space and time, this creature cannot be understood as a person or as the Word made flesh or as the Son of God come down to the world in order to save mankind. Pascal rightly referred to this latter Creator as the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,” not of philosophers and scientists. To believe that cosmology proves the existence of a creator and then to attribute to this creator the properties of the Creation as a person is to make an illegitimate inference, to commit a category fallacy. My answer to the second question is also negative. Suppose we can grant what my answer to the first question intends to deny. That is, suppose we can understand the God of [Big Bang] cosmologists as the God of theologians and believers. Such a God cannot (and should not) serve the purpose of faith, because, being a God proved by cosmology he [or it] should be at the mercy of cosmology. Like any other scientific discipline that, to use Pope John Paul II’s words, proceeds with “methodological seriousness,” cosmology is always revisable. It might then happen that a creator proved on the basis of a theory will be refuted when that theory is refuted. Can the God of believers be exposed to the risk of such an inconsistent enterprise as science?’[1]



    [1] Marcello Pera: The god of theologians and the god of astronomers, as found in The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, Cambridge University Press, 1998, pp.378, 379.



    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #43 on: February 28, 2018, 12:04:57 PM »
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  • Reviews for the books may be submitted at https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science

    Let's go for it!

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #44 on: February 28, 2018, 12:17:12 PM »
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  • Einstein, the atheist and major plagiarist, led a very immoral sɛҳuąƖ life.  His sɛҳuąƖ "relativism." among other negative aspects of his life including its Jєωιѕн overlay, may well have had a major impact in "relativizing" his scientific thinking or as some would say scientific fantasizing; a kind of scientific though/fantasy that served as the remedy/pretext for pushing aside the up till then extremely solid real scientific evidence that the Earth was motionless in space with the universe carried by the aether revolving once every day around it.