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Author Topic: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"  (Read 6142 times)

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Offline Fanny

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Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 10:06:17 PM »
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  • He's from KY.  Nope.  I'm done.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #16 on: February 21, 2018, 05:14:45 AM »
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  • Sorry Mr G I did not see that you had posted this subject earlier. Accordingly I will repost my initial reaction to the idea that any book using the BIG BANG as a creative act is reintroducing many of the NOW hidden Pythagorean heresies the Church Fathers spent centuries trying to eliminate. I began with the following:

    Interview with Fr. Paul Robinson

    Fr. Paul Robinson, a native of Kentucky, received a Masters in Engineering Mathematics and Computer Science from the University of Louisville. After two years in the field, he entered a Roman Catholic seminary to discern his vocation. Since his ordination in 2006, he has been teaching Thomistic philosophy and theology.

    What about science?
    'In fact, I am harder on modern scientists than I am on Islam and Luther, because some of them take irrationality to its furthest extreme. For instance, 20th century science provided solid, empirical evidence that our universe began with a huge burst of energy 13.7 billion years ago. This put atheist scientists in a terrible dilemma, because they had to admit that our universe, along with space and time, had a beginning. That would seem to make it obvious that an incredibly powerful cause had to be at the origin of our universe.'


    Let me begin with the above and we will get on to Fr Robinson's Einstein later. Needless to say, Father feels safe in the company of Pope Pius XII who on November 22, 1951 in a speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, called 'The Proofs for the Existence of God in the Light of Modern Natural Science.'

    44. It is undeniable that when a mind enlightened and enriched with modern scientific knowledge weighs this problem calmly, it feels drawn to break through the circle of completely independent or autochthonous matter, whether uncreated or self-created, and to ascend to a creating Spirit. With the same clear and critical look with which it examines and passes judgment on facts, it perceives and recognizes the work of creative omnipotence, whose power, set in motion by the mighty “Fiat” pronounced billions of years ago by the Creating Spirit, spread out over the universe, calling into existence with a gesture of generous love matter bursting with energy. In fact, it would seem that present-day science, with one sweeping step back across millions of centuries, has succeeded in bearing witness to that primordial “Fiat lux” uttered at the moment when, along with matter, there burst forth from nothing a sea of light and radiation, while the particles of chemical elements split and formed into millions of galaxies.’

    '20th century science provided solid, empirical evidence that our universe began with a huge burst of energy 13.7 billion years ago,' which must be the 'proofs in the light of modern science' according to Pope Pius XII.

    So what 'proofs' are these two men basing the Catholic Creator on? Why Hubble's 1912 red-shifts in starlight that science USED to prove the universe is expanding. Now if we forget many scientists who disputed this assumption (such as can be found in Professor Roberrt Gentry's Earth's Tiny Mystery.) that red-shifts do not necessarily show an expanding universe in  Fr Robinson's 'solid empirical evidence' for a Big Bang Creation, I bet both Pius XII and Fr Robinson did not know that in Copernicus's book De Revolutionibus he wrote that if God created a geocentric universe with the universe turning around the earth like a swing ride then we would find an expanding universe.

    In other words there is no solid evidence for any Big Bang. Now let us see the essence of a Big Bang Creator as explained by Professor Marcello Pera.

    ‘Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that we can refer “not improperly” to the initial singularity [the Big Bang] as an act of creation. What conclusions can we draw from it? That a Creator exists? Suppose still, for the sake of argument, that this, too, is conceded. The problem now is twofold. Is this creator theologically relevant? Can this creator serve the purpose of faith?
         My answer to the first question is decidedly negative. A creator proved by [Big Bang] cosmology is a cosmological agent that has none of the properties a believer attributes to God. Even supposing one can consistently say the cosmological creator is beyond space and time, this creature cannot be understood as a person or as the Word made flesh or as the Son of God come down to the world in order to save mankind. Pascal rightly referred to this latter Creator as the “God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not of philosophers and scientists. To believe that cosmology proves the existence of a creator and then to attribute to this creator the properties of the Creation as a person is to make an illegitimate inference, to commit a category fallacy. My answer to the second question is also negative. Suppose we can grant what my answer to the first question intends to deny. That is, suppose we can understand the God of [Big Bang] cosmologists as the God of theologians and believers. Such a God cannot (and should not) serve the purpose of faith, because, being a God proved by cosmology he [or it] should be at the mercy of cosmology. Like any other scientific discipline that, to use Pope John Paul II’s words, proceeds with “methodological seriousness,” cosmology is always revisable. It might then happen that a creator proved on the basis of a theory will be refuted when that theory is refuted. Can the God of believers be exposed to the risk of such an inconsistent enterprise as science?’[1]


    [1] Marcello Pera: The god of theologians and the god of astronomers, as found in The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, Cambridge University Press, 1998, pp.378, 379.

    MORE LATER.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 02:06:02 PM »
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  • Pope Francis and the God of Cosmologists and Evolutionists, now shared by Fr Robinson and Americam SSPX.
     
    ‘Vatican City, 27 October 2014 (VIS) – This morning the Holy Father attended the plenary session of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences held in the Casina Pio IV, during which he inaugurated a bust of Pope emeritus Benedict XVI, whom he described as “a great Pope. Great for the strength and penetration of his intelligence, great for his important contribution to theology, great for his love of the Church and of human beings, great for his virtue and religiosity”. He recalled that Benedict XVI was the first to invite a president of this Academy to participate in the Synod on new evangelisation, “aware of the importance of science in modern culture”. Pope Francis chose not to focus on the complex issue of the evolution of nature, the theme the Academy will consider during this session, emphasising however that “God and Christ walk with us and are also present in nature”. “When we read in Genesis the account of Creation,” Pope Francis said, “we risk imagining God as a magus, with a magic wand able to make everything. But it is not so. He created beings and allowed them to develop according to the internal laws that He gave to each one, so that they were able to develop and to arrive and their fullness of being. He gave autonomy to the beings of the Universe at the same time at which he assured them of his continuous presence, giving being to every reality. And so creation continued for centuries and centuries, millennia and millennia, until it became which we know today, precisely because God is not a demiurge or a conjurer, but the Creator who gives being to all things. The beginning of the world is not the work of chaos that owes its origin to another, but derives directly from a supreme Origin that creates out of love. The Big Bang, which nowadays is posited as the origin of the world, does not contradict the divine act of creating, but rather requires it. The evolution of nature does not contrast with the notion of Creation, as evolution presupposes the creation of beings that evolve.”’ --- Vatican Info Office.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    God is not a magician, waving a magic wand creating things,’ says Pope Francis and like-minded theistic evolutionists. Indeed He is not, for magicians are full of tricks and illusions. God does not need a magic wand; He simply created things immediately, complete according to its kind. Nevertheless, the comparison suggests that God did not, could not, create things complete and in working order. But Genesis tells us that is exactly what God did, one creation after another in a certain order, each depending on the former, over six days in which no development was at all necessary.
        We see then, the papacy of the Catholic Church over the last 300 years or so, have lost all faith in revelation and all attempts in the past to protect the flock from false philosophy as was/is their duty. Now if an angel from heaven were to appear before me and tell me to believe these popes I would tell that angel to go back to Hell. God gave me intelligence, the means to examine and reason. I have done that and am satisfied their moving-earth/fixed sun solar system has never falsified the decree of Pope Paul V in 1616.

    (1) “That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,” was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical, inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by the Fathers and theologians.”

    Nor did geologists ever prove the earth is millions of years old according to rock strata, an age falsified by geologist Guy Berthault who showed they were ignorant as to how strata was/is laid down. Unable to open their mouths in protest, totally unable to protect the Flock from false philosophy because of the 'embarrassment' of the Galileo U-turn, they let the Roman Martyrology fall into the same pit of myths as the biblical revelation on geocentrism. And so, when their masters in science said everything evolved, human PRIDE took over once again and like the heresy of heliocentrism they INVENTED a way out of biblical revelation as they did with the 1616 decree, allowing God to overcome the impossible gaps of evolution, God kept the evolving bits working until completed. Absolutely pathetic. But my aren't they popular among all the atheists in the Pontifical academy of Sciences.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #18 on: February 24, 2018, 08:31:32 AM »
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  • Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #19 on: February 25, 2018, 11:06:28 AM »
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  • Here is the latest Kolbe article on creation. These are the Catholic creationists Fr Robinson SSPX in his comments trying to support a Big Bang Genesis considers to be fundamentalist Protestants:

     
    Dear Friends of the Kolbe Center,
    Pax Christi!
    One of the many disturbing signs of "diabolical disorientation"--to use Sister Lucy of Fatima's phrase--within the contemporary Catholic community is the attempt by so many Catholic theologians to press the Angelic Doctor, St. Thomas Aquinas, into service as a proto-theistic evolutionist.  In his paper presented at our recent symposium in Rome on the special creation of Adam and Eve as the foundation of the Church's teaching on Holy Marriage, Fr. Thomas Crean, O.P., beautifully demonstrates the absurdity of this perverse abuse of the Angelic Doctor's writings.  I cannot reproduce the whole article in this newsletter, and I hope that you will read the entire paper on the Kolbe website here (with all of the footnotes), but I do want to highlight a few of the main truths contained in the paper. 
    In the first place, Fr. Crean underscores the fact that St. Thomas always treats Genesis 1-11 as true history. He writes:
    In discussing the question of whether paradise, as described in the second chapter of the book of Genesis, was a geographical place or simply an allegory of a spiritual truth, St Thomas Aquinas makes the following observation and rule:
    Those things which are said in Scripture about Paradise, are put forward in the style of a historical narrative; but whenever Scripture puts something forward in this way, the historical truth must be retained as the basis, and spiritual interpretations built upon it (STh 1a 102, 1).
     
    Indeed, it is apparent from the Angelic Doctor's treatment of Genesis, that everything stated by Moses must be accepted, as written, on God's authority, including all of those things that are above nature, i.e., supernatural.  As St. Thomas explains in the Summa:
    in all the statements that we make, we must follow the nature of things, except when things which are above nature have been communicated to us on the authority of God (STh 1a 99, 1).
    This is a fundamental principle often violated by so-called "Thomistic evolutionists," since they often attempt to give natural explanations for things that the sacred history of Genesis tells us on God's authority are or were "above nature."  For example, Thomistic evolutionists like to explain the origin of the human body as the result of a natural process of biological evolution through mutation and natural selection over hundreds of millions of years. But this would be anathema to the Angelic Doctor!  Indeed, as Fr. Crean explains, St. Thomas firmly held that Adam and Eve were formed immediately and supernaturally by God, body and soul.
    That the formation of our first parents was a work performed immediately by God, and outside the course of nature, is for the angelic doctor a matter both of revelation and of reason. It is a matter of revelation since the book of Genesis plainly presents God as forming a man from the slime or dust of the earth, and a woman from the rib or side of the man. He also quotes Ecclesiasticus 17: "God created man out of the earth (Deus de terra creavit hominem)." In his commentary on St Paul's epistle to the Romans, he remarks that one of the ways in which Adam was a "type" of Christ, is that just as Adam's body was formed without any sɛҳuąƖ activity, so Our Lord's body was formed from a Virgin.
     
    Fr. Crean emphasizes that the immediate formation of the bodies of our first parents--in total contradiction to the Thomistic evolutionists--was completely supernatural.  
    it is also, for St Thomas, a rational necessity that the bodies of our first parents were formed immediately by God, that is to say, miraculously (STh 1a 91, 2). No created power sufficed for the first formation of the human body. The angels cannot transform one material thing, for example dust, into another of a different nature, for example a human body; nor does the material world as a whole have the power to cause what he calls "a perfect animal" to exist, except as generated by other animals of the same species. The expression "perfect animal" here does not refer specifically to man; it is a technical phrase deriving from Aristotle, used to refer to an animal with all the senses and with the power of locomotion. Thus, a cat and a dog are perfect animals in this sense. Aquinas does not argue for the impossibility of a perfect animal being generated by the powers of nature except from parents of the same species; he seems to take it as an obvious truth of experience.  It is true that on St Thomas's general, metaphysical principles, it would be possible for God in His absolute power to use one animal as a mere instrument to generate another of a different species, for example miraculously to cause a cat to generate a dog; but such an act would be pointless and therefore contrary to what is called God's ordered power, that is, His power as considered in conjunction with His wisdom. In any case, as already said, Aquinas takes the immediate formation of the bodies of our first parents to be a truth plainly taught by Scripture.
     
    Needless to say, the Angelic Doctor's teaching on "perfect animals" flatly contradicts the conjectures of the theistic evolutionists, since it holds that only special creation by God could have produced the first of each kind of animal with senses and locomotion, creatures which, according to evolutionary mythology, evolved through mutation and natural selection from lower life-forms.
    Finally, most theistic evolutionists reinforce the mythology of "primitive" man and of "progress" that conditions Catholic youth to hold the past and the Tradition of the Church in contempt by teaching that the first human beings were simple creatures who "fell up into consciousness" after the final mutation that prepared their primate bodies-a philosophical absurdity!-to receive a human soul.  However, St. Thomas follows all of the Fathers of the Church in teaching that Adam and Eve were created in a state of physical and mental perfection, and in an exalted state of holiness:
    Their contemplation was higher than ours, and by means of it, they drew nearer to God than we do and so could in a clear way know more things about divine actions and mysteries than we can. For this reason, there was not in them a faith by which God is sought as being absent, in the way that He is sought by us. For He was more present to them by the light of wisdom than He is to us, even though He was not present to them as He is to the blessed through the light of glory (STh, 2a2ae 5, 1 ad 1).
     
    In our book I Have Spoken to You from Heavenwe demonstrate that the Angelic Doctor's fidelity to the literal historical of truth Genesis 1-11 extends even to the meaning of "day" in Genesis One, for in the section on Creation in the Summa Theologica, towards the end of his years as a theological writer, St. Thomas clearly teaches that
    The words "one day" are used when day is first instituted, to denote that one day is made up of twenty-four hours. Hence, by mentioning "one," the measure of a natural day is fixed. (STh, Ia q. 74 a. 3).
    I hope and pray that all readers of this newsletter will read Fr. Crean's excellent paper in its entirety and be prepared to defend St. Thomas against any and all attempts to press him into service on behalf of theistic evolution!
    Yours in Christ through the Immaculata,
    Hugh Owen
    P.S. Our annual regional leaders retreat will be held at Conception Seminary in Conception, Missouri, from June 10-16.  The retreat equips attendees to be regional leaders who can advance the mission of the Kolbe Center in their local areas.  The retreat is open to adults, to teenagers 16 years of age or older with their parents' permission, and to families with children.  Activities will be organized for the children every morning except Sunday throughout the retreat. 
    P.P.S. Through the generosity of friends all over the world we have raised the money that we need to produce the DVD series "Foundations Restored."  However, we now recognize that we will need to raise additional funds to market this tremendous product.  If you have not made a donation to support our DVD project, please prayerfully consider going to the Kolbe home page and making a gift today. If you want your gift to be used only for marketing the DVD series, please send me an email and let me know. 


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #20 on: February 25, 2018, 12:29:39 PM »
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  • Foreword to Fr Robinson's book.

    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf


    It seems Fr Robinson  found inspiration in the conciliar popes, Paul VI. John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Pope Francis and Fr Stanley Jaki.

    Fr Jaki was a Benedictine priest and distinguished Professor of Physics at Seton Hall University, New Jersey since 1975, indoctrinating his students in a heliocentric cosmology and natural evolution of one sort or another. For his work in synthesising Catholic faith with modern scientism Fr Jaki was awarded The Templeton Prize in 1987, ‘for furthering understanding of science and religion’ they say; a prize now valued at £1,000,000 per annum, winnable only by those who assert theistic heliocentrism and theistic evolutionism of course.

    John Paul II said he loved Einstein's relativity but that this did not take from Galileo's heliocentrism. What a contradiction. He also told the flock there are proofs for heliocentrism and that the Fathers and popes who upheld geocentrism were ignorants.

    In 1981, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (b.1927) later elected Pope Benedict XVI (2005-15), attempted a creation catechesis for adults in four Lenten homilies in the cathedral of Munich, and later published in a book called In the Beginning.[1] The reason for this subject matter, he wrote, was that the creation account is noticeably and nearly completely absent from Catholic catechesis, preaching and even theology. What he wanted to do was show that the Genesis account of creation in the first book of Scripture could indeed be interpreted in harmony with modern ‘science,’ a task first taken on by Galileo. By doing so, Joseph Ratzinger hoped to give back to Genesis a credibility that would please Catholics of today. Totally ignoring the absurdity of all evolutionary theories that we have discussed earlier in this tome, the Cardinal, by way of his ‘newspeak,’ with its ambiguous euphemistic language, tries to get us to believe that the ‘poetry’ of Genesis can be understood to agree with the exact same theories that ‘science’ invented, theories that are known to have convinced millions there is no God, no need for a God when trying to understand the universe and all in it.


    [1] Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: In The beginning, CFI Bath Press, UK.

    Pope francis would baptise a MARTIAN if he asked.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #21 on: February 25, 2018, 01:06:16 PM »
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  • If Robinson's book espouses heliocentrism and some sort of evolution,  he is teaching heresy and the Society is lost.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #22 on: February 25, 2018, 01:22:04 PM »
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  • The book didn't mention 'sspx seminary' because the sspx leadership wants to get rid of the 'us' vs 'them' mentality.  Therefore a catholic seminary is a catholic seminary, whether it's sspx, fssp, novus ordo, etc.

    Surely this is another sign that step-by-step, +Fellay is conditioning the faithful for a "deal".  May God have mercy on his soul!

    *sigh* more proof that the SSPX has lost it.

    They did the same thing with some of their recent chapels. They don't want or claim the "Traditional" label anymore.

    Fine, I won't attend their Masses then, since I'm looking for a Traditional Catholic chapel -- with a capital T!
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #23 on: February 25, 2018, 01:43:13 PM »
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  • If Robinson's book espouses heliocentrism and some sort of evolution,  he is teaching heresy and the Society is lost.

    The goodness of the SSPX doesn't hang upon the rectitude of one SSPX priest's doctrine. 
    The SSPX is lost either way.
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    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #24 on: February 25, 2018, 02:52:09 PM »
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  • Matthew, I think you posted this in the wrong place. I'll post it here: 

    Sean Johnson chimes in:

    Friends-

    Fr. Paul Robinson (SSPX) has recently written a book titled "The Realist Guide for Religion and Science," for which some information can be gleaned from this website promoting the book:

    https://therealistguide.com/ 

    On the following link, you can read an unbelievable 2-page Foreword, which seems to partially rehabilitate JPII, BXVI, Francis, and the deceased modernist Fr. Stanley Jaki as "moderate realists."

    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf 

    Never mind that John Paul II espoused phenomenology (i.e., Objective truths exist, but human reason cannot access them, only their various manifestations, or "noumena.");

    Never mind that BXVI was primarily a Hegelian.

    Never mind that Francis (Francis!) is completely a-systemic, and the Foreword quotes him thusly: 

    Quote
    Quote
    "Pope Francis has also affirmed that realities are more important than ideas, and this flows from the doctrine of the Incarnation."

    Let that quote, coming from an SSPX-promoted book, sink in: "Realities are more important than ideas."

    This is the pollution coming from Bishop Fellay's ralliement: A practical accord (i.e., a reality) is more important than doctrine (i.e., ideas).

    SSPX priests are being infected by their Superior General, and Fr. Robinson very obviously wanted to show the Vatican just how open the new SSPX is to conciliarist modernism.

    And the deceased Fr. Stanley Jaki (whose organization has written this Foreword for Fr. Robinson)?  

    A thorough modernist, for whom science was superior to religion, having made many statements which implicitly deny the possibility of true miracles, such as this one regarding the miracle of the sun at Fatima:

    Quote
    Quote
    "According to St. Thomas Aquinas a miracle in the strict sense is 'something done outside the order of the entire created universe.' According to Jaki, the fact that the event occurred and still inspires the faithful to this day is the greater miracle."  http://www.catholicstand.com/fr-stanley-jaki-on-the-fatima-miracle/ 

    And in Jaki's introduction to the English-language translation of Abbe Augustin Barruel's masterpiece "Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism" (which Weishaupt's conspiracy against altar, throne, and society), he makes this bewildering statement: 

    Quote
    Quote
    "The teaching of Thomas Aquinas and of Bellarmine, that the people were the ultimate source on earth of political authority and power, was not something that Barruel would fully appreciate." (p. xiv)

    Some of you in this email are quite well read on St. Thomas Aquinas, and I should be extremely surprised if he ever taught such a thing!

    Nonetheless, these are the people Fr. Robinson wants to promote his book: All of them conciliarist modernists to the man.

    Obviously, the neo-SSPX is losing its mind (and its faith).

    As time marches on, you can expect much more of this.  It is only natural.

    Cardinal Cottier would be quite pleased to see the "progress" Menzingen is making towards conciliarism, as he once counseled regarding Campos: "What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts...we must be patient...gradually, we must expect additional steps, like concelebration...reconciliation carries within itself its own internal dynamism [self-censorship]."

    Indeed it does, and Fr. Robinson's book is one more piece of evidence of that "dynamism."

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #25 on: February 25, 2018, 03:07:20 PM »
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  • The Pope Francis reference seems to me a throwaway as if to tell the reader "Look we respect Pope Francis. We are not bad guys!" Ridiculous... Pope Francis -- let alone his predecessors -- are now firmly in the "realist" tradition? Nonsense! Are we to believe that Pope Francis is rooted in the "realist" (Aristotelian/Thomist) tradition? Didn't Bishop Fellay call him a "practical modernist"? Nevermind, he took that back or said that he was misunderstood. 

    Another point -- if even a man like Fr. Paul Haffner (the man who wrote the foreword to Fr. Robinson's book) who has an extensive background and credentials from Rome then gives such glowing praise of the a work of a SSPX priest then does that not say a lot? It will show to the whole world that the SSPX can be intellectual and that they are not reactionaries who don't understand contemporary problems. Granted I have not read Fr. Robinson's book but I think it says a lot as to who is starting to approve of the SSPX's works. 

    Here are Fr. Haffner's credentials: 

    http://www.jeanhaffner.co.uk/index_htm_files/PaulCV.pdf

    As for Pope Francis again, read the following article: 

    https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/12/29/pope-urges-theologians-faithful-anchored-vatican-ii/

    ROME - Affirming the critically important role of a “free and responsible” form of Catholic theology in the life of the church, Pope Francis called on theologians to “remain faithful and anchored” to the vision of Vatican II, as well as “immersed” in the instincts and concerns of ordinary people who’ve never taken “academic courses in theology.”
    The Second Vatican Council (1962-65), Francis said, called the Church “to announce the Gospel in a new way, more consonant with a profoundly different culture and world,” and he added, “The Church must always refer itself to that event.
    “That effort requires from the whole Church, and theologians in particular, to be implemented in a spirit of ‘creative fidelity’,” the pope said.
    “For that reason, I ask you to continue to remain faithful and anchored, in your theological work, to the council and the capacity the Church demonstrated there to allow itself to be rejuvenated by the perennial novelty of the Gospel of Christ,” Francis said.
    The pontiff’s remarks came during a noontime audience with roughly 100 members of the Associazione Teologica Italiana, the “Italian Theology Association,” the main professional society for Catholic theologians in Italy founded after Vatican II and this year celebrating its 50th anniversary.
    Unlike his predecessor Pope emeritus Benedict XVI, who’s an accomplished theologian and took a keen personal interest in doctrinal matters, Francis positions himself more as a pastor, usually referring to theologians as “they” - for instance, speaking to a visiting group of Evangelical pastors in 2016, he said, “Theology is a very complicated subject, and we should let the theologians argue it out. In the meantime, we should love each other and learn to value people who are different than ourselves.”
    Famously, during a visit to the Anglican Church of All Saints this past February, Francis quoted a quip from Patriarch Athenagoras of Constantinople to Pope Paul VI after their historic 1964 meeting: “We’ll bring about unity between us, and we’ll put all the theologians on an island so they can think about it!” (Francis even added he’d confirmed with Athenagoras’s successor, Patriarch Bartholomew I, that the line wasn’t just an urban legend.)
    Given that background, Francis’s remarks to theological groups typically are seen as a fairly rare opportunity to better understand his doctrinal vision.
    To begin with, Francis on Friday urged theologians to see their work not as an individual quest for insight, but as being rooted in a broader community.
    “What theologians do can’t help but be a personal quest,” he said, “but one immersed in the widest theological community possible,” insisting that it’s not just an “accessory” to the ministry of theologians.
    In particular, Francis asked theologians to pay careful attention to the insights of ordinary believers, what experts sometimes call “popular religiosity.”
    “It’s in this living faith of the holy People of God that every theologian should feel immersed, and by which he or she should also feel sustained, transported and embraced,” the pope said.
    The pope also called theologians to what he termed a “duty of the essential,” meaning finding ways to transmit the heart of the Christian faith in a culture today in which “distorted visions of the heart itself of the Gospel may insinuate themselves.”
    Moving to specific challenges, Francis mentioned several areas in which he believe there’s need today for creative theological thought:
    • The “ecological crisis”
    • “Developments in neurosciences or techniques that can modify the human person”
    • “Ever-greater social inequalities”
    • “Migrations of entire peoples”
    • “Theoretical relativism, but also its practical version”
    Francis applauded the Italian association for being made up of experts who don’t just “talk among themselves,” but who see themselves “at the service of the different churches and the Church.”
    Pope Francis was greeted by the current president of the Associazione Teologica Italiana, Father Roberto Repole, who took the reins in 2011 from legendary Italian theologian Monsignor Piero Coda, who’s also a stalwart of the Focolare movement.
    Headquartered at the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome, the Associazione Teologica Italiana brings together some 300 professors and writers in Catholic theology from every region in Italy.
    In one sign of the times in Catholic theology, the current vice president of the association is Serena Noceti of the Theological Faculty of Central Italy in Florence, who also does training for the Archdiocese of Florence. It’s the first time a woman has held a position of leadership in Italy’s main theological guild.
    The pope’s next public activity during the holiday season will come on Sunday, when he delivers his last Angelus address of the year at noon and then, in the evening, presides over the traditional vespers service in thanksgiving for the year coming to a close. On New Year’s Day, Francis will celebrate a Mass honoring Mary as the Mother of God, followed by another Angelus.
    Traditionally, the Vatican’s holiday season is said to wrap up on Jan. 6 with the feast of the Epiphany, when Francis will once again lead a Mass in the morning followed by an Angelus. Informally, however, it’s usually considered to extend through the pope’s annual speech to the diplomatic corps accredited to the Vatican, in which the pontiff lays out his foreign policy priorities for the year to come.
    This year, that speech to diplomats will be held on Monday, Jan. 8.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #26 on: February 25, 2018, 04:05:32 PM »
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  • From the mailbag --

    1.) The cover is really, really bizarre. Looks like it would be from some kind of Protestant "Stories from the Other Side" book.

    2.) The reviews (quotes) on the back might be even more nebulous and bizarre.

    Quote
    With this volume, the student will be able to safely navigate through the busy halls of philosophy.
    FR JOSEPH AZIZE, PH.D.,
    Honorary Associate, Dept of Studies in Religion, University of Sydney; Adjunct Associate Professor, University of Notre Dame, Australia.

    The Realist Guide to Religion and Science is an historical and radically interdisciplinary work that provides clear answers to the intellectual confusion that besieges the modern world.
    DENNIS BONNETTE Ph.D., Professor of Philosophy (Retired), Niagara University.

    Fr Robinson knows that talking about the absoluteness of truth is not very pleasant to a modern scholar … but it is—de facto—a very scholarly thing to do. In my opinion, the author of the Realist Guide deserves praises for this attempt.
    JAKUB TAYLOR, Ph.D. (Seoul National University), Professor Sungkyunkwan University, South Korea.

    3.) It seems really odd that none of his own confreres would be included in the review quotes?

    4.) The book gets published via an obscure Novus Ordo publishing company owned by a priest in the UK? Why wouldn't it be published via Angelus Press?

    5.) Interesting note on the SSPX site...

    Quote
    In the foreword, Fr Haffner makes reference to the support of the Conciliar Popes for realism. In doing so, he assigns to Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II the titles of ‘Blessed’ and ‘Saint’ respectively. As Fr Robinson was not provided an opportunity to read the foreword before the publication of his book, he was not able to express his adherence to the position of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX) on the doubtful nature of the canonizations...Thus, the appearance of ‘Blessed’ and ‘Saint’ beside Paul VI and John Paul II in the foreword of The Realist Guide should in no way be construed as an acceptance by Fr Robinson of the modern canonizations or a deviation from his publicly expressed opinions on that subject or the position of the SSPX. 

    Maybe it could be said that having one's book published by a Novus Ordo published wasn't, dare we say, prudent?
    Or this could be just another trick of the Society's move toward conciliarism.
    Have the foreword printed with references that are "not in line with SSPX position," then publish an obscure note about that on SSPX site which will last, at most, 2 days before it gets lost...

    6.) Fr. Haffner, owner of Gracewing Publishing, has published this book ... which sounds highly questionable. Also, see his about section for his nice photo op with Papa Bergoglio admiring his work!


    Anyway, suffice it to say I won't be reading it.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #27 on: February 25, 2018, 05:46:21 PM »
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  • Matthew, I think you posted this in the wrong place. I'll post it here:

    Sean Johnson chimes in:

    Friends-

    Fr. Paul Robinson (SSPX) has recently written a book titled "The Realist Guide for Religion and Science," for which some information can be gleaned from this website promoting the book:

    https://therealistguide.com/

    On the following link, you can read an unbelievable 2-page Foreword, which seems to partially rehabilitate JPII, BXVI, Francis, and the deceased modernist Fr. Stanley Jaki as "moderate realists."

    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf

    Never mind that John Paul II espoused phenomenology (i.e., Objective truths exist, but human reason cannot access them, only their various manifestations, or "noumena.");

    Never mind that BXVI was primarily a Hegelian.

    Never mind that Francis (Francis!) is completely a-systemic, and the Foreword quotes him thusly:

    Quote
    Let that quote, coming from an SSPX-promoted book, sink in: "Realities are more important than ideas."

    This is the pollution coming from Bishop Fellay's ralliement: A practical accord (i.e., a reality) is more important than doctrine (i.e., ideas).

    SSPX priests are being infected by their Superior General, and Fr. Robinson very obviously wanted to show the Vatican just how open the new SSPX is to conciliarist modernism.

    And the deceased Fr. Stanley Jaki (whose organization has written this Foreword for Fr. Robinson)?  

    A thorough modernist, for whom science was superior to religion, having made many statements which implicitly deny the possibility of true miracles, such as this one regarding the miracle of the sun at Fatima:

    Quote
    And in Jaki's introduction to the English-language translation of Abbe Augustin Barruel's masterpiece "Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism" (which Weishaupt's conspiracy against altar, throne, and society), he makes this bewildering statement:

    Quote
    Some of you in this email are quite well read on St. Thomas Aquinas, and I should be extremely surprised if he ever taught such a thing!

    Nonetheless, these are the people Fr. Robinson wants to promote his book: All of them conciliarist modernists to the man.

    Obviously, the neo-SSPX is losing its mind (and its faith).

    As time marches on, you can expect much more of this.  It is only natural.

    Cardinal Cottier would be quite pleased to see the "progress" Menzingen is making towards conciliarism, as he once counseled regarding Campos: "What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts...we must be patient...gradually, we must expect additional steps, like concelebration...reconciliation carries within itself its own internal dynamism [self-censorship]."

    Indeed it does, and Fr. Robinson's book is one more piece of evidence of that "dynamism."

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson

    Seeing as it is Sunday...

    This email was circulated in a private distribution, and it was not my intention that it be posted on CI (or anywhere else), but as I neglected to make that request in the email itself, no harm done:

    "Scripsi scripsit," as they say.

    However, now that it HAS been posted, I would like to correct and explain my comment regarding Fr. Stanley Jaki:

    1) I claim that he is a modernist.  This is primarily based on his exegesis, which seems to embrace a mitigated form of the "historico-critical" method of exegesis (i.e., Which seeks to "re-examine" patristic exegesis under the pretext of modern "science").

    2) Google Fr. Raymond Brown (i.e., the apostate apostle of the historico-critical method of exegesis in the Catholic Church);

    3) The tendency of HC exegetes is to explain Biblical miracles according to merely scientific causes; to find novel explanations to the Genesis creation account; to question the authorship of the Pentateuch (i.e., the first 5 books of the Old Testament) by Moses; to re-explain the New Testament miracles in a sense other than the literal sense;

    4) It is generally accepted that Fr. Brown was such an exegete (one of the more tame, but an adherent nonetheless).  For example, one of his admirers writes of him: "A careful reading of Jaki's overall work bears out his belief in the original creation of the universe by the God of Christendom. At the same time Jaki cannot be called a creationist in full agreement with strict adherents to the Bible, especially the Genesis record, because he accepts the inerrancy of this record only with qualifications of a "higher critical" nature."  http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v09n2p17.htm

    5) Also, he is guilty of calling into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, as he says in his own words: "Does this mean that Moses, or whoever wrote Genesis 1,..." http://www.hprweb.com/1993/08/genesis-1-a-cosmogenesis/

    6) St. Pius X condemned this in his scotching of the modernists in Pascendi (See #34, which explicitly mentions questioning the authorship of the Pentateuch).

    6)  Clearly, therefore, Fr. Jaki entertained the modernist "J,E,P,D" theory of exegesis (which claims that the books of the Pentateuch were compiled by various subsequent authors, based on alleged internal contextual and docuмentary evidence).

    6) Such was the mindset of Fr. Jaki, and it would be a stretch to say that his scientific career had no influence on his faith: His mission was to harmonize science and faith (but it seems to me that he wanted to conform the latter to the former, and not the other way around).

    7) The natural temptation, therefore, would be to take a critical (in the scholarly sense, meaning to examine them rationally, skeptical of their supra-scientific nature) view towards miracles.  Now many citations can show Fr. Jaki as accepting and defending the reality of miracles.  

    However, do they preserve their same nature (i.e., no scientific explanation, as St. Thomas Aquinas in my email defines the term), or are miracles reduced to the level of scientificly explainable phenomena, such as seems to be implied in Fr. Jaki's explanation of the Fatima miracle (i.e., a meteorological phenomena, where the REAL miracle was that the event should be so significant all these years later).

    Just wanted to clarify that comment.

    But for one to embrace even a mitigated form of historical-critical exegesis, and call into question the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch is plainly modernist (condemned, and uncatholic).

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #28 on: February 25, 2018, 05:55:02 PM »
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  • Editing time ran out (grrrr): #4 should read:

    4) It is generally accepted that Fr. Jaki was such an exegete...
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Fr Robinson's new book "The Realist Guide to Religion and Science"
    « Reply #29 on: February 25, 2018, 06:07:51 PM »
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  • Foreword to Fr Robinson's book.

    https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/downloads/1c5r4kp28_40515.pdf


    It seems Fr Robinson  found inspiration in the conciliar popes, Paul VI. John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Pope Francis and Fr Stanley Jaki.

    Fr Jaki was a Benedictine priest and distinguished Professor of Physics at Seton Hall University, New Jersey since 1975, indoctrinating his students in a heliocentric cosmology and natural evolution of one sort or another. For his work in synthesising Catholic faith with modern scientism Fr Jaki was awarded The Templeton Prize in 1987, ‘for furthering understanding of science and religion’ they say; a prize now valued at £1,000,000 per annum, winnable only by those who assert theistic heliocentrism and theistic evolutionism of course.

    John Paul II said he loved Einstein's relativity but that this did not take from Galileo's heliocentrism. What a contradiction. He also told the flock there are proofs for heliocentrism and that the Fathers and popes who upheld geocentrism were ignorants.

    In 1981, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (b.1927) later elected Pope Benedict XVI (2005-15), attempted a creation catechesis for adults in four Lenten homilies in the cathedral of Munich, and later published in a book called In the Beginning.[1] The reason for this subject matter, he wrote, was that the creation account is noticeably and nearly completely absent from Catholic catechesis, preaching and even theology. What he wanted to do was show that the Genesis account of creation in the first book of Scripture could indeed be interpreted in harmony with modern ‘science,’ a task first taken on by Galileo. By doing so, Joseph Ratzinger hoped to give back to Genesis a credibility that would please Catholics of today. Totally ignoring the absurdity of all evolutionary theories that we have discussed earlier in this tome, the Cardinal, by way of his ‘newspeak,’ with its ambiguous euphemistic language, tries to get us to believe that the ‘poetry’ of Genesis can be understood to agree with the exact same theories that ‘science’ invented, theories that are known to have convinced millions there is no God, no need for a God when trying to understand the universe and all in it.


    [1] Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: In The beginning, CFI Bath Press, UK.

    Pope francis would baptise a MARTIAN if he asked.

    You hit the nail on the head Cassini.

    Why would a traditional Catholic priest include such modernist theological references in the Foreword of his book ?

    It must mean Father's book was edited by the Menzingen brotherhood and is being used as party-line propaganda
    to endorse "Team Francis".

    Two thoughts:

    1. Pray that as many neo-SSPXers (priests & faithful) will receive the necessary graces to abandon this neo-trad cult.

    2. Pray for Father Robinson, who must be suffering from some form of mind control?
        He has debased all of his educational credentials by previously giving us fake theology and now, fake science.








    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi