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Author Topic: Fr Robinson's (SSPX) Q&A ON HIS REALISTIC GUIDE TO RELIGION AND SCIENCE  (Read 2523 times)

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The very idea that an SSPX priest is trying to portray a scientific THEORY as the Catholic ex nihilo creative act, a divine act of faith, is to me lowering this dogma to the level of scientism, putting it on the same level of a theory that currently represents an atheist beginning for an evolved universe. I accuse this synthesis as accommodating many of the Pythagorean heresies condemned for centuries by the Early Church Fathers, heresies that reappeared in the 16th and 17th centuries under Bruno, Kepler and Galileo and were once again condemned. For example, a Big Bang beginning precedes a solar-system that includes a moving earth around a stationary sun, condemned in 1616 as formally heretical. This moving earth the Pythagoreans said was caused by a soul, a previously condemned heresy that led to Pantheism, a heresy held today by Big Bang pantheists and atheists.
Another, if one evolved solar-system that includes an Earth full of life can have happened as a Big Bang creation implies, then other such 'worlds' with Earth-like planets cannot be ruled out. This heresy was also condemned by the early Fathers. In the year 748AD Pope Zacharais condemned the heresy that other worlds exist and that men and women lived on them. This censure was repeated by Pope Pius II in 1459. Big Bangism resurrects this condemned heresy, one now believed by modern science, the Jesuits in charge of the Vatican Observatory, and God knows how many others:
 
[1] ‘In 2009 the Vatican hosted a conference bringing scientists, astronomers and religious leaders together to discuss the implications for religion and human consciousness if the discovery of extraterrestrial life is found. One of the statements made was the fact that extraterrestrials would be part of God’s creation and therefore regarded as our “extraterrestrial brothers.”’ In Sept. 2014, The Christian Post reported that the Jesuit Brother Guy Consolmagno, the new president of the Vatican Observatory Foundation, proposed the eventual discovery of alien life forms after Pope Francis used the analogy that even Martians, should they visit Earth, would be welcome to be baptised. Baptism of course is a sacrament that erases Original Sin found exclusively in the descendants of Adam and Eve. Introducing this sacrament into science-fiction is outrageous.
 
 Oh yes, I know the attitude as depicted in Vatican II's Gaudium et Spes, that the early Fathers were scientifically IGNORANT and that all these condemnations were totally over the top and that CATHOLICISM CAN NOW IGNORE THEM.

To resurrect even one heresy into the creative act of God by association is enough, but there are other Q&A demoting the Catholic faith to a minimum that need to be aired, which we will do.


Agreed.

Not surprised at SSPX resurrecting this heresy since they teach heliocentrism in their schools.

The Soul-Lure System:

https://imgur.com/gjlujOb



Fr Robinson’s Q&A

So, if you wanted to argue a proposition like "The human race started no later than 10,000 years ago" as being part of the Catholic faith, you would try to build a case from the following authorities:   

  • Sacred Scripture
  • The writings of the Fathers
  • Docuмents of the Magisterium

In addition, you would make an argument of reason, but, in the theological argument, the argument from reason alone would not hold as much weight as the arguments of authority.

According to the strength of the argument of authority, theologians give a grade of certainty to the conclusion being drawn. That grade can vary from a mere theological opinion (lowest) to a dogma of divine and Catholic faith (highest). In the case of the proposition mentioned above, I believe it would fall into the category of a theological opinion.
…………………………………………………………………………

SACRED SCRIPTURE:

Katarina Emmerick (1774-1823) for example, the Augustinian nun, wrote

'I saw these false computations of the pagan priests at the same time as I beheld Jesus Christ teaching on the Sabbath at Aruma. Jesus, speaking before the Pharisees of the Call of Abraham and his sojourn in Egypt, exposed the errors of the Egyptian calendar. He told them that the world had now existed 4028 years. When I heard Jesus say this, He was Himself thirty-one years old.’ ---

Katarina’s age for Jesus Christ is the exactly the same as found in the Scriptures: Adam 5 days, Noah and the flood 1056 years (2941 BC), Abraham 1950 after creation (AC), Exodus 2540AC, birth of Jesus 3997AC, death of Jesus 4030AC at 33 years, fall of Jerusalem 4070AC, world on 2000 AD was 5997 years old, 2018 years after Christ was the year 6,014AC and so on.

These are the dates that Moses included in his Genesis. Are we to think he took them out of his head, or was he writing under the inspiration and revelation of the Holy Ghost? Every word of the Bible is TRUE. How then can dates and facts be dismissed as FALSE by 'science theories?

(1) An investigation into Chinese palaeography called God’s Promise to the Chinese by 3 authors (1997) . In a summary of this book, the reviewer states: 

‘The three joint-authors have clearly demonstrated, to this reviewer’s satisfaction at least, that the inventor of the original Chinese characters, which were inscribed on tortoise shells and bones, knew and believed in an identical account of creation and Earth’s beginnings to that found in Moses’ Book of Genesis….

The Chinese have always revered their writing system. Calligraphy ranks supreme in their artistic scale of values… Just 142 of the earliest hieroglyphic pictograms contain, in a highly condensed (and therefore mentally portable and ineradicable form) key components of the Book of Genesis. Since the truth or otherwise of the Flood has profound implications for the study of geology, in the Book of Docuмents (Sha Ching), written 3,000 years ago, we read: “The flood waters were everywhere, destroying everything as they rose above the hills and swelled up to Heaven.” ’[2]

The authors go on to show how the earliest Chinese were monotheists who worshiped ShangDi or the ‘God Above.’ For more than 4,000 years they sacrificed to Him in the imperial city of Beijing in what was called the ‘Border Sacrifice.’ Confucius (551-479BC) thought this sacrifice so important that he compared an understanding of it to the efficient ruling of the Chinese empire. The Border Sacrifice ended with the Manchu Ch’ing dynasty in 1911.   ]

(2) In his book After the Flood,[3] a 25-year study into Middle Eastern/European palaeography, Bill Cooper traces the early post-Deluge history of the Middle East and Europe. His task was to see if the ‘Table of Nations’ (Genesis Chapter 10 and 11) could be verified in the history of nations prior to Christianity. If he could find a lineage from the Japhetic line in these histories, it would confirm the Bible also recorded true history. Cooper found ample evidence in eastern and western archives to confirm Middle East and European lines are both descended from the Japhetic tree. In Britain, Wales and Ireland he found the records of the early settlers went back 2,000 years, with the same genealogy to European differing only in language. What amazed Cooper was that the records of this history were so easy to find and so evident that he concluded its absence from textbooks, schools and universities had to be a deliberate conspiracy by modernists to uphold their version of things. 

Likewise, no bones, buildings, artefacts, cloths etc., should be found older than the dates given in Genesis if the Bible is to be authentic. The usual method of dating such short-life (10,000 years maximum) things is Carbon-14 dating.[4] This dating method however, relies on many assumptions to be accurate[5] and sometimes produces some erroneous dating.[6] Even so, try as they did with it, no trace of any civilisation could be dated with certainty as being more than 5,000 years old. Dr Walter Libby, who won a Nobel Prize for his discovery of the Carbon-14 dating method, and who thought his discovery would reveal ‘prehistoric’ times, never found any human artefact older than 5,000 years.

‘“You read statements in books that such or such a society or archaeological site is 20,000 years old,” he commented, “but we learn rather abruptly that these numbers, these ancient ages, are not known accurately; in fact, it is about the first dynasty of Egypt that the first historical date of any real certainty has been established.”’ [7]

We could go on, but that should be enough to show that, whatever about the propaganda to the contrary, asserting the opposite, the Bible cannot be falsified in its natural revelations by investigations using true science.


[2] Tim Williams: Christian Order, November 2001, pp.629-631.
[3] Bill Cooper: After the Flood, New Wine Press, 22 Arun Business Park, Bognor Regis, West Sussex, PO22 9SX, England, 1995.
[4] To obtain ‘millions-of-years’ dating, different radioactive materials are used.
[5] Radio-carbon dating relies on two major assumptions: a 32,000-year cycle that may never have been if we do live in a 6,000+-year world: and no other carbon entered the system in its cycle.
[6] In one case for example, a living turtle was dated at 1000+ years old.
[7] A. J. White, Radio-Carbon Dating, Cardiff, Wales, 1955, p.10.

Fr Robinson’s Q&A
  • The writings of the Fathers

Of interest is the website:


 Dr Millam writes:

'Mook also takes aim at Dr. Hugh Ross’ claims on this subject. Ross’ earliest statements claim that Irenaeus, Origen, Basil, Augustine, and Thomas Aquinas taught that the creation days were long periods of time, which Mook rejects as incorrect. In later books, Ross has backed away from many of those claims but still argues that Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and several others taught that the days of creation were 1,000 years each. Mook concludes that while Ross become more nuanced in his claims, he remains substantially wrong.

Unfortunately, few old earth creationists have written about the church fathers and what little they have written is often poor quality (with Stanley Jaki as a notable exception). This scarcity of solid resources is part of what motivated me to research this issue for myself.’

Based on my own research, no early church father taught any form of a day-age view or an earth older than 10,000 years. In fact, the first people that I can clearly identify as teaching the old-earth view are Isaac Newton and Thomas Burnet in the late seventeenth century. This seems like a fatal blow to old-earth creationism and a strong vindication of Mook’s position but closer examination shows otherwise.'

Personally I have no problem with Augustine's all created together and spread over six days, and the Fatghers who held it as completed in six days as described in Mary of Agreda'a The Mystical City of God’ or ‘The Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God.’
I also agree with Dr John Millam's research that cannot find any FATHER interprerting Genesis as creation over 13.5 Billion years as Fr Robinson tries to get his readers to accept.

Fr Robinson’s Q&A

(3) Docuмents of the Magisterium

'As to the Roman Church, about 1580 there was published by authority of Pope Gregory XIII the Roman Martyrology, and this, both as originally published  and as revised in 1640 under Pope Urban VIII, declared that the creation of man took place 5199 years before Christ.’ - A. White: A History.


Here is a modern website for example:

http://www.unitypublishing.com/prophecy/martyrology.htm

 'For two thousand years the Catholic Church has held a traditional belief about the precise age of the world. Ancient Catholic scholars used the best histories and calendars available to meticulously calculate the precise age of the world. The traditional Julian and Gregorian calendars do correspond in many ways to the traditional Jєωιѕн lunar calendar. In 1582 A.D., the Church altered the method of adjusting the calendar, so that it more accurately predicted the earth's actual cycle of rotation around the sun. (bull, the Church held it was the sun that rotated around the Earth in those days)
 The Christian time-line of the age of the world changed only slightly in 1582, when astronomers determined the way to improve the calendar. At the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., the Church fixed the Solemnity of the Resurrection to correspond with the Vernal Equinox. Historically, the Resurrection of Christ actually did occur almost simultaneously at the time of the Vernal Equinox. Though the Julian calendar was very accurate, it became annoying to the Catholic Church because it caused the Solemnity of the Resurrection to keep moving further and further into the summer. The changes enforced by the Pope Gregory XIII in 1582, enabled the Church to consistently fix the precise day of the vernal, and autumnal equinox, (the two times during the year when the sun crosses the celestial equator, and when the length of day and night are equal). The older Julian calendar was unable to fix the days of Equinox. This problem was also annoying to scientists and agriculturists, who intended for men to know exactly when to plan to plant crops at optimal times.

The most recent accounting of the age of the world according to Catholic tradition is over 400 old at this point, though it's present form is still almost exactly what it was 1000 years ago. As it is presented below, it reflects the latest change to the Calendar made by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 AD.  
 This reading has been incorporated into the Liturgy of the Christmas Mass for many, many centuries. It is customary for this to be publicly read from the pulpit, before the beginning of midnight mass on the Solemnity of Christmas. The reading can be found in any complete Roman Missal, (also called: The Sacramentary), under the section of readings for Christmas.'
 
 The Roman martyrology however has now to be brought under Big Bangism's 13.5 billion years. This site does that by saying it took 13.5 billion years to get the earth ready for man when God created Adam.



Liturgical Reading of Midnight Mass
Solemnity of the Nativity
From the Roman Martyrology
In the twenty-fourth day of the month of December;
In the year five-thousand one-hundred and ninety-nine from the creation of the world, when in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;
In the year two-thousand nine-hundred and fifty-seven from the flood;
In the year two-thousand and fifty-one from the birth of Abraham;
In the year one-thousand five-hundred and ten from the going forth of the people of Israel out of Egypt under Moses;
In the year one-thousand and thirty-two from the anointing of David as king;
In the sixty-fifth week according to the prophecy of Daniel;
In the one-hundred and ninety-fourth Olympiad;
In the year seven-hundred and fifty-two from the foundation of the city of Rome;
In the forty-second year of the reign of the Emperor Octavian Augustus;
In the sixth age of the world, while the whole earth was at peace— JESUS CHRIST eternal God and the Son of the eternal Father, willing to consecrate the world by His gracious coming, having been conceived of the Holy Ghost, and the nine months of His conception being now accomplished, (all kneel) was born in Bethlehem of Judah of the Virgin Mary, made man. The birthday of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the flesh.

I have no idea if this martyrology is said at Fr Robinson's christmas Mass or if he has his corrected.

Oh, and by the way, did you know the world has decided to get Christ out of the age of the world. I have seen books now presenting BCE for BC and CE for AD when presenting dates.