I thank the person who linked to this video, regarding Fr. Kramer's role with Fr. Chazal at the seminary in the Philippines.  However, the video actually highlights the necessity of obeying Our Lady of Fatima regarding the consecration of Russia, and Fr. Paul Kramer's very special calling in association with this demand from Heaven.

The beginning of the video also points to the irony of +Fellay being picked for the funeral Mass of Fr. Gruner in the Spring of 2015, seeing that the rejection of Fr. Gruner by the SSPX brought that man to tears in the presence of Fr. Chazal and Fr. Pfeiffer.

Fr. Chazal makes a couple of mistakes in this video. First, he states that Fr. Gruner came to Tradition out of the Novus Ordo because of Fatima. All you have to do is read (free online) the chapters in "Fatima Priest" regarding how Fr. Gruner struggled to become ordained in the post Vatican II turmoil -- In his early 20's, he objected so strongly to the new theology and its apologists that he was kicked out of seminary before graduation in Canada, and then spent a few years studying in Rome, and travelled all across Europe, meeting with different clergy and religious orders, even starting up an international seminary study center with other frustrated students before it was shut down by the Vatican.  Finally, he was ordained according to Canon Law, and granted a worldwide apostolate -- which Vatican authorities have denied without proper docuмentation from the very beginning, successfully intimidating some of Fr. Gruner's erstwhile supporters, in a series of 'dirty tricks' you have to read about in order to believe.

By the way, Fr. Gruner has never at any time, never once, administered the Holy Eucharist in the hand.

Secondly, Fr. Chazal states Fr. Gruner was "excommunicated".  Where in the world he gets this piece of disinfo I have no idea.  That never happened. In fact, it makes me very angry to hear such nonsense.  Again, I refer you to the docuмentation abundantly provided by Fr. Gruner in reply to various attacks and slanders.

Anyway, here is the link to the video regarding Fr. Kramer and Fatima:



I also recommend the video, easy to find with a YouTube search:

"Fatima Martyr: Father Gruner Died For Fatima"

It's been two months since the end of October 2015, and nothing bad has happened to the world due to Russia not being consecrated in early 2015. Fr. Kramer, leading up to October '15, kept harping about bad things to happen any day after October as a punishment, if Russia isn't consecrated. Well, nothing has happened out of the ordinary in terms of global significance, but I guess "any day" can mean 15 years from now, too, right?  :rolleyes:

However, the video actually highlights the necessity of obeying Our Lady of Fatima regarding the consecration of Russia

 

Too late.

Much, much, much too late. When are you people going to realize it and stop rehashing and recycling the same old twisted Fatima cultism.

The Church disobeyed the Blessed Mother of God. The Church has been eclipsed as punishment. The world has fallen deeper into sin and grotesque evils, which are sanctioned by governments worldwide. Chastisement is coming, regardless if apostate Rome "consecrates" Russia tomorrow or not...

Best not to pay much heed to Fr. Kramer, Fr. Amorth, et al, who are associated with the Newchurch and the Fatima cult. Much of the Fatima warnings have already been realized, and a lot of the punishments have already come to fruition. The key is for western Catholics to shed themselves of their false "moral high ground" and Americanism, and take a good look at real history (not so much the "history" taught to you by schools and TV).

However, the final punishment and purging has not yet come, but it's coming... yet, I would not rely on Fr. Kramer to tell you when it does come, for he has already lost credibility in that department.

Of greater concern to traditional Catholics than the fact that Liénart was a radical socialist...

 

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=85

Just a great reply from the past regarding the same nonsense discussed here http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=33483&min=0&num=5

This subject rears its ugly head every once in a while.

Father Hector Bolduc (RIP), and Mr. Henry Beemster (RIP), years ago, offered a reward to these nincompoops that carried on this argument. They offered a large reward to anyone who could prove, first, that Leinart was a Freemason, ($25,000 at the time) and then another sum ($25,000 at the time) to prove why it mattered.

No one took them up on this.

Now, I'm going to show you something.



It is said that Archbishop Lefevbre asked for a blessing from Padre Pio, to which Padre Pio replied, "Me, bless an archbishop, no, no, it is you who should be blessing me!"

Surely, the one who charged Father Luigi Villa with exposing ecclesiastical Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, who EXPOSED THAT Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ HAD "MADE IT INTO THE SHOES OF THE POPE!" (direct quote, by the way, was speaking of Paul the Sick  :barf: ) WOULD HAVE WARNED ARCHBISHOP LEFEVBRE THAT HE WAS A PRETENDER PRIEST AND BISHOP!

So, you see, this absolute MALARKEY about Archbishop Lefevbre being invalidly consecrated, and not a priest, et cetera, should be thrown in the dustbin FOREVER.

De Pauw has been banned for libel against +Lefebvre as well as dogmatic "home aloneism" which is NOT permitted on CathInfo.

My guess is that he's angry about the SSPX "injustice" against Fr. Kramer in not allowing him to say the funeral Mass for Fr. Gruner, and making Fr. Kramer cry as a result. So now he's attacking the SSPX at its root (the episcopacy of +Lefebvre)

Sorry, emotions don't determine the truth.


Here is a good quote from the above link. I bet this situation would give a lot of Trads -- especially home aloners -- the willies. They would be tempted to leave the Catholic Church over this!

The Concordat with Napoleon required the exiled FAITHFUL bishops to resign their office, while the bishops consecrated by Talleyrand (read about him below) got to keep their offices -- no conditional ordination necessary!

THAT is the mind of the Church on this matter. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!



Talleyrand publicly said sacrilegious Masses. After most of the traditional and loyal bishops fled France, it fell his lot to consecrate (together with the infamous apostate, Bishop Gobel) all the "Constitutional Bishops" that replaced them. After this act, he took off his ecclesiastical attire and never wore it again. His own priests, the Cathedral Chapter of Autun, described him as deserving "infamy in this world and damnation in the next."

      One must not imagine that Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ was an unknown entity in those days. Popes Clement XII (1730-1740), Benedict XIV (1740-1758) and Clemenr XIII (1758-1769) had already clearly condemned it.

Talleyrand was excommunicated by a pontifical brief in April, 1791. This excommunication was later lifted, on condition that he lived a life of celibacy. He promptly married, then exiled his wife to England and formed a series of "alliances" from which several illegitimate offspring resulted. He was a bad priest, an apostate bishop, a Freemason, a Christian barred from communion and an individual who for forty-nine years could not receive the sacraments of the Church.

      Now, the point of all this is that most of the bishops of France derived their Apostolic Succession through Talleyrand and his two associates (also supporters of the Revolution). Not only were all Talleyrand's episcopal consecrations recognized, but when the Concordat between Napoleon and Pope Pius VII was signed, the exiled bishops who had remained loyal to Pope Pius VI were asked to resign.

Rome allowed the bishops of the Constitutional Church, all of whom derived their orders from the Mason Talleyrand, to remain in their positions, as diocesan ordinaries. The fact that Talleyrand was a Mason and a revolutionary made no difference.

* * * * *

To sum up what we have said:

      (1) There is no credible evidence which shows that Cardinal Lienart was a Freemason.

      (2) If Cardinal Lienart had been a Freemason, it would not have invalidated the sacraments he conferred.

      (3) The case of Talleyrand demonstrates in the practical order that the Church does not regard ordinations performed by Freemasons as invalid.

(And the article leaves out the fact that there were CO-CONSECRATOR(S) at +Lefebvre's consecration, rendering the status of Cardinal Lienart a moot point.)

Quote from: ascent

Quote

However, the video actually highlights the necessity of obeying Our Lady of Fatima regarding the consecration of Russia

 

Too late.

Much, much, much too late. When are you people going to realize it and stop rehashing and recycling the same old twisted Fatima cultism.

The Church disobeyed the Blessed Mother of God. The Church has been eclipsed as punishment. The world has fallen deeper into sin and grotesque evils, which are sanctioned by governments worldwide. Chastisement is coming, regardless if apostate Rome "consecrates" Russia tomorrow or not...

Best not to pay much heed to Fr. Kramer, Fr. Amorth, et al, who are associated with the Newchurch and the Fatima cult. Much of the Fatima warnings have already been realized, and a lot of the punishments have already come to fruition. The key is for western Catholics to shed themselves of their false "moral high ground" and Americanism, and take a good look at real history (not so much the "history" taught to you by schools and TV).

However, the final punishment and purging has not yet come, but it's coming... yet, I would not rely on Fr. Kramer to tell you when it does come, for he has already lost credibility in that department.

Our Lord told Sister Lucia that it will never be too late:

"Make it known to My ministers, given that they follow the example of the King of France in delaying the execution of My requests, they will follow him into misfortune. It is never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary."

The consecration is promised and it will happen eventually - whether before or after the chastisement. Unfortunately, everything points to the latter option - it seems unlikely that Conciliarists will consecrate Russia, it will probably take divine punishment for the world to come to its senses.

It's too late in the sense that a great chastisement will no longer be averted, even if there is a consecration. Moreover, the world has already fallen into an abyss of evil organized by governments and false religions, and the true Catholic Church has been eclipsed. So, it's too late. Yes, it's never too late to have recourse to Christ and Blessed Mary, but the Church's habitual disobedience has required punishment, and further punishment is coming for her and the world, even if Russia is to be consecrated today.  

And what merit is there in Newchurch consecrating Russia, anyway? Newchurch is not the Catholic Church. It only has material validity, but so does the Old "Catholic" Church, but it's far from being really Catholic, too.

Your response actually supports what I'm saying, but you don't realize it.

Quote from: Arvinger

Quote from: ascent

Quote

However, the video actually highlights the necessity of obeying Our Lady of Fatima regarding the consecration of Russia

 

Too late.

Much, much, much too late. When are you people going to realize it and stop rehashing and recycling the same old twisted Fatima cultism.

The Church disobeyed the Blessed Mother of God. The Church has been eclipsed as punishment. The world has fallen deeper into sin and grotesque evils, which are sanctioned by governments worldwide. Chastisement is coming, regardless if apostate Rome "consecrates" Russia tomorrow or not...

Best not to pay much heed to Fr. Kramer, Fr. Amorth, et al, who are associated with the Newchurch and the Fatima cult. Much of the Fatima warnings have already been realized, and a lot of the punishments have already come to fruition. The key is for western Catholics to shed themselves of their false "moral high ground" and Americanism, and take a good look at real history (not so much the "history" taught to you by schools and TV).

However, the final punishment and purging has not yet come, but it's coming... yet, I would not rely on Fr. Kramer to tell you when it does come, for he has already lost credibility in that department.

Our Lord told Sister Lucia that it will never be too late:

"Make it known to My ministers, given that they follow the example of the King of France in delaying the execution of My requests, they will follow him into misfortune. It is never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary."

The consecration is promised and it will happen eventually - whether before or after the chastisement. Unfortunately, everything points to the latter option - it seems unlikely that Conciliarists will consecrate Russia, it will probably take divine punishment for the world to come to its senses.

It's too late in the sense that a great chastisement will no longer be averted, even if there is a consecration. Moreover, the world has already fallen into an abyss of evil organized by governments and false religions, and the true Catholic Church has been eclipsed. So, it's too late. Yes, it's never too late to have recourse to Christ and Blessed Mary, but the Church's habitual disobedience has required punishment, and further punishment is coming for her and the world, even if Russia is to be consecrated today.  

And what merit is there in Newchurch consecrating Russia, anyway? Newchurch is not the Catholic Church. It only has material validity, but so does the Old "Catholic" Church, but it's far from being really Catholic, too.

Your response actually supports what I'm saying, but you don't realize it.

I agree that the chastisement will probably happen, but it won't be because its inevitable, but because the world probably will not repent of its numerous sins and Russia will not be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary anytime soon. If the Church hierarchy and the western world would somehow repent tomorrow, return to the Catholic faith and the Pope would consecrate Russia, disaster could still be avoided. All the warnings we know from Fatima (at least the ones we are aware of - we have only general understanding of what is in covered up part of the Third Secret) and Akita are conditional. But, alas, considering how much indulged in sin is the world, repentance is extremely unlikely. That does not change the fact that we should pray for it and we should pray for the Consecration of Russia. Consecration, which will eventually happen - as we were promised. Whether chastisement will happen before, it is up to us.

I agree that the chastisement will probably happen, but it won't be because its inevitable, but because the world probably will not repent of its numerous sins and Russia will not be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary anytime soon.

So the chastisement has not already happened according to you?
What is even the timeline on this prophecy, it's been 70 to 100 years already.

"When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to* punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father."


*in 70-100 years more or less