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Author Topic: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited  (Read 3747 times)

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Offline Erica Kauffman

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Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2022, 12:56:32 AM »
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  • SSPX has most certainly stated their side of the story.  They believe that the situation was consensual.
    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/5280-sspx-priest-backpedals-on-kaufmann-case
    Evidently they have witnesses who stated that they had noticed a "disordered friendship" between the two ... possibly some kind of flirtatious behavior, excessive affection, etc.

    Between this and the bizarre situation with the key, the conclusion is hard to escape.  If the file contained testimony from people who aver that some kind of overly-affectionate perhaps flirtatious relationship existed between the two even after the rapes are alleged to have taken place, together with the fact that this continued for months with the same copy of the key ... it's pretty much an open and shut case.

    I was never part of any investigation. That is against canon law. Why not attach the email he wrote to me also published on the Remnant. Easy to pick and choose what version works for you.

    Offline Erica Kauffman

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #16 on: November 23, 2022, 01:07:16 AM »
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  •  Furthermore, this new topic is not about Erica Kaufman either.  Whatever she did or did not do is, hopefully, not under discussion here.  Again, the thread should focus strictly on what Arzuaga did or didn't do. 

    Fr. Phluger's letter to Michael Matt clearly indicates that the matter came before Bp. Fellay.  He recognized that Arzuaga did what he did, and took disciplinary measures against his priest, short of dismissing him outright from the Society.  

    But it will always be about me ... the seductress. The only defense against rape is to shame and discredit the victim.

    Also, no disciplinary actions were taken against Arzuaga. I presented all the docuмentation of the cover-up in my videos.


    Offline Erica Kauffman

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #17 on: November 23, 2022, 01:24:09 AM »
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  • Another thought....

    Fr. Arzuaga has not admitted to any crime. 

    I have to wonder why Miss Kauffman has not taken Fr. Arzuaga to court in a civil hearing. Maybe she has done so, and has not been forthcoming about it. And perhaps she has already been paid damages out of court. We just don't know. We only have her word for anything.

    Here is your difficulty: you are not thinking. Arzuaga did admit his love for me to his superiors and that he was having intercourse with me. I told Fellay and Pfluger in 1997 it was rape and I will maintain that to my last breath. This came up again because I chose to update the board on Arzuaga's secret move to Argentina. I have never sued Arzuaga or settled out of court with him or the SSPX, although Wegner did make the offer.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #18 on: November 23, 2022, 11:43:58 AM »
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  • Even Fr. Phluger recognizes that  Erica was a victim of gross sɛҳuąƖ abuse, and he is very apologetic about it.  Yet Arzuaga is still a priest in good standing with the Society.  From 1991 to the present, though subject to Fellay's restrictions and disciplinary measures, Arzuaga is still a priest in the Society.  He does what all priests in the Society do, to this very day.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #19 on: November 23, 2022, 01:18:02 PM »
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  • Here is your difficulty: you are not thinking. Arzuaga did admit his love for me to his superiors and that he was having intercourse with me. I told Fellay and Pfluger in 1997 it was rape and I will maintain that to my last breath. This came up again because I chose to update the board on Arzuaga's secret move to Argentina. I have never sued Arzuaga or settled out of court with him or the SSPX, although Wegner did make the offer.

    No, my problem isn't that I'm not thinking. I'm just not thinking in the way that you insist on. However, I will say this: your above post is far more charitable than you have been in the past regarding anyone who doesn't go along with your version of the story. I appreciate that you are trying to be more charitable. I recall your comments at the Remnant with the original story. You treated those who wanted to have more info very badly. 

    Anyway.....you said that this came up again because you chose to update the board on Arzuaga's secret move to Argentina. But you knew about the move last Easter, correct?

    It seems to me that you are only doing an update so that you can say "I told you so" regarding the Stafki situation. You said in your initial "update" post on the other thread two days ago:

    "As you are all pondering the abominable Stafki abuse and the reporting timeline issued by Fullerton, I hope you keep in mind that they are all liars and that I did my best to help protect you and your loved ones."
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Erica Kauffman

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #20 on: November 23, 2022, 04:40:15 PM »
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  • I denounced Arzuaga in a face to face meeting with +Fellay and Fr. Pfluger in December of 1997. +Fellay PROMISED Arzuaga would be sent to a monastery for the rest of his life. That was satisfactory to me (much better than prison). That is why I never reported to the police. But, sadly, +Fellay lied and never disciplined Arzuaga, feeding me lies via letters I have shown to all. The statute of limitations expired, which is exactly what +Fellay wanted. I have been fighting with the SSPX behind closed doors until a fateful meeting with Wegner, then USDS, in 2019. This meeting compelled me, in good conscience, to go public and caution anyone who would listen of the deep corruption within the SSPX.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #21 on: November 23, 2022, 04:45:49 PM »
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  • How anyone remains in the SSPX is beyond me.  They're dirty!

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #22 on: November 23, 2022, 04:56:20 PM »
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  • How anyone remains in the SSPX is beyond me.  They're dirty!

    Is it your goal to get anyone and everyone to not attend SSPX for masses and sacraments? Maybe that's Miss Kauffman's goal as well.

    Here's the thing - we already know that the SSPX has problems. No one here has claimed that the SSPX is as pure as the driven snow. Not at all.

    Whatever corruption that exists in the SSPX - and we know that it exists - the conciliar church is even worse. I have not seen corruption at the chapel level where I occasionally attend. In fact, I would go as far as to say that corruption isn't the norm at the chapel level, and that's where most of us exist. What we can take away from this is that we must always be vigilant. That doesn't mean that we automatically assume that all clergy in the SSPX are evil and corrupt. That would be a foolish thing to believe.

    It's good that Miss Kauffman has warned the faithful about Fr. Arzuago. She's done her duty. We are careful when it comes to priests of ANY group or order (not just the SSPX). Somehow I think that won't be enough. Bitterness rules her and it seems it will do so for the rest of her life, and perhaps Hollingsworth too. I hope that Miss Kauffman finds peace and is able to forgive. I'll offer prayers for her, her daughter, and Fr. Arzuago.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #23 on: November 23, 2022, 04:59:44 PM »
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  • Where are you going to Mass?  
     
    I think most churches are filthy anymore.  
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #24 on: November 23, 2022, 05:54:35 PM »
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  •  
    Erica: But it will always be about me ... the seductress. The only defense against rape is to shame and discredit the victim.
     Also, no disciplinary actions were taken against Arzuaga. I presented all the documentation of the cover-up in my videos.



    Erica, I did not want this thread to be about you. That is the reason I started a new topic. I wanted it to be strictly about Arzuaga’s behavior. But, alas, certain forum members always bring it back to you and your alleged culpability. I am powerless to do anything about it. The only reason I continue posting is that people, who may google 'Arzuaga' in order to get information about the affair, may come across useful CI postings like, perhaps, this one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I refer below to Phluger’s recently reposted letter to Michael Matt, Jan. 27, 2021. Excerpts of that letter are reprinted below. I have certain questions concerning them. Perhaps Erica or some others with actual knowledge can shed some additional light.

    Phluger writes: ...I expressed my deep compassion for her, as well as my shame for the past facts that she had revealed. It was difficult for me not to recognize her as the victim of an odious abuse, and not to respond to her call for help.

    me: How can Phluger contend that Eric was the victim of “odius abuse,” when his superior seems to conclude that the whole thing was "consensual" between two adultsl? What is Phluger ashamed about?

    Phluger writes: I corroborated her version of the story and questioned, with her, the management of this case by the SSPX.

    me: By ‘corroboration’ of Erica’s version, does that mean he accepts her story of rape? Does he agree that the case was mismanaged or not handled properly by SSPX?

    Phluger writes: I made a regrettable mistake at the time.

    me: What exactly, in clear English, was that “regrettable mistake?”

    Pfluger writes: As the file never passed through my hands, I happened to be unaware, when writing to Miss Kauffman, of a number of details that I have since learned and which today force me to admit in good conscience that I contributed to convey a distorted image of what really happened.

    me: What exactly is that “distorted image” to which Pfluger now admits contributing?

    Phluger writes: Bishop Fellay had then taken severe disciplinary measures to supervise the priest, who had to spend a year in penance in a monastery before being sent to Europe to exercise his ministry there, with restrictions during about ten years, which were applied and respected.

    me: I see no “severe disciplinary measures taken.” Maybe some enlightened soul can help me to understand just how drastic they really were. Erica will testify that Arzuaga was never really disciplined, much less kicked out of the SSPX.

    Phluger writes: Contrary to what she (Erica) states in her December 30th post, this priest (Arzuaga) has never been in charge of a school, nor has he ever been allowed to travel freely, out of the control of his superiors.

    me: Is that true? I suspect that it isn’t

    Phluger writes: (+Fellay)  came to the conclusion that it was not a case of rape, but of a reciprocal sentimental relationship. A very sad and serious story, moreover, since such a thing is directly contrary to the sanctity of the priesthood.

    me: So why then does Arzuaga still exercise a priestly ministry in the SSPX? Why do they tolerate unsanctifed priests? Is it because the ranks of the SSPX swell with these perps?





    Offline Miles Christi

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #25 on: November 23, 2022, 06:02:21 PM »
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  • The Shrew's stock rebuttals:

    a. No one has a right to an opinion differing from yours.
    b. You bully everyone with an opinion different from yours
    c. sede… blah, blah, blah… sede… blah, blah, blah… sede…
    d. I know your true intentions.
    Tame that shrew!


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #26 on: November 23, 2022, 06:42:07 PM »
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  • me: So why then does Arzuaga still exercise a priestly ministry in the SSPX? Why do they tolerate unsanctifed priests? Is it because the ranks of the SSPX swell with these perps?

    Perhaps it's because they use the same rationale when sending around priests who refuse conditional ordination, or it's what prompts them to get involved with GREC, or cover up a homo scandal in Post Falls, or... yada, yada, yada.  Maybe it's just bunkum from the top down.  While there are good priests and pious faithful trying to hold on to what's left of the Catholic religion, the organization has created and left some massive wreckage in its wake.  I don't want to appear too harsh but until they change their tune, away from the new altars and barren churches, and a seminary that looks like a maximum-security state penitentiary, maybe any good things are just lipstick on a pig?

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #27 on: November 23, 2022, 07:07:54 PM »
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  • Tame that shrew!
    Yep. Shake-a-spear. Eye of newt. Rule of thumb. :laugh1:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #28 on: November 23, 2022, 07:44:48 PM »
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  • me: So why then does Arzuaga still exercise a priestly ministry in the SSPX? Why do they tolerate unsanctifed priests? Is it because the ranks of the SSPX swell with these perps?


    I don't know.  Given that I don't believe he was a rapist, I would take him at my local chapel if it meant being able to assist at daily Mass and receive the Sacraments regularly.  We're all sinners.  AND ... priests often forget this ... the priesthood was not given to them for their honor and glory, or because they deserved it.  It was given for the sake of the faithful and to serve the faithful.  I'm sure that Fr. Arzuaga learned some humility.  He was at St. Peregrine for a few years, and he could give sermons about Our Blessed Mother that often literally moved me to tears.  He fell into sin, yet there but for the grace of God go we as well.  So maybe that's why?  That the needs of the faithful in this crisis could be best served by returning him into service.  He evidently did spend a year at a monastery.  Again, if this was not rape, and I do not believe it was, I would gladly take him at my local chapel.

    Offline BernardoGui

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    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #29 on: November 23, 2022, 07:59:55 PM »
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  • There were a number of valid popes who had children while they were pope. Who knows how many cardinals and bishops as well.
    The priest in question should be able to resume his duties after sufficient atonement.