Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited  (Read 2810 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hollingsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2784
  • Reputation: +2885/-512
  • Gender: Male
Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
« on: November 22, 2022, 03:03:40 PM »
  • Thanks!5
  • No Thanks!1
  • I think the original thread on Fr. Arzuago, dating from 2020, has gone about as far as it can go.  I'm introducing this fallen priest on this new thread.  The perp has already been outed successfully.  He has fathered one child in the US.  Now we learn that he fathered another in Mexico, in addition to his many other crimes.  The man was reinstated by the SSPX in 1991, and, apparently, is still with the congregation in 2022, being stationed in Argentina presently.  SSPX leaders know exactly who he is and what he has done.  Yet they still keep him onboard as a Society priest in good standing. 
    I would suggest that newcomer, Bernardo, start plowing back through 20 pages of the parent thread at https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/sspx-scandal-from-the-remnant/msg857313/#msg857313
    before he align with Ladislas.  Any honest forum member, who knows the history of Ladislaus, will tell you that the man is a nut.


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #1 on: November 22, 2022, 03:06:33 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • You believe that Cathinfo is a court of law, which has the ability to convict someone of wrongdoing, even if we only have one side of the story?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline BernardoGui

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 280
    • Reputation: +235/-37
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #2 on: November 22, 2022, 03:26:56 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • You believe that Cathinfo is a court of law, which has the ability to convict someone of wrongdoing, even if we only have one side of the story?
    You said that more concisely than I could have Meg.

    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2784
    • Reputation: +2885/-512
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #3 on: November 22, 2022, 06:30:40 PM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    You believe that Cathinfo is a court of law, which has the ability to convict someone of wrongdoing, even if we only have one side of the story?
    Meg, stop the nonsense.  You mean to imply that SSPX has another side of the story?  If so, they haven't stated it, or published any story to the contrary in defense of Arzuaga.  If anyone missed a refutation of the many charges against this perp, I'm sure you can dig them up and reprint them here. 

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #4 on: November 22, 2022, 07:00:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Meg, stop the nonsense.  You mean to imply that SSPX has another side of the story?  If so, they haven't stated it, or published any story to the contrary in defense of Arzuaga.  If anyone missed a refutation of the many charges against this perp, I'm sure you can dig them up and reprint them here.

    It's nonsense to you, but not to me. Do you honestly believe that no one has a right to an opinion on this subject which differs from yours?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9532
    • Reputation: +6252/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #5 on: November 22, 2022, 07:11:13 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Shrew's stock rebuttals:

    a. No one has a right to an opinion differing from yours.
    b. You bully everyone with an opinion different from yours
    c. sede… blah, blah, blah… sede… blah, blah, blah… sede…
    d. I know your true intentions.

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #6 on: November 22, 2022, 07:27:55 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Meg, stop the nonsense.  You mean to imply that SSPX has another side of the story?  If so, they haven't stated it, or published any story to the contrary in defense of Arzuaga.  If anyone missed a refutation of the many charges against this perp, I'm sure you can dig them up and reprint them here.

    Another thought....This issue started with the article about Fr. Matthew Stafki, and his sɛҳuąƖ abuse of his niece. The situation with Fr. Arzuaga is very different from that situation. Fr. Matthew Stafki committed a horrible crime. And how do we know that for sure? Because he admitted to it. 

    Fr. Arzuaga has not admitted to any crime. That doesn't mean he's not guilty of one, but we cannot really know, since he's not ever been charged with a crime (unlike Fr. Stafki).
    Miss Kauffman says that he raped her, but would you say that it is always and everywhere been true that women never lie about this sort of thing? NEVER? 

    I have to wonder why Miss Kauffman has not taken Fr. Arzuaga to court in a civil hearing. Maybe she has done so, and has not been forthcoming about it. And perhaps she has already been paid damages out of court. We just don't know. We only have her word for anything. 

    You are always willing to accept as fact that the SSPX is absolutely guilty, no matter what. If a priest has been accused, it doesn't matter if it's credible or not----in your view he is guilty beyond a doubt. Always. Why is that? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41859
    • Reputation: +23917/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #7 on: November 22, 2022, 07:46:34 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • SSPX has most certainly stated their side of the story.  They believe that the situation was consensual.
    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/5280-sspx-priest-backpedals-on-kaufmann-case
    Quote
    January 27th, 2021

    Dear Mr. Michael Matt,
    In a December 29th article, you chose to make public a private letter that I wrote to Miss Erica Kauffman, in which I expressed my deep compassion for her, as well as my shame for the past facts that she had revealed. It was difficult for me not to recognize her as the victim of an odious abuse, and not to respond to her call for help.

    In doing so, as you noted in your introduction, I corroborated her version of the story and questioned, with her, the management of this case by the SSPX.

    However – and it is now a serious duty for me to point this out to you – I made a regrettable mistake at the time. And it is in the hope of repairing it that I am writing to you today, taking advantage on a personal basis of the invitation you have extended to the SSPX authorities.

    As the file never passed through my hands, I happened to be unaware, when writing to Miss Kauffman, of a number of details that I have since learned and which today force me to admit in good conscience that I contributed to convey a distorted image of what really happened.

    Indeed, having been able to consult the archives of the SSPX, I realized that Bishop Fellay, then Superior General, had indeed treated the case with all possible care.

    At the end of his investigation, and after having heard all the parties, he came to the conclusion that it was not a case of rape, but of a reciprocal sentimental relationship. A very sad and serious story, moreover, since such a thing is directly contrary to the sanctity of the priesthood.

    I also learned that other people had noticed at the time the existence of a disordered friendship between the two persons.

    This sinful affair credibly explains how several meetings could have taken place in the same place – in the apartment of Miss Kauffman, of which this priest had a copy of the key – under always similar circuмstances, over a period of several months.

    Bishop Fellay had then taken severe disciplinary measures to supervise the priest, who had to spend a year in penance in a monastery before being sent to Europe to exercise his ministry there, with restrictions during about ten years, which were applied and respected.

    Whatever one's opinion may be in this story, it is impossible for me today not to recognize that Miss Kauffman is mistaken when she believes that Fr. Arzuaga was never restricted, or that the SSPX ignored her complaint. The opposite took place.

    Contrary to what she states in her December 30th post, this priest has never been in charge of a school, nor has he ever been allowed to travel freely, out of the control of his superiors.

    Nevertheless, I deeply deplore what happened, and I sympathize wholeheartedly with the distress in which Miss Kauffman finds herself today.

    Renewing my compassion and assuring her of my prayers for all her intentions, I express my regret for having contributed to spread a false judgment on this sad story.

    Fr. Niklaus Pfluger
    P. Niklaus Pfluger  |  FSSPX   
    Noviciat Ste-Thérèse

    Evidently they have witnesses who stated that they had noticed a "disordered friendship" between the two ... possibly some kind of flirtatious behavior, excessive affection, etc.

    Between this and the bizarre situation with the key, the conclusion is hard to escape.  If the file contained testimony from people who aver that some kind of overly-affectionate perhaps flirtatious relationship existed between the two even after the rapes are alleged to have taken place, together with the fact that this continued for months with the same copy of the key ... it's pretty much an open and shut case.


    Offline Jr1991

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 628
    • Reputation: +287/-84
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #8 on: November 22, 2022, 08:00:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Bishop Sanborn explains what should be done if a priest is found guilty of sɛҳuąƖ misconduct. Considering the atrocities, Arzuago has committed( rape, fathering children, etc.), he would not last a day under these conditions.




    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41859
    • Reputation: +23917/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #9 on: November 22, 2022, 08:01:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Meg, stop the nonsense.  You mean to imply that SSPX has another side of the story?  If so, they haven't stated it, or published any story to the contrary in defense of Arzuaga.  If anyone missed a refutation of the many charges against this perp, I'm sure you can dig them up and reprint them here.

    See the above post.  They are not defending Fr. Arzuaga's grave violation of clerical celibacy, but simply indicating that they believe it was not rape.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41859
    • Reputation: +23917/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #10 on: November 22, 2022, 08:02:44 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Bishop Sanborn explains what should be done if a priest is found guilty of sɛҳuąƖ misconduct. Considering the atrocities, Arzuago has committed( rape, fathering children, etc.), he would not last a day under these conditions.

    You persist in claiming that it was rape whereas the evidence indicates the contrary.  Between the inexplicable "key" situation, SSPX interviewed witnesses who assert that the two had a suspicious disordered relationship ... i.e. that it was pretty obvious that the two had something going on.

    Did you even listen to the first 4 minutes of the video you posted, where Bishop Sanborn takes a very rational and balanced view of such accusations, that they may or may not be true, or partly true, partly false, that there are sinners (people who go bad) in every walk of life, etc.  He says that the accusations he saw seem credible ... but he does not know if they're true.  Solid answer from the Bishop, the entire import of which you somehow missed.


    Offline Jr1991

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 628
    • Reputation: +287/-84
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #11 on: November 22, 2022, 08:14:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You persist in claiming that it was rape whereas the evidence indicates the contrary.  Between the inexplicable "key" situation, SSPX interviewed witnesses who assert that the two had a suspicious disordered relationship ... i.e. that it was pretty obvious that the two had something going on.

    Did you even listen to the first 4 minutes of the video you posted, where Bishop Sanborn takes a very rational and balanced view of such accusations, that they may or may not be true, or partly true, partly false, that there are sinners (people who go bad) in every walk of life, etc.  He says that the accusations he saw seem credible ... but he does not know if they're true.  Solid answer from the Bishop, the entire import of which you somehow missed.

    You need to keep listening; it starts at the 7:00-minute mark. 

    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2784
    • Reputation: +2885/-512
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #12 on: November 22, 2022, 09:36:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I started this new topic, hoping that attention would be focused strictly on Fr. Arzuaga.  I remind Meg and others that it is not about the most recent case of an SSPX priest and his young niece.  Nor is it about numerous other SSPX priests and their sɛҳuąƖ misconduct.  
    Furthermore, this new topic is not about Erica Kaufman either.  Whatever she did or did not do is, hopefully, not under discussion here.  Again, the thread should focus strictly on what Arzuaga did or didn't do.  
    Fr. Phluger's letter to Michael Matt clearly indicates that the matter came before Bp. Fellay.  He recognized that Arzuaga did what he did, and took disciplinary measures against his priest, short of dismissing him outright from the Society.  (Full dismissal from the priesthood would have been Bp. Sanborn's solution, from his own testimony.)  
    As to the sɛҳuąƖ crimes committed by Fr. Arzuaga, there doesn't seem to be 'another side of the story.'  As a priest, he entered into sɛҳuąƖ relationships with at least two women consensual or otherwise, and produced at least two children in the course of those relationships.  We presume he is still a member in good standing with the SSPX.

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 569
    • Reputation: +221/-133
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #13 on: November 22, 2022, 10:52:22 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • This priest fathered "at least two children"?  Ok, sin has happened - always has and always will - but this shuffling around and covering up is disgusting.  Just speaking freely here but with the Post Falls debacle and a million other deviations, I'm getting real tired of the SSPX. lol

    Who gave to the order to become a thoroughly half-baked organization?  To paraphrase the well-known Fatima prophecy, "the shoddiness begins at the top."



    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 9532
    • Reputation: +6252/-940
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Fr. Pablo Arzuago revisited
    « Reply #14 on: November 22, 2022, 11:14:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fr. Arzuaga has not admitted to any crime. That doesn't mean he's not guilty of one, but we cannot really know, since he's not ever been charged with a crime (unlike Fr. Stafki).…
    and


    …They are not defending Fr. Arzuaga's grave violation of clerical celibacy, but simply indicating that they believe it was not rape.


    Utter rubbish from both of you.

    There are forms of sɛҳuąƖ abuse that should be—and are—punished: adult-minor, doctor-patient, therapist-patient, lawyer-client, and priest-parishioner.

    There is an imbalance of power in such affairs that is a species of force.

    It is inarguable that Erica had a child. Who here contends that Arzuaga did not father that child? So, at the minimum unless you want to argue for a new virgin birth or, as typical of both of you, presume that you can read the interior forum of Erica as some type of sacrilegious seductress, Arzuaga is guilty of such sɛҳuąƖ abuse. Worse, since Erica argues the added element of physical force, the matter is rape—R.A.P.E!

    So, which is it? Virgin birth, interior forum, or Azuarga guilty?