When this thread first started it didn't look so bad.......
I really don't know much about Fr. Gruner, except that he's a traditional priest of some sort and that he's very devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. Can you all tell me more about him? Should I listen to what he says? Is he a good traditional priest?
And then I saw how Elizabeth was dealing with it so I figured it would be okay......
Fr. Gruner is a very holy, mild-mannered, patient Catholic priest who has worked tirelessly to spread the Fatima warnings. He is rather notable for not ending up letting his visibility go to his head,IMO.
He was way ahead of his time exposing important issues of the day in his old radio show. I think his old radio interviews are still available to listen to for free at his apostolate's website, fatima.org
And then I noticed on the Index page that Incredulous had answered, so I
presumed everything was hunky dory..
..but I failed to read Icred's post.......
Well, who could doubt a Fatima priest?
There is one problem I have noticed with his apostolate. Tell me if you agree?
Around the Summer of 2009, Father Gruner attended the SSPX Winona ordinations.
A friend of mine was there and overheard his conversation concerning the "Two Sister Lucys" conspiracy.
As you know, the whole thing is so pathetically "ʝʊdɛօ-masonic".
But, Our Lady of Fatima did warn us of the diabolical confusion we would be subjected to... didn't she?
Father admitted of being aware of this story. Whether he agreed with it, I do not know? However, the physical evidence is overwhelming that a switch of the original Fatima Nun had been made.
In any case, Father Gruner said in this conversation, that he did not want to bring-up the "Two Sister Lucys" in his publications.
Why? Because it would upset his Novus ordo contributors.
So our Lord tells us, "... the Truth will set you free".
But in Father Gruner's case, the truth will impact your donations.
Personally, his apostolate is hugely important, but his logic is not right.
Now I see that was my first mistake. Perhaps you are unaware that Fr. Gruner
has personally let pilgrimages to Fatima more times than most people have
been to Starbucks. He had tried on NUMEROUS occasions to have a personal
interview with Sister Lucia of the Immaculate Conception, otherwise known
as Sr. Lucy of Fatima, but was denied access. One time, when it was most
promising, he had an appointment, and showed up early just to be sure, and
the nun at the front door told him that the appointment had been canceled
because Sr. Lucia was infirm that day. So Fr. Gruner patiently waited in the
area, in hopes that something might improve, only to learn that another visitor
came about an hour later, after the time of his own appointment, and was
able to enter to have a meeting with Sister Lucia; therefore, he reasoned
that she must have suddenly regained her health, so he returned to the
front door and was told that no, she was still sick.
On another time when Fr. Gruner was unable to see Sr. Lucy, some rag-tag
busy body (my own assessment) was able to get in to see her without any
restrictions, an had an interview with her during which he claimed to "hold
her hands," and he was merely a layman whom she had never met before.
Does this make sense to you? This mere layman used that "interview"
to basically contradict everything that Sr. Lucia had been saying about Fatima
all the years before then, and he made up a small booklet to announce the
new sister lucy and her story.
Now, if this were any mere mortal, like you or me, I highly doubt it would
have been tough for us to conclude that there was now an imposter sister
lucy in place of the original Sr. Lucia. But not Fr. Gruner.
It seems to me that he found the strength to rise above the obvious and
offer it up as a penance to Our Lady, and being the most prominent Fatima
Priest in the world, literally, I highly doubt that Our Lady would have allowed
Fr. Gruner to fall into that temptation that comes so easily to us on the
outside who know practically nothing about Fatima compared to Fr. Gruner.
Second criticism:
I think his organization is infiltrated with people who want to damage his apostolate.
Why do I say this?
I've been on his mailing list for over ten years and used to be a monthly donor.
During this time, I noticed "irregularities" in how I did and did not receive his publications and solicitations for donations.
It was as if there are saboteurs within his group that was attempting to disrupt his operation.
If you have that concern, Incredulous, perhaps you ought to make it a point
to meet him personally and tell him about it. Do not send him a letter, because
it would not add up: you fear he has subversives, so why would there not be
some opening his mail or e-mail? He's a busy priest.
I visited him in Canada and two assistants attended Novus Ordo regularly and even on Sundays. One told me over dinner that Fr. G gave conferences around the usa and was asked once, "What do we do about First Saturdays." The assistant told me that he tells the audiences to attend the Novus Ordo for their First Saturdays. I questioned him about that to receive the curt response and a motion of his hand , "Just leave that to the SSPX . . . that is not our battle."
I had received a letter which asked for donations as he had had to lay people off. So drove to the Fatima Center. During a lunch break at the large table outside, I remarked that it was a shame that he had to lay people off bc of problems with money. They all laughed and said "That's not the reason . . . we just ran out of work for them."
I wanted to follow up with Fr. Kramer but left Canada and returned home.
I was sickened over the whole matter.
Tantum Aude!
Another backbiting critic. Why don't you take this up with Fr. Gruner in person?
Are you not man enough? Obviously you prefer to spread rumors on the
Internet rather than go to the source. Shame on you!
Fr. Gruner does a good job of promoting Fatima, he is to be commended for that.
As far as his view on the two Sister Lucias, I don't think he believes there were two. I've seen him quote the "Sister Lucia" of the 1960s (and after that too, I think, though I may be mistaken).
Fr. Gruner is obviously aware of the "two sister lucys rumor" but it seems to
me that he has not judged this a prudent tack to take - because there is no
going back. Once he comes out saying there were two, then he cannot so
easily come back later and say there was only one and that someone tricked
him or whatever, like +Fellay has tried to do. One loses credibility that way,
and it seems overall that perhaps someone in the Vatican was trying to set
things up so as to trip him up and make him take that step, in order to
destroy Fr. Gruner's apostolate. This is just me talking, not Fr. Gruner.
So go ahead and accuse me of spreading a rumor. Hint: I can't wait!
Third criticism:
Father Gruner expressed intentions of attending both the SSPX-SO priest's Retreat and Family Conference in Boston, KY last December.
In both cases, he said he was coming, but was a "no-show".
Of course, he had good excuses, something about trouble with making his transportation departures on time.
Now let's see:
Would photos of Fr. Gruner at these SSPX Resistance events upset Bp. Fellay?
Of course.
Would photos of Fr. Gruner with the SSPX Resistance upset his Novus ordo contributors? Probably.
So, where does Fr. Gruner land?
Does he just float above this battle for the traditional Catholic Faith like an angel, sprinkling his Fatima publications on all of us?
Or, does he stand up for the Truth and fight by our sides?
We'll know who's side Father Gruner is on if he shows-up at the Winona ordinations this summer.
I think you're getting a little harsh, Incred. I had hoped for better from you.
This is a priest of the Faith we share, and you're talking like this?
I have been present when Fr. Gruner has said Mass using an original Missal
from 1571. Have you ever heard of a priest doing that? He had to have a
sheet with a couple of prayers on it that have been added since then but
everything in the old Missal was otherwise identical to our pre-1954 missals.
Now, why don't you criticize Fr. Gruner for not standing up to the SSPX over
their use of the 1962 Missal of John XXIII? Or, are you uncomfortable with
that? But you're not uncomfortable with accusing him of not taking up your
own pet agendas that he might not be comfortable with? But isn't not being
comfortable with a certain thing reason enough not to come out against it?
BTW showing up at SSPX ordinations in the past was reason to be on the local
bishop's hit list. Are you aware that Fr. Gruner has been personally attacked
by the bishop in his local diocese over his not obtaining permission from him
to run a worldwide Fatima apostolate?
Second criticism:
I think his organization is infiltrated with people who want to damage his apostolate.
Why do I say this?
I've been on his mailing list for over ten years and used to be a monthly donor.
During this time, I noticed "irregularities" in how I did and did not receive his publications and solicitations for donations.
It was as if there are saboteurs within his group that was attempting to disrupt his operation.
I think seeing the hand of saboteurs in this is a bit grandiose. It simply requires inept or overworked volunteers, or perhaps an overworked Father Gruner himself.
Do you treat other businesses this way? When there's a problem in a
restaurant, you're wasting your time if you don't ask to see the manager. So
have you asked to speak with Fr. Gruner?
Or, do you prefer to sully his name with grandiose fantasy? Maybe you are
one of the saboteurs! (Not Sigismund!)
Second criticism:
I think his organization is infiltrated with people who want to damage his apostolate.
Why do I say this?
I've been on his mailing list for over ten years and used to be a monthly donor.
During this time, I noticed "irregularities" in how I did and did not receive his publications and solicitations for donations.
It was as if there are saboteurs within his group that was attempting to disrupt his operation.
I think seeing the hand of saboteurs in this is a bit grandiose. It simply requires inept or overworked volunteers, or perhaps an overworked Father Gruner himself.
Well, come on now. These "irregularities" went on for over ten years.
For example, if I was one of your monthly financial supporters, do you think
you'd send me the Fatima Crusader one in a while ?
Never got one.
Infiltration is a given. Even Fr. Gruner admitted the warning of a satanic apparition on the day he started the apostolate. (Ref: Fatima priest)
Have you ever spoken to Fr. Gruner about this? You keep seeming to enjoy
talking with disrespect of his apostolate behind his back. Is that Catholic?
I recall us, as a family, watching his show on TV in the 80s where Fr. Gruner always repeating the message of praying that "the Holy Father would consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary". He seemed to repeat this mantra at least a dozen times every episode - not that that's a bad thing.
Then something happened, I am not sure exactly what that was, but it seems a controversy arose because it became known that JP2 consecrated Russia
It seems you mean to say that it became popular all of a sudden to say
that JPII had consecrated Russia, but that was incorrect. He had not mentioned
Russia, and at the time it became obvious to Fr. that his PSA had been
lacking, that he had been trying to "Keep It Simple Stupid," and in the
process had left open a weakness, one which the devil took full advantage of,
and now, he was going to have to up the ante - and add some footnotes
to the topic, which, of course, the minions of hecklers jumped all over.
- from that point on, Fr. Gruner's mantra went from "the Holy Father needs consecrate Russia" to "the pope did the consecration improperly" to "the Holy Father needs [to] consecrate Russia together with all the bishops" to "the Holy Father needs [to] consecrate Russia together with all the bishops of the world together all at the exact same time" - in effect, seemingly at least, making the act of consecration all but impossible to be performed properly.
This isn't fair. While it's true he did take the message up in steps, so as to
give the impression that the Message of Fatima was "changing," he did go to
some pains to explain along the way what was going on. The Message is and
always was the same, but just as people in 1917 to 1929 hardly knew much
of the details of what went on in 1917, because, mostly, it was just too much
for them to handle, so too, Fr. Gruner was discrete in not putting out too much
too soon, so as to make people (like you) think that it would be "impossible"
to ever pull of the Collegial Consecration. Well, it could have been done just
fine at Vat.II, with all the bishops gathered there at one time, you know. ETC.
I've not followed him for the last +20 years because of that - it could be that he found out the consecration was not properly done and also what was really necessary in order for it to be properly done, I don't know - but IMO, the whole thing seemed like - and still does to me - some kind of ploy to keep his Fatima organization alive. I also cannot help but wonder why one of the books he sells: "The Third Secret" was like as thick as a phone book - I mean, seems like the actual secret should only be a few paragraphs long.......a pamphlet should be able to tell the third secret and have a page or two for explanations - again, IMO.
Now I understand there is another book relatively new they put out called "The Fourth Secret of Fatima" - whether Fr. Gruner is associated with it or not I don't know, but for me as one who stopped paying a lot of attention to him a long time ago because every time you turned around there was some new development from Fatima, I cannot help but think that there is plenty of money involved and therefore plenty of money to be lost should his Fatima network dry up and IMO, these regular new developments are one way to keep the money machine alive - if in fact that is what he is actually doing.
Pardon me for asking, but had you "followed" any of the other "Fatima" groups
during those 20 years? Like the Fatima Family Messenger of Fr. Fox, whose
inane twisting of the facts and conspicuous calumny against his fellow priest
practically knew no bounds? It would make sense that someone who, like you,
is prone to cast aspersions on a priest, would be attracted to Fr. Fox's
checkered works. Please note: all the time Fr Fox was doing his dirty work,
and giving interviews with his doubletalk and alligator grin, Fr. Gruner never
said a word about Fr Fox's ad hominem attacks. That alone should tell you
a lot - if you're interested in the truth, that is.
John Paul II didn't even mention Russia; he only consecrated the world, only mentioning Russia as still needing to be consecrated according to Our Lady's requests.
Correct.
From the sound of what you all are saying, Fr. Gruner seems very commited to Fatima, but he's undecided on his stance on the crisis in the Church. What an odd fellow.
A priest in Fr. Gruner's position is not able to fight all the spot fires at once.
His commitment is the the whole and complete Message of Fatima, which is
a HUGE topic in itself. You really can't expect to tell him what to do. He is
the priest and you are not. Did you go telling Fr. Frank Poncelet that he
should be preaching about the evils of Vat.II or the crisis in the Church or
the problems with the NovusOrdomass or the corruption of the sacraments,
or the abuse of children, or the Worker Priest movement, INSTEAD of
preaching about the evils of Television and telling people to put a brick
through their screen? Why not? Aren't you the one who is on the warpath
for ANY PRIEST who does not fight the CRISIS IN THE CHURCH fight just
the way you want to see it?
Or, are you just devoted somehow to smearing the good name of Fr. Gruner?????
If I were not more familiar with your posts, Alex117, I would suspect the latter.
But I think you are really better than that, so you get cut some slack... for now...
No, Alex. Fr. Gruner is not an odd fellow. He is a gentle fellow. He is a very good Catholic priest, and I am sorry you listened to people trying to sully his good name.
As I said, I've not followed him for over 20 years but I would like to know where it is he places his allegiance. Does he still say the NO as he did back in the 80s? In those days, he only celebrated the TLM on occasion so I ask only out of curiosity.
Has he ever explained what the the people of Russia will be converted too?
I mean that right now, the Church is under modernist control - has he ever explained how the Russian people will be converted to the true faith and not the NO faith?
I ask because since the modernist NO is the error of Russia, it makes zero sense to have a modernist pope and all modernist bishops consecrate the people of Russia for their conversion to the NO.
I am not trying to be facetious but to my limited knowledge about him, he still awaits for the pope, who sees no reason for the conversion of anyone let alone the people of Russia, along with all the bishops of the world, who are arguably the boldest of all anti-Catholic conspirators, to consecrate Russia to the IHM for their conversion - seems insane to me because to what are the people of Russia going to convert to these days? - The NO?
The Church and faith are unrecognizable these days compared to when the consecration was supposed to have been done so I am assuming that he has an answer to this dilemma.
Topic: Fr. Nicholas Gruner (Read 12605 times)