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Author Topic: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018  (Read 7853 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2018, 11:51:49 AM »
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    • Here's Father Sanborn on the +Mendez consecration of Father Kelly.

    http://tradcath.proboards.com/thread/783/mendez-kelly-affair-sanborn
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #31 on: March 04, 2018, 12:05:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on March 04, 2018, 09:29:14 AM
    If a SSPX priest opted to go Resistance and decided to bring a civil suit against Bishop Fellay, would he be excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
    Short answer, no. Longer answer, the sspx is still not canonically regular.  And, I am under the impression that this statute is not in the new canon law, and only in the old.  So, no excommunication for a lawsuit.  
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #32 on: March 04, 2018, 12:17:35 PM »
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    • It is interesting(but not surprising) how the so called "sede doubtist" ladislaus sides with the sede extremists/dogmatic vacantists against the sspv.  The bottom line in my book is that the sspv cspv have a legitimate argument.  Time will tell whether it is valid or not.  I however prefer to enjoy it as a desert, rather than a main course.  But, that is the difference between me and them.  They have doubts about the papacy, I do not.  I would avoid the cmri on the grounds of their invalidating all orders but their own.  I would avoid them for their dogmatic vacantism.   
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #33 on: March 04, 2018, 12:20:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 04, 2018, 11:32:19 AM
    What's ironic is that EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT that the SSPV has used against the validity of the Thuc line applies EVEN MORE to the Mendez consecration of +Kelly.
    Garbage.  You do not know their arguments.  
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #34 on: March 04, 2018, 12:23:26 PM »
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    • Croix - I am not going to scan over all canon law in order to find this.  However, just trust me on this one.  The nine have not been excommunicated by this.  They have however been compromised by this, and thoroughly humiliated by +Williamson for this.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #35 on: March 04, 2018, 12:30:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: PG on March 04, 2018, 12:17:35 PM
    It is interesting(but not surprising) how the so called "sede doubtist" ladislaus sides with the sede extremists/dogmatic vacantists against the sspv.  The bottom line in my book is that the sspv cspv have a legitimate argument.  Time will tell whether it is valid or not.  I however prefer to enjoy it as a desert, rather than a main course.  But, that is the difference between me and them.  They have doubts about the papacy, I do not.  I would avoid the cmri on the grounds of their invalidating all orders but their own.  I would avoid them for their dogmatic vacantism.  

    This particular point of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with their theological position on the crisis.  We're talking about questions of sacramental validity and about the licitness of taking a bishop to court.  Doesn't matter if you're R&R, sedevacantist, or "sededoubtist".
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #36 on: March 04, 2018, 12:31:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: PG on March 04, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
    Croix - I am not going to scan over all canon law in order to find this.  However, just trust me on this one.  The nine have not been excommunicated by this.  They have however been compromised by this, and thoroughly humiliated by +Williamson for this.  

    Why should someone just "trust" you?  If the old Code of Canon Law remains in force, as the Nine claim, then I don't see how they are NOT excommunicated.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #37 on: March 04, 2018, 12:33:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: PG on March 04, 2018, 12:20:01 PM
    Garbage.  You do not know their arguments.  

    Ridiculous.  I personally knew several members of the Nine, and in particular then-Father Sanborn, when all this was shaking out.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #38 on: March 04, 2018, 12:34:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: PG on March 04, 2018, 12:20:01 PM
    Garbage.  You do not know their arguments.  

    From Father Sanborn himself --
    http://tradcath.proboards.com/thread/783/mendez-kelly-affair-sanborn

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    Offline PG

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #39 on: March 04, 2018, 12:35:41 PM »
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    • Ladislaus - I am not referring to the arguments of the extremist factions of the nine.  I am saying that you do not know the arguments of the sspv cspv.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #40 on: March 04, 2018, 12:42:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: PG on March 04, 2018, 12:17:35 PM
    I would avoid the cmri on the grounds of their invalidating all orders but their own.  I would avoid them for their dogmatic vacantism.  

    You do know, right, that not all the Thuc bishops have ties to the CMRI?

    It's not the CMRI that question the validity of all orders but their own, but rather the SSPV.

    Do you know that they claimed for a long time that +Williamson and +Dolan were not validly ordained to the priesthood because at their ordination +Lefebvre only laid one hand on their heads (instead of both hands as indicated in the rubrics)?  Bishop Kelly was conditionally confirming people who had been confirmed by Bishop Williamson as a result.  I actually did some research on this question personally for Father Cekada.  I found that the Eastern Rite always used one hand for the ordination of priests and that the Rituale Romanum (of the Latin Church) also prescribed one hand for a couple centuries ... before switching back to both hands.  Expressions around the laying on of hands (plural) had to do with the fact that other bishops and even priests present at one point laid their hands on the head of the ordinand.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #41 on: March 04, 2018, 12:44:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: PG on March 04, 2018, 12:35:41 PM
    Ladislaus - I am not referring to the arguments of the extremist factions of the nine.  I am saying that you do not know the arguments of the sspv cspv.  

    Oh, I most certainly do.  I worked closely with Father Jenkins for a number of years (helped him in studio when they were making the "What Catholics Believe" TV program).  And also spent a year with then-Father Sanborn.  I heard all these arguments directly from the mouths of Fathers Jenkins, Sanborn, and Cekada.  So, apart from the SSPV themselves, I know these arguments as well as anyone.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #42 on: March 04, 2018, 01:26:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 04, 2018, 12:30:40 PM
    This particular point of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with their theological position on the crisis.  We're talking about questions of sacramental validity and about the licitness of taking a bishop to court.  Doesn't matter if you're R&R, sedevacantist, or "sededoubtist".
    It most certainly does matter to the rabid anti-sedevacantists.....they are completely blinded by it.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #43 on: March 04, 2018, 01:29:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 04, 2018, 12:33:35 PM
    Ridiculous.  I personally knew several members of the Nine, and in particular then-Father Sanborn, when all this was shaking out.
    I posted the law.  It talks about getting permission from the pope or the ordinary.  Exactly how would that work when the bishop in question (ABL) didn't even obey his pope and didn't report to his Ordinary?

    OOps...I was supposed to quote this post of yours:

    Why should someone just "trust" you?  If the old Code of Canon Law remains in force, as the Nine claim, then I don't see how they are NOT excommunicated.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: Fr Joseph Selway to be consecrated bishop on 22nd February, 2018
    « Reply #44 on: March 04, 2018, 01:50:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on March 04, 2018, 09:29:14 AM
    If a SSPX priest opted to go Resistance and decided to bring a civil suit against Bishop Fellay, would he be excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
    If the Old Code of Canon Law remains in force, then it seems he would be excommunicated. I don't see how the new "Code of Canon Law 1983" (and is there a subsequent one?) can be valid since it's written by heretics with no true interest in preserving Catholic justice and order, therefore, it can't truly be in effect. But that's only my opinion. Only God knows for certain. 

    It seems that the material-only bishops & pope, who are not formal bishops & pope, can't truly impose a new Code of Canon Law, and the faithful are no obliged to follow it, just as we are not obliged to follow their obvious errors on matters of the Faith and morality in this modern/post-modern time.
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    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)
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