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Author Topic: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism  (Read 1609 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2020, 07:18:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Struthio on June 24, 2020, 08:18:02 PM
    I don't understand. If it is a usurpation of authority to say that someone has to agree with your opinion in order to be Catholic, how is Fr. Jenkins not doing exactly the same thing when he says that dogmatic sedevacantists are not Catholic because of what they believe? How is he not usurping authority in deciding who is traditional Catholic and who isn't?

    Uhm, he did not say they are not Catholic, but that they are not TRADTIONAL Catholic.  To my knowledge, he does not refuse the Sacraments to people from dogmatic sedevacantist chapels ... unless there's also a question of the +Thuc line, but that's for a different reason (that I don't agree with).  One would have to ask him precisely what he meant by that, since the term Traditional Catholics has about as many definitions as you have Traditional Catholics.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #16 on: June 25, 2020, 07:57:46 AM »
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    • Lad, what other Catholic would be truly Catholic?  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #17 on: June 25, 2020, 08:00:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 25, 2020, 07:17:11 AM
    You'll note that he didn't say the dogmatic sedes weren't Catholic, just that they weren't Traditional Catholics.  We'd have to ask him what he meant by that and what his definition of Traditional Catholic is.  Traditional Catholics is a bit of a slippery term which can mean different things to different people.

    And, no obviously, I don't agree with his position on the Thuc bishops.  That's just because I don't agree with his conclusion that they are doubtful.  But let's say you did agree.  If, for instance, you had some faithful who received the Sacraments from someone ordained by, say, one "Bishop" Ambrose Moran, wouldn't you tell the faithful that they needed to re-confess sins that had been confessed to that man?  Problem is that the +Thuc lines through +des Lauriers and +Carmona are unquestionably valid.
    Problem is....it is my understanding that even if you've been going to an unquestionably certain priest for confession, if that priest was sympathetic to the Thuc line, you still couldn't (knowingly) receive communion at an SSPV chapel.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #18 on: June 25, 2020, 09:50:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 25, 2020, 07:18:37 AM
    Quote from: Struthio on June 24, 2020, 08:18:02 PM
    I don't understand. If it is a usurpation of authority to say that someone has to agree with your opinion in order to be Catholic, how is Fr. Jenkins not doing exactly the same thing when he says that dogmatic sedevacantists are not Catholic because of what they believe? How is he not usurping authority in deciding who is traditional Catholic and who isn't?

    Uhm, he did not say they are not Catholic, but that they are not TRADTIONAL Catholic.  To my knowledge, he does not refuse the Sacraments to people from dogmatic sedevacantist chapels ... unless there's also a question of the +Thuc line, but that's for a different reason (that I don't agree with).  One would have to ask him precisely what he meant by that, since the term Traditional Catholics has about as many definitions as you have Traditional Catholics.


    The author of the quote you're commenting on is not Struthio, but Yeti, see Reply #3.
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    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #19 on: June 25, 2020, 10:35:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 25, 2020, 07:57:46 AM
    Lad, what other Catholic would be truly Catholic?  

    Well, maybe "truly" Catholic, in a sense, but I am not of the mindset that there are no Catholics in the Novus Ordo and that they're all heretics by virtue of the fact.  Many of them are in material error only.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #20 on: June 25, 2020, 10:46:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Struthio on June 25, 2020, 09:50:33 AM
    Uhm, he did not say they are not Catholic, but that they are not TRADTIONAL Catholic.  To my knowledge, he does not refuse the Sacraments to people from dogmatic sedevacantist chapels ... unless there's also a question of the +Thuc line, but that's for a different reason (that I don't agree with).  One would have to ask him precisely what he meant by that, since the term Traditional Catholics has about as many definitions as you have Traditional Catholics.



    The author of the quote you're commenting on is not Struthio, but Yeti, see Reply #3.

    Sorry if I got that wrong.  Looked like it was quoting you.
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    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #21 on: June 27, 2020, 02:57:29 AM »
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    • Where is Fr. Jenkins assigned?
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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #22 on: June 27, 2020, 02:36:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: MMagdala on June 27, 2020, 02:57:29 AM
    Where is Fr. Jenkins assigned?
    Immaculate Conception Church in Norwood, Ohio
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    Offline Argentino

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #23 on: June 27, 2020, 06:59:43 PM »
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    • This video was from over 6 years ago. He may have changed his thinking somewhat since then.

    I think it was last year that Fr. Cekada wrote an article saying that he sees evidence that once Bp. Kelly dies, the St. Piux V Society is likely to be not as harsh against the Thuc-line.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #24 on: June 27, 2020, 07:13:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Argentino on June 27, 2020, 06:59:43 PM
    This video was from over 6 years ago. He may have changed his thinking somewhat since then.

    I think it was last year that Fr. Cekada wrote an article saying that he sees evidence that once Bp. Kelly dies, the St. Piux V Society is likely to be not as harsh against the Thuc-line.

    I've seen more recent statement where Fr. Jenkins articulates a similar position re: sedevacantism.  I agree that Bishop Kelly has been the strongest impetus against the Thuc line.
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    Offline Argentino

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #25 on: June 30, 2020, 09:00:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 27, 2020, 07:13:33 PM
    I've seen more recent statement where Fr. Jenkins articulates a similar position re: sedevacantism.  I agree that Bishop Kelly has been the strongest impetus against the Thuc line.

    This past Sunday I assisted at an Oyster Bay Mass. The priest included in his announcements, for the sake of anyone new, that nobody attending the Novus Ordo in English or Latin can go to Communion. There was no hint of forbidding those who attended Thuc-line Sacraments. This appears to be easing up.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #26 on: June 30, 2020, 09:33:08 AM »
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    • Quote from: Argentino on June 30, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
    This past Sunday I assisted at an Oyster Bay Mass. The priest included in his announcements, for the sake of anyone new, that nobody attending the Novus Ordo in English or Latin can go to Communion. There was no hint of forbidding those who attended Thuc-line Sacraments. This appears to be easing up.
    I do not believe this is the case at Round Top, NY.  Of course, that is where Bishop Kelly resides.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #27 on: June 30, 2020, 09:38:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Argentino on June 30, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
    This past Sunday I assisted at an Oyster Bay Mass. The priest included in his announcements, for the sake of anyone new, that nobody attending the Novus Ordo in English or Latin can go to Communion. There was no hint of forbidding those who attended Thuc-line Sacraments. This appears to be easing up.

    That part about forbidding communion to those who attend the NOM appears to be new, as I've not heard that before from SSPV ... at least not publicly announced.
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    Offline Argentino

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #28 on: June 30, 2020, 01:03:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 30, 2020, 09:33:08 AM
    I do not believe this is the case at Round Top, NY.  Of course, that is where Bishop Kelly resides.

    It very well may be the case now for their whole organization.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
    « Reply #29 on: June 30, 2020, 02:38:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Argentino on June 30, 2020, 01:03:32 PM
    It very well may be the case now for their whole organization.
    I doubt that.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)
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