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Author Topic: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism  (Read 7395 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2020, 02:10:17 PM »
He is referring to God's system of authority, which is top - down.
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Okay, I seem to be missing something here. What principle is he using to determine that dogmatic sedes are not traditional Catholics?

Offline Yeti

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Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2020, 03:19:32 PM »
Okay, I found the relevant place in the video. It's a little after the 23-minute mark. The quote is as follows:
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Quote
Fr. Jenkins: There are some sedevacantists who are dogmatic sedevacantists. I don't even consider them to be traditional Catholics. There are some who will say "John Paul 2 was no pope. I can prove it. It's a matter of faith, and if you believe he was the pope you're not a Catholic." I don't even consider those people to be traditional Catholics at all, because they are usurping authority they don't have.
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This is madness. So the dogmatic sedevacantists are not traditional Catholics because they say people have to agree with them or they are not Catholic. But Fr. Jenkins does not consider them to be Catholic because they in turn do not agree with his position of sedevacantism being an opinion.
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I'm not saying I'm a dogmatic sedevacantist, as I probably hold to the "opinion" version of sedevacantism the way he does. So before someone condemns me of doing what I accuse Fr. Jenkins of doing, which is what he in turn accuses the dogmatic sedes of doing, I hasten to say that I do not therefore consider Fr. Jenkins to be not a traditional Catholic. My point is just that his logic is an absurdity and that hoists himself on his own petard.
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Being too strong against dogmatism inevitably leads to ... more dogmatism.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2020, 03:37:29 PM »
Okay, I found the relevant place in the video. It's a little after the 23-minute mark. The quote is as follows:
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This is madness. So the dogmatic sedevacantists are not traditional Catholics because they say people have to agree with them or they are not Catholic. But Fr. Jenkins does not consider them to be Catholic because they in turn do not agree with his position of sedevacantism being an opinion.
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I'm not saying I'm a dogmatic sedevacantist, as I probably hold to the "opinion" version of sedevacantism the way he does. So before someone condemns me of doing what I accuse Fr. Jenkins of doing, which is what he in turn accuses the dogmatic sedes of doing, I hasten to say that I do not therefore consider Fr. Jenkins to be not a traditional Catholic. My point is just that his logic is an absurdity and that hoists himself on his own petard.
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Being too strong against dogmatism inevitably leads to ... more dogmatism.
Sedeism is an opinion, dogmatic sede's raise this opinion to the status of dogma, so the reason why he does not consider them to be Catholic is because Catholics do not do that. 

Offline Yeti

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Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2020, 03:46:31 PM »
Sedeism is an opinion, dogmatic sede's raise this opinion to the status of dogma, so the reason why he does not consider them to be Catholic is because Catholics do not do that.
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The problem here is that Fr. Jenkins is raising his opinion to the status of dogma, inasmuch as he says that people who go against his analysis (dogmatic sedes) are not traditional Catholics. It would be reasonable to say he disagrees with them or that they are wrong, but by saying they are not traditional Catholics he is usurping authority he himself does not have.

Re: Fr. Jenkins articulates Moderate (aka Opinionist) Sedevacantism
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2020, 03:52:27 PM »
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The problem here is that Fr. Jenkins is raising his opinion to the status of dogma, inasmuch as he says that people who go against his analysis (dogmatic sedes) are not traditional Catholics. It would be reasonable to say he disagrees with them or that they are wrong, but by saying they are not traditional Catholics he is usurping authority he himself does not have.
And as I implied up thread, he has no issue usurping authority when judging the Thuc consecrations as invalid.  As a result of this, he refuses communion to anyone associated with/sympathetic to the Thuc-line clergy.  I call that hypocrisy.