Where does he stand on sedevacantism?
Does he belong to an order or community of some sort?
Under what if any bishop does he function?
Does he reject the NO?
Thanks. I will look at the website.
Quote from: SigismundWhere does he stand on sedevacantism?
Does he belong to an order or community of some sort?
Under what if any bishop does he function?
Does he reject the NO?
Thanks. I will look at the website.
http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/father2.asp
http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/father.asp
He rejects the NO mass yes.
He rejects Sedevacantism.
He is loosely allied with the SSPX.
He is independant of an order, he is the founder of the Fatimacrusader.
I have a serious problem with Fr. Gruner with the way he capitalizes She when referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Capitalizing pronouns is reserved for God. Check even secular English books & the dictionary on this! This makes her a goddess & gives non-Catholics fuel against us. He's wrong on this but won't stop.
Also, Fatima is not a doctrine of the church & you are free to believe or disbelieve it. My impression is that he practically makes it a doctrine & this too is wrong. Yes, it's Biblically correct that Mary with crush the serpent's head but he seems obsessed with the consecration of Russia. Again, this makes it difficult to talk to non-Catholics.
Getting people to heaven & converting non-Catholics should be every person's goal in this life & he makes it a bit difficult.
Also, Fatima is not a doctrine of the church & you are free to believe or disbelieve it. My impression is that he practically makes it a doctrine & this too is wrong. Yes, it's Biblically correct that Mary with crush the serpent's head but he seems obsessed with the consecration of Russia. Again, this makes it difficult to talk to non-Catholics.
Thorn is right. It is a private revelation, and No Catholic can be required as a matter of faith to believe in a private revelation.
However, the evidence for this one is so overwhelming that I think it is impudent in the extreme not to believe in it. It isn't heresy, though.
Thorn, you are embarrassing yourself. You are seriously suggesting that the Miracle of the sun may have been the work of the devil? What nonsense.
I am only seriously telling (not suggesting) everyone that the devil has been given power to perform great miracles. If Fatima is a stumbling block for non-Catholics to enter the church, then it must be dealt with straightforward like.
If Fatima is a stumbling block for non-Catholics to enter the church, then it must be dealt with straightforward like.
My question here would be: I thought Our Lady crushed the head of the Evil One when she agreed and gave birth to Jesus Christ. Am I wrong about that? I ask because it seems reading here, some think this prophesy is coming in the future.
Yes, I also believe in the age of Mary, I imagine that Mary will have a large part in the prophesy, "one fold and one Shepherd", to me that means someday the world will be saved by the rosary, and scapular, and no false churches or beliefs will exist.
Quote from: SpiritusSanctusThorn, you are embarrassing yourself. You are seriously suggesting that the Miracle of the sun may have been the work of the devil? What nonsense.
Okay. I agree with you there.
Thank you Neil for attempting to answer my question, you gave me a lot to think about!
Quote from: MyrnaMThank you Neil for attempting to answer my question, you gave me a lot to think about!
You're welcome. BTW if you go to a priest and ask this kind of thing, be sure it's a traditional priest, like SSPX or independent or CMRI or the like. Because if you ask a local Novus Ordo priest, he will have had training indistinguishable from Protestants in his seminary and guidance from his bishop. These are times very dangerous to the Faith of Catholics! False "ecuмenism" is the excuse for those who ought to know and teach the truth, to instead roll over and adopt the doctrines of heretics, just so we can all "get along" with each other.
Non-Catholics have a problem with how some Catholics treat Mary and sometimes with good reason. We must be extremely careful in how we present the facts of Catholicism to them and not add nor subtract anything. Since Fatima is not an article of Faith, we must tell them that, if they ask & allow them to either believe or not. You may give your opinion & how you feel, but must be careful to say that it is just your opinion. Our goal is to bring them into the church and utimately to heaven where all our questions will be answered.
Neil, my priests for the last almost 40 years are exclusively C.M.R.I.
I thought Our Lady crushed the head of the Evil One when she agreed and gave birth to Jesus Christ. Am I wrong about that? I ask because it seems reading here, some think [the fulfillment of] this prophesy is coming in the future.
Quote from: ThornNon-Catholics have a problem with how some Catholics treat Mary and sometimes with good reason. We must be extremely careful in how we present the facts of Catholicism to them and not add nor subtract anything. Since Fatima is not an article of Faith, we must tell them that, if they ask & allow them to either believe or not. You may give your opinion & how you feel, but must be careful to say that it is just your opinion. Our goal is to bring them into the church and utimately to heaven where all our questions will be answered.
How's 40+ years of post conciliar lunacy, the church's openness to the world, and the church downplaying Mary's role with the rosary being a victim of the council. It changed the mass to accommodate non-catholics. And what did that achieve? I think the church bent over backwards for non-catholics and lost millions of her own in the process.
Think of the miraculous image of Guadalupe, of OUR LADY, and how it transformed the faith of 9 million indians in 9 years. And you're afraid that we grant too much attention to Our Lady? No, I don't think there is enough.
Neil, I never meant to give you or anyone the impression that I got the idea about crushing the head from a C.M.R.I. priest, sometime we form our own ideas, and assume we are right. I merely wanted you to know that I am Traditional.
I said, you gave me another insight on this, and I will ask Father when I get a chance, if there is a doctrine about "when" Our Lady will crush the head of the devil.
My impression was that Our Lady would not crush the head of the devil until the end of the world, though I could be wrong.
This was explained to me: That she and he go together. He is in Her and they both crush the serpent's head.
As Rev. Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Langrange, O.P., writes regarding this mystery of the Visitation, “Mary, who was to give birth to the Savior, brought grace to Elizabeth and to the unborn precursor. Mary herself had been redeemed in an absolutely exceptional manner by the future merits of her Son and she concurred in the redemption of us all. From the moment of her immaculate conception she had been redeemed by a sovereign redemption, being preserved from original sin instead of being healed of it. It was fitting that a perfect Redeemer should accomplish a sovereign and preservative redemption in at least one soul, and in that soul more closely associated with Him than any other in the work of man’s salvation. Truly, what Jesus merited for us in justice, Mary has merited for us with Him and in Him and by Him through the merit of congruity. In this sense it has pleased our Lord that no one should be saved except in consideration of the merits of His Mother. In the same sense it has pleased Him to sanctify the precursor by Mary’s words” (The Love of God and the Cross of Jesus, “The Mysteries of the Rosary”).
"When I was in the chapel with Our Lord part of the night of May 29-30, 1930 (we know that it was her habit to make a holy hour from eleven in the evening to midnight, especially on Thursday evenings, according to the requests of the Sacred Heart at Paray-le-Monial), and I spoke to Our Lord about questions four and five, I suddenly felt myself more intimately possessed by the Divine Presence and, if I am not mistaken29a, this is what was revealed to me:Source (http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr49/cr49d.asp#b)
"My daughter, the reason is simple. There are five types of offenses and blasphemies committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary:
1. Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception.
2. Blasphemies against Her Perpetual Virginity.
3. Blasphemies against Her Divine Maternity, in refusing at the same time to
recognize Her as the Mother of men.
4. The blasphemies of those who publicly seek to sow in the hearts of children
indifference or scorn, or even hatred of this Immaculate Mother.
5. The offenses of those who outrage Her directly in Her holy images.
"Here, My daughter, is the reason why the Immaculate Heart of Mary inspired Me to ask for this little act of Reparation ..."30
29a. As in the writings of Saint Margaret Mary, it would be an error to see the expression of a real uncertainty or doubt in this restrictive formula. It is simply a formula of humility and obedience through which the seer defers in advance to her director’s judgement.
30. See The Whole Truth About Fatima, Volume II, Appendix III. Also see Appendix I of this booklet.
The Devotion of Reparation:
a secret of mercy for sinners
After enumerating the five blasphemies which gravely offend His Most Holy Mother, Our Lord gave Sister Lucy the decisive explanation which allows us to penetrate into the secret of Her Immaculate Heart, which overflows with mercy for all sinners, even those who scorn and outrage Her:
"See, My daughter, the motive for which the Immaculate Heart of Mary inspired Me to ask for this little Reparation, and in consideration of it, to move My mercy to pardon souls who have had the misfortune of offending Her. As for you, always seek by your prayers and sacrifices to move My mercy to pity for these poor souls."34
"The sin against the Holy Spirit." Here we have one of the principal themes of the Message of Fatima: since God has decided to manifest more and more His great design of love, which is to grant all graces to men through the mediation of the Immaculate Virgin, it seems that their refusal to submit with docility to what God wills is the fault which most gravely wounds His Heart, and for which He no longer finds in Himself any inclination to pardon. This sin seems unforgivable, because for Our Savior there is no crime more unpardonable than to despise His Most Holy Mother, and "to outrage Her Immaculate Heart, which is the Sanctuary of the Holy Spirit. This is committing ‘the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will not be forgiven in this world or in the next’."35
In 1929, in the apparition of Tuy which is the final fulfillment of Fatima, Our Lady will conclude the extraordinary manifestation of the Holy Trinity with these striking words: "So many are the souls which the justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me that I come to ask for Reparation. Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray." These words are so strong that several translators took the liberty of diluting their meaning.36
34. Docuмentos, page 409.
35. Sister Lucy herself suggests this comparison with Mt.12: 31-32 in her conversation with Father Fuentes. See Volume III, page 503.
36. Dom Jean-Nesmy, for example, gives this inexact translation: "So many are the sins which the justice of God condemns for being sins committed against Me ..." (Lucie raconte, page 208; La Verité de Fatima, page 221; cf. also Father Alonso’s translation which appeared in Fatima et le Coeur Immaculé de Marie, page 42) No! the original text indeed says: "Sâo tantas as almas (souls) que a Justiça de Deus condena par pecados contra Mim cometidos ..." Docuмentos, page 465. Thus, without any doubt Our Lady refers to the numerous souls who are damned, not the sins which God reproves.
Marie - I think you'd have to do a lot of explaining to state that God Himself is subject to Mary. True, Christ performed His first miracle at her behest & I believe that she is staying the hand of God regarding our chastisement here.
Marie, I could be wrong, because I am not a theologian, but I think those words are meant in the sense that Mary and God are so united, she is and always will be united to His Will. Therefore He is to her. They can not be separated in that sense.
Thanks Marie. Very interesting! I must admit I haven't read the Treatise yet, but I will, to get the context.
I have a serious problem with Fr. Gruner with the way he capitalizes She when referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Capitalizing pronouns is reserved for God.
Now that I have enough time, let me respond to all the criticism:
Matthew - Yes, we are free to believe or disbelieve. I've been called a few names but never 'atheist unbeliever'! Besides, show me where I said that I disbelieved! I merely said that because it's not a doctrine or article of faith we are free to believe or disbelieve. Perhaps we need to dust off our college Logic 101 book & review. Disbelief or even simple neutrality regarding Fatima does NOT equate to lack of love & respect for the Blessed Mother.
Neil - According to dictionaries & English books, capitalizing pronouns is reserved for diety, so royalty doesn't count. Again - stating this fact doesn't equate to losing our Catholic sense. As for me, I too will defend to the death the honor of our Lady & I don't have to use She to do so. Read Matt 12, 47-50 & Mark 3, 34-35 where someone says to Christ that His mother & brethren were outside seeking Him. Christ answers that whoever shall do the will of my Father in heaven, he is my brother, sister & mother. Also in Luke 11, 27-28 when someone says blessed is the womb that bore Thee & Christ answers, yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God & keep it. It sounds cold, doesn't it? It's almost like Christ is putting Mary in her place. I take it (perhaps you do not), that He foresaw that man in the future might try to make Mary into a goddess & He emphasized that she did God's will perfectly & thus was Blessed. Every little thing He said & did was significant for something & teaching us. So no, I don't have to adjust my attitude, thank you. Yes, one day this whole mess will be sorted out. Maybe I should leave well enough alone but I don't regard the shepherd children at Fatima as 'holy prophets'. They didn't prophesy - they merely reported what they had seen & heard.
Neil, again - yes, Fatima is a private revelation. Only the children saw the Blessed Mother. Kindly show where in Sacred Scripture is the 3rd type of public prophetic revelation. The early Christians knew of & believed in the Immaculate Conception & Assumption & many years later the pope defined it so your explanation is a bit jumbled & hard to understand.
Quote from: ThornThanks Marie. Very interesting! I must admit I haven't read the Treatise yet, but I will, to get the context.
You're welcome, [Thorn]. I do hope you'll take the time to read and study Saint de Montfort's "True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin". Over the years I've found it to be a life-line of sorts, and a truer consolation I've yet to find. If you do read it, you may wish to consecrate yourself to the Blessed Mother, as the above mentioned book serves as a companion to "Preparation for Total Consecration according to Saint Louis Marie de Montfort".
Uploaded by louismontfort on May 5, 2011
Considered the greatest single book on Mary ever written, this classic shows the way to Jesus through Mary. It sums up the entire Christian life and provides the key both to sanctity and to salvation. Beloved by countless souls; makes lasting devotees. St. Louis De Montfort prophesied that True Devotion to Mary would be the way of life of the great Saints of the latter times. This devotion is destined to change the world!