Author Topic: Fr. Gruner (Read 5488 times)

MyrnaM · « **Reply #45 on:** June 01, 2012, 07:32:54 PM »

Marie, I could be wrong, because I am not a theologian, but I think those words are meant in the sense that Mary and God are so united, she is and always will be united to His Will. Therefore He is to her. They can not be separated in that sense.

Thorn · « **Reply #46 on:** June 01, 2012, 07:36:41 PM »

Thanks Marie. Very interesting! I must admit I haven't read the Treatise yet, but I will, to get the context.

Marie · « **Reply #47 on:** June 01, 2012, 07:54:44 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Marie, I could be wrong, because I am not a theologian, but I think those words are meant in the sense that Mary and God are so united, she is and always will be united to His Will. Therefore He is to her. They can not be separated in that sense.

Thank you Myrna, and yes, you many have a better take on it than meself : ) I also am not a theologian, far from! The part I quoted comes from Saint Louis de Montfort teaching us on "We belong to Jesus and Mary as their slaves."
It bears pointing out, it is not St. de Montfort who makes the statement, but rather he is stating what "we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure."

The entire section "76 reads:

76. Moreover, if, as I have said, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen and Sovereign of heaven and earth, does she not then have as many subjects and slaves as there are creatures? "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power", so we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure. Is it not reasonable to find that among so many slaves there should be some slaves of love, who freely choose Mary as their Queen? Should men and demons have willing slaves, and Mary have none? A king makes it a point of honour that the queen, his consort, should have her own slaves, over whom she has right of life and death, for honour and power given to the queen is honour and power given to the king. Could we possibly believe that Jesus, the best of all sons, who shared his power with his Blessed Mother, would resent her having her own slaves? Has he less esteem and love for his Mother than Ahasuerus had for Esther, or Solomon for Bathsheba? Who could say or even think such a thing?

Marie · « **Reply #48 on:** June 01, 2012, 08:03:36 PM »

Quote from: Thorn

Thanks Marie. Very interesting! I must admit I haven't read the Treatise yet, but I will, to get the context.

You're welcome, Thorne. I do hope you'll take the time to read and study Saint de Montfort's "True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin". Over the years I've found it to be a life-line of sorts, and a truer consolation I've yet to find. If you do read it, you may wish to consecrate yourself to the Blessed Mother, as the above mentioned book serves as a companion to "Preparation for Total Consecration according to Saint Louis Marie de Montfort".

Thorn · « **Reply #49 on:** June 01, 2012, 09:42:57 PM »

I can understand how Mary is so united to God because she always did His will no matter what, while on this earth. Walking the way of the cross & standing by the cross must have been excruciating to her as a mother. And she did it all with such grace & dignity & quietness.
I was once a Carmelite but since have slipped in devotion. However, I did recognize the NO early on, so she must have had me still under her wing so to speak.

Nadir · « **Reply #50 on:** June 01, 2012, 10:55:38 PM »

Quote from: Thorn

I have a serious problem with Fr. Gruner with the way he capitalizes She when referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Capitalizing pronouns is reserved for God.

What about capitalising the first person, i? :idea:

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #51 on:** June 02, 2012, 05:29:49 AM »

Quote from: Thorn

Now that I have enough time, let me respond to all the criticism:

Matthew - Yes, we are free to believe or disbelieve. I've been called a few names but never 'atheist unbeliever'! Besides, show me where I said that I disbelieved! I merely said that because it's not a doctrine or article of faith we are free to believe or disbelieve. Perhaps we need to dust off our college Logic 101 book & review. Disbelief or even simple neutrality regarding Fatima does NOT equate to lack of love & respect for the Blessed Mother.

Neil - According to dictionaries & English books, capitalizing pronouns is reserved for diety, so royalty doesn't count. Again - stating this fact doesn't equate to losing our Catholic sense. As for me, I too will defend to the death the honor of our Lady & I don't have to use She to do so. Read Matt 12, 47-50 & Mark 3, 34-35 where someone says to Christ that His mother & brethren were outside seeking Him. Christ answers that whoever shall do the will of my Father in heaven, he is my brother, sister & mother. Also in Luke 11, 27-28 when someone says blessed is the womb that bore Thee & Christ answers, yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God & keep it. It sounds cold, doesn't it? It's almost like Christ is putting Mary in her place. I take it (perhaps you do not), that He foresaw that man in the future might try to make Mary into a goddess & He emphasized that she did God's will perfectly & thus was Blessed. Every little thing He said & did was significant for something & teaching us. So no, I don't have to adjust my attitude, thank you. Yes, one day this whole mess will be sorted out. Maybe I should leave well enough alone but I don't regard the shepherd children at Fatima as 'holy prophets'. They didn't prophesy - they merely reported what they had seen & heard.
Neil, again - yes, Fatima is a private revelation. Only the children saw the Blessed Mother. Kindly show where in Sacred Scripture is the 3rd type of public prophetic revelation. The early Christians knew of & believed in the Immaculate Conception & Assumption & many years later the pope defined it so your explanation is a bit jumbled & hard to understand.

Please keep in mind that when you read "dictionaries and English books," you are most LIKELY reading the words penned by Freemasons, so you ought to be "wise as serpent" when dealing with serpents. One of the principle goals of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ has been to uproot the very notion of Kingship and Catholic royalty in the minds and hearts of the faithful. Very high priority, and they've been extremely successful, so far.

I could refute you point by point, but sometimes debate isn't fruitful.

You would be far better off to follow the advice of Marie, below.
A lot of Catholics don't read Scripture much, and when challenged, they pay too much attention to what Protestants say about certain passages.

Try reading True Devotion by St. Louis-Marie, and give it a chance. He was most decidedly NOT a mason!

It's one of the great Catholic works. IMHO he ought to be a Doctor of the Church. But that's not going to happen until after the Collegial Consecration and the conversion of Russia. You'll likely find you have a new desire to study the Gospels.

We should let prayer and Our Lord's words work in our souls, instead of arguing.

Quote from: Marie

Quote from: Thorn
Thanks Marie. Very interesting! I must admit I haven't read the Treatise yet, but I will, to get the context.

You're welcome, [Thorn]. I do hope you'll take the time to read and study Saint de Montfort's "True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin". Over the years I've found it to be a life-line of sorts, and a truer consolation I've yet to find. If you do read it, you may wish to consecrate yourself to the Blessed Mother, as the above mentioned book serves as a companion to "Preparation for Total Consecration according to Saint Louis Marie de Montfort".

It seems to me that any Catholic who has not made the Consecration according to the Montfort method is going to have any number of difficulties understanding the principle of the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, especially in the context of the Message of Fatima. Enough said.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #52 on:** June 02, 2012, 06:20:41 AM »

I did a quick check and found this beautiful video to watch on YouTube:

It's basically a reading of the first part of True Devotion, with Catholic artwork
scrolling by. The lady reading has excellent diction and dramatic expression. She
evokes remarkable comprehension. A joy to hear and see!

Quote

Uploaded by louismontfort on May 5, 2011

Considered the greatest single book on Mary ever written, this classic shows the way to Jesus through Mary. It sums up the entire Christian life and provides the key both to sanctity and to salvation. Beloved by countless souls; makes lasting devotees. St. Louis De Montfort prophesied that True Devotion to Mary would be the way of life of the great Saints of the latter times. This devotion is destined to change the world!

De Maria numquam satis! Ad Iesum per Mariam

St. Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort wrote the Treatise on True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin at the beginning of the 1700s, but the manuscript remained practically unknown for more than a century. When, almost by chance, it was at last discovered in 1842 and published in 1843, the work was an instant success, proving extraordinarily effective in spreading the “true devotion” to the Most Holy Virgin.

It came to light eventually that St. Louis-Marie had known by private revelation that his book would be hidden from the world for a long time, and then would become widely known in the age when it would be most needed. Therefore, its erstwhile seclusion was a fulfillment of that foreknowledge the Saint had experienced.

As I recall hearing, the original, handwritten pages were stored in a travel trunk and stashed in someone's storage area or attic, then a century later, they were found by people who had not been alive at the time of the writing or first packing away. It is a lot like the story of the music of Johann Sebastian Bach, which was mostly forgotten for many years until rediscovered later. And the story of Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres, of Our Lady of Good Success, whose life and teachings were stored away and forgotten for over 3 centuries, only to be found and made known at the end of the 20th century, just as it had been foretold by Our Lady.