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Offline Sigismund

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Fr. Gruner
« on: May 27, 2012, 01:03:21 PM »
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  • Can anyone suggest a good source of information about him?  Thanks.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline LordPhan

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #1 on: May 27, 2012, 01:25:27 PM »
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  • What would you like to know about him? I have met him quite a few times, I last had a long conversation with him on St. Patrick's Day at a party/auction.

    http://www.fatimacrusader.com/


    Offline Sigismund

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #2 on: May 27, 2012, 04:45:51 PM »
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  • Where does he stand on sedevacantism?

    Does he belong to an order or community of some sort?

    Under what if any bishop does he function?

    Does he reject the NO?

    Thanks.  I will look at the website.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline LordPhan

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #3 on: May 27, 2012, 05:04:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    Where does he stand on sedevacantism?

    Does he belong to an order or community of some sort?

    Under what if any bishop does he function?

    Does he reject the NO?

    Thanks.  I will look at the website.


    http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/father2.asp

    http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/father.asp

    He rejects the NO mass yes.

    He rejects Sedevacantism.

    He is loosely allied with the SSPX.

    He is independant of an order, he is the founder of the Fatimacrusader.


    Offline Thorn

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #4 on: May 27, 2012, 07:12:34 PM »
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  • I have a serious problem with Fr. Gruner with the way he capitalizes She when referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary.  Capitalizing pronouns is reserved for God.  Check even secular English books & the dictionary on this!  This makes her a goddess  & gives non-Catholics fuel against us.  He's wrong on this but won't stop.  

    Also, Fatima is not a doctrine of the church & you are free to believe or disbelieve it.  My impression is that he practically makes it a doctrine & this too is wrong. Yes, it's Biblically correct that Mary with crush the serpent's head but he seems obsessed with the consecration of Russia.  Again, this makes it difficult to talk to non-Catholics.

    Getting people to heaven & converting non-Catholics should be every person's goal in this life & he makes it a bit difficult.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14


    Offline Sigismund

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #5 on: May 27, 2012, 09:22:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    Quote from: Sigismund
    Where does he stand on sedevacantism?

    Does he belong to an order or community of some sort?

    Under what if any bishop does he function?

    Does he reject the NO?

    Thanks.  I will look at the website.


    http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/father2.asp

    http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/father.asp

    He rejects the NO mass yes.

    He rejects Sedevacantism.

    He is loosely allied with the SSPX.

    He is independant of an order, he is the founder of the Fatimacrusader.



    Thanks.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Matthew

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #6 on: May 27, 2012, 09:51:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thorn
    I have a serious problem with Fr. Gruner with the way he capitalizes She when referring to the Blessed Virgin Mary.  Capitalizing pronouns is reserved for God.  Check even secular English books & the dictionary on this!  This makes her a goddess  & gives non-Catholics fuel against us.  He's wrong on this but won't stop.  

    Also, Fatima is not a doctrine of the church & you are free to believe or disbelieve it.  My impression is that he practically makes it a doctrine & this too is wrong. Yes, it's Biblically correct that Mary with crush the serpent's head but he seems obsessed with the consecration of Russia.  Again, this makes it difficult to talk to non-Catholics.

    Getting people to heaven & converting non-Catholics should be every person's goal in this life & he makes it a bit difficult.


    You can't quite say you're "free to believe or disbelieve" a mega-apparition like Fatima.  It would be temerity of the first order.

    We have secular newspaper articles talking about the Miracle of the Sun -- what are we, atheist unbelievers now? How can you "not believe" in Fatima?

    And if the Mother of God asks for Russia to be consecrated to her Immaculate Heart, then that is the ONLY WAY we're going to escape a hellish dystopian world dicatorship (think: China, only worldwide. Forced abortions, forced sterilizations, imprisonment for unjust causes, controlling food for each person, total surveillance)

    I agree with you about the "She" thing.

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #7 on: May 27, 2012, 10:39:20 PM »
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  • Regarding the "She thing," how is it suddenly making a woman a "goddess" by capitalizing the S in her pronoun? It seems to me that this is an example of how we have entirely lost the Catholic sense of royalty. I know there aren't many places to go in the world anymore where there is a real King and Queen, but we shouldn't have to go very far back in history to see that when Kings and Queens were the norm, whenever pronouns were used for them, they were capitalized.

    Fr. Gruner is simply carrying that ancient tradition forward,
    for there is no other woman in all of human history that is more of a Queen
    than the Queen of Angels, Queen of Patriarchs, Queen of Prophets,
    Queen of Apostles, Queen of Martyrs, Queen of Confessors, Queen of Virgins,
    Queen of all Saints, Queen conceived without original sin, Queen assumed into heaven,
    Queen of the most holy Rosary and Queen of Peace!

    Perhaps if you have a "problem" with referring to Her with capital letters,
    you might want to consider adjusting your attitude. You can do that.........

    As for me, I shall defend the honor of my Lady.  :dwarf:
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    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #8 on: May 27, 2012, 11:27:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thorn
    Also, Fatima is not a doctrine of the church & you are free to believe or disbelieve it. My impression is that he practically makes it a doctrine & this too is wrong. Yes, it's Biblically correct that Mary with crush the serpent's head but he seems obsessed with the consecration of Russia. Again, this makes it difficult to talk to non-Catholics.


    No, you're not "free to believe or disbelieve it". It is not only an apparition approved by the Church, but is without a doubt the greatest Marian Apparition in the history of the world.

    As for the Consecration of Russia, it is very important because once it is done, there will be world peace.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #9 on: May 27, 2012, 11:56:24 PM »
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  • It's rather obvious that something is very wrong with the way the true Message of Fatima has been bowdlerized by the clerics who should be protecting it, operating from the highest offices in the Church.

    Priests who have been devoted to the truth have been suppressed and those who are wild with conjecture and falsehood have been praised, for the past 95 years, already.

    There has never been a movement so evident as the following of Our Lady of Fatima, so popular has She been with everyday Catholics who fill streets with Her processions and volunteer their efforts to Her festivals, especially in Portugal itself.

    The critics and detractors of Fatima, some of whom have pranced about as supporters, have one by one died off or abandoned the work. But Father Gruner has kept up his dedication with a very admirable resolve. He has gathered a formidable cooperation of educated and honest assistants and corroborators in this great work, and has published over 100 issues of Fatima Crusader, which has always been free for the asking -- unlike the vast majority of the others' publications, which have carried a price tag for each item, even back issues.

    One day all this mess will be sorted out, and then we will know what a deceptive maelstrom of unknowing we have been subject to for nearly a century now. The Fatima apparitions will be acknowledged as the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy, and the poor shepherd children will be hailed as the holy prophets that they were.

    In the meantime, we had best pay attention to the material provided by this reliable source, for our decision to ignore it would one day be counted against us if that's what we choose to do. It's a matter of what we decide to do. It is an act of will.
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    Offline Thorn

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #10 on: May 28, 2012, 12:17:27 AM »
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  • With all due respect- Fatima is a private apparition & you can be a good Catholic & believe in it or not.  Only the children saw the Blessed Mother.  As for the miracle of the sun - the devil is capable of miracles.  I'm not in any way, shape or form saying that I believe that the devil was involved here, all I'm saying is that you are free to believe or disbelieve.
    As for the She thing, I won't get into any discussion on it as you are free to believe what you will.

     We have the deposit of faith pure & entire already.  Nothing can or need be added or subtracted.   Yes, some day the Blessed Mother will crush the serpent's head.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #11 on: May 28, 2012, 12:56:40 AM »
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  • But Fatima was not merely a private revelation. That's the error here.

    How could a public miracle, predicted in advance by 6 months, and given from God (approved by the Church as such) for the purpose of helping the faith of believers (and faith is the most precious thing we have in this life) be a "private" matter?

    Certainly the message as given to the shepherd children was private, inasmuch as it was "secret," but that was not to remain the case. The secrecy was for a temporary purpose, such that the Miracle of the Sun would be effective for what it was intended by God Himself. And don't forget, the Miracle of the Sun, as great as it was, and beyond imagination -- far and away the most astounding public miracle in the history of the world -- would have been even GREATER (but we cannot imagine how so) if the three children had not been kidnapped on August 13th, 1917.

    No, it was much more than private, because it was given to those who came at the time, all of whom are most likely deceased now. They came from far and wide, most of them from Portugal, and they numbered between 70,000 and 100,000 people. This was not a "private" event, any way you try to slice it. And the story lives on, and the miracles continue, therefore it is given to all men worldwide for all time to come, and that means it is not "private." Why is this so difficult to understand?

    There is a third classification of revelation, in between Apostolic revelation (which was given during the lifetime of the Apostles and applies to everyone) and private revelation (which is given to an individual and is only applicable for the personal spiritual life of that person). The third type is public prophetic revelation, and it is described in Sacred Scripture itself.

    The Miracle of the Sun was a public event, predicted in advance by the prophesy of Our Lady, and confirmed the revelation given to the shepherd children as a "secret" to be divulged at a later time. Therefore, the Message of Fatima belongs to this third category, public prophetic revelation.

    As such, it is not strictly binding as Apostolic revelation is binding on all the faithful, however, it is not only applicable to the seers themselves, as if it were private revelation. That is, we are not absolutely required to believe it with full assent of mind and will, however, we would be remiss to entirely dismiss it as so many pitiable unfortunates are wont to do. However, when the time comes, and it would become defined as a dogma of the faith, at that time we would cease to be Catholic by denying it, just as we would by denying the Immaculate Conception or the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary body and soul into heaven. There was a time, not that long ago, when we could debate those things, but no more. They have been defined as dogmas of the Faith for all human creatures to believe if they are to be saved. I'm not saying that it ever will be defined, but merely giving that as a point of reference.

    The coronation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Queen of Angels and of men has not been defined either. But it is the last decade of the Rosary, just as the Assumption is the penultimate decade. The Assumption and the Coronation were both prayed by millions of Catholics for many centuries before the Assumption was defined on November 1st, 1950 by Pope Pius XII. Can we even pause to suppose that definition had nothing to do with the Fatima apparitions????

    I should hope not!
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    Offline Thorn

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #12 on: May 28, 2012, 01:19:45 AM »
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  • Fatima is not an article of faith & Apostolic Revelation ended with St. John so we are under no obligation to believe in it.  The Church, however, has approved it so any Catholic is free to believe in it as there's nothing contrary to faith in the message.

    I do hope that Fatima won't be used as yet another thing to cause Catholics to fight over with other Catholics.  I will therefore respect anyone who wants to believe, as much as I will respect anyone who does not believe in it.  
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline Sigismund

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #13 on: May 28, 2012, 09:12:03 AM »
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  • Thorn is right.  It is a private revelation, and No Catholic can be required as a matter of faith to believe in a private revelation.

    However, the evidence for this one is so overwhelming that I think it is impudent in the extreme not to believe in it.  It isn't heresy, though.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Fr. Gruner
    « Reply #14 on: May 28, 2012, 09:22:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    Thorn is right.  It is a private revelation, and No Catholic can be required as a matter of faith to believe in a private revelation.

    However, the evidence for this one is so overwhelming that I think it is impudent in the extreme not to believe in it.  It isn't heresy, though.


    I have to agree with Sigismund and Thorn on this point, although I do believe in Fatima and have no doubt about it.

    My question here would be:   I thought Our Lady crushed the head of the Evil One when she agreed and gave birth to Jesus Christ.  Am I wrong about that?  I ask because it seems  reading here, some think this prophesy is coming in the future.  Yes, I also believe in the age of Mary, I imagine that Mary will have a large part in the prophesy, "one fold and one Shepherd", to me that means someday the world will be saved by the rosary, and scapular, and no false churches or beliefs will exist.  

     

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