Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski  (Read 9711 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Meg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6173
  • Reputation: +3147/-2941
  • Gender: Female
Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2018, 12:13:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Consider the possibility, that is if you like most Traditionalists believe, the Church was infiltrated with Masons who had a very powerful AGENDA to fulfill.  He, Francis and his predecessors were never elected.
    Read this CAREFULLY!
     

    Your above post doesn't really have anything to do with what I wrote (the main subject), though you have attempted to make it seem as if it does.

    In his book, Fr. Chazal says that sedevacantists quite often just change the subject when pressed. I, too, have seen quite often that this is the case.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #31 on: July 03, 2018, 12:52:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Someday very soon a very good priest as Fr. Chazal will see the truth of the term, sedevacantism.

    Your the one who mentioned the words "The pope once elected."  So sad you ignore any comment about what the Church says concerning Simony not only refers to money but benefit; in this case benefit to the Freemasons, Modernists, Communism, Illuminati.

    God bless you!

    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #32 on: July 03, 2018, 01:02:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Someday very soon a very good priest as Fr. Chazal will see the truth of the term, sedevacantism.

    Your the one who mentioned the words "The pope once elected."  So sad you ignore any comment about what the Church says concerning Simony not only refers to money but benefit; in this case benefit to the Freemasons, Modernists, Communism, Illuminati.

    God bless you!

    You didn't address the subject at all, regarding what I said about "The pope once elected."

    I wrote:

    "The Pope, once elected, does not become Divine upon his election and is therefore incapable of sin or error."

    I was obviously addressing the issue of sedevacantists believing that popes are Divine after they are elected, and therefore cannot fall into sin or error. You didn't address this at all.

    You addressed as to whether or not they were even elected in the first place. That's not the subject of what I said. You changed the subject. I wasn't necessarily referring to conciliar popes at all, but I was referring to the Papacy in general. I never mentioned any specific pope. You seem to believe that ANY pope is supposed to be Divine, and therefore cannot err, including those pre-Vatican ll.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #33 on: July 03, 2018, 01:50:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • I didn't take you seriously, perhaps you might show me somewhere on the Internet where it alludes to the sedevacantism position in believing the Pope once elected is Divine.  You even capitalize the word Divine?

    As a matter of fact, at least C.M.R.I. has a very large library with thousands of books prior to Vatican II, these books were left there when they took possession of the property.  Many are centuries old and tell the issues of bad popes with personal sins, antipopes.  Also is mentioned the solutions of the many antipopes.  We don't use new books published recently that double speak the teachings of the Church, nor books that exaggerate doctrine or stretch it so far it becomes heresy.   

    The difference these sins were personal, not taught as a public way of life for the faithful to follow.  

    Sedevacantism is only a word that describes what you yourself believe, the Chair of Peter empty, but the Chair is still there, the Papacy the Office is waiting for the resurrection of the Church.  

    Sedevacantism does not teach even the past popes were Divine, nor was the Blessed Mother Divine, you should know that!

    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #34 on: July 03, 2018, 02:07:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • I didn't take you seriously, perhaps you might show me somewhere on the Internet where it alludes to the sedevacantism position in believing the Pope once elected is Divine.  You even capitalize the word Divine?

    As a matter of fact, at least C.M.R.I. has a very large library with thousands of books prior to Vatican II, these books were left there when they took possession of the property.  Many are centuries old and tell the issues of bad popes with personal sins, antipopes.  Also is mentioned the solutions of the many antipopes.  We don't use new books published recently that double speak the teachings of the Church, nor books that exaggerate doctrine or stretch it so far it becomes heresy.  

    The difference these sins were personal, not taught as a public way of life for the faithful to follow.  

    Sedevacantism is only a word that describes what you yourself believe, the Chair of Peter empty, but the Chair is still there, the Papacy the Office is waiting for the resurrection of the Church.  

    Sedevacantism does not teach even the past popes were Divine, nor was the Blessed Mother Divine, you should know that!

    Alright, you do not teach that popes are Divine. Good to know. But you seem to insinuate it, since you believe that they cannot err at all.

    However, they are human. They do not cease to be human after they are elected to the Papacy.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #35 on: July 03, 2018, 04:49:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You are very mistaken Meg, and I realize you are only parroting what you hear from people who parrot from others.  

    Everyone in the world, except Mary the White Lily of the Blessed Trinity, is a sinner!
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #36 on: July 03, 2018, 05:36:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • You are very mistaken Meg, and I realize you are only parroting what you hear from people who parrot from others.  

    Everyone in the world, except Mary the White Lily of the Blessed Trinity, is a sinner!
    Well, that's a problem isn't it? Parroting others. Sedes draw conclusions from what they think the Church is teaching.  Every single quote I've seen from sedes does not say what they think it does.  And it stands to reason, if a Pope appears to be an heretic, and the people think he isn't the Pope, then what?  The entire concept that the Pope ceases to be Pope is ridiculous.  What is to prevent a coup if that were reality? 

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #37 on: July 03, 2018, 06:09:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  •   And it stands to reason, if a Pope appears to be an heretic, and the people think he isn't the Pope, then what?  The entire concept that the Pope ceases to be Pope is ridiculous.  
    Yes, if we had a true pope and the people think he isn't a pope, which many beliefs do believe that way, and yes it is quite ridiculous.  
    What is more ridiculous is when people do believe he is a true pope but crucifix him with their own words, is what they will have to answer for before God.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #38 on: July 03, 2018, 06:56:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Yes, if we had a true pope and the people think he isn't a pope, which many beliefs do believe that way, and yes it is quite ridiculous.  
    What is more ridiculous is when people do believe he is a true pope but crucifix him with their own words, is what they will have to answer for before God.  
    The laity are not judges, but subjects.  We have no business guessing or judging, except to steer clear when there is reason for concern. Like now.  The fact that the laity have the duty to determine who's pope and who's not brings chaos, because propaganda would have the power to unseat a good guy.  It isn't our job.  Our job is to become holy, no matter what kind of authority we endure.  We need to be aware, but submissive.  Saints were martyred by their own bishops.  What then?  Resist the bishops?  The Saints didn't.  Christ, Our Lady and the Saints submitted to death as models of the perfect Catholics.  

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #39 on: July 03, 2018, 08:15:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Disrespect and calling YOUR pope is not my idea of becoming holy, according to the Church and lives of the Saints.   ;)



    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #40 on: July 03, 2018, 11:39:14 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • “…We declare, state and define that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of all human beings that they submit to the Roman Pontiff”
    –POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302  

    The above statement has no qualifications and thus supersedes any and all theories of theologians. Armchair canon lawyers have no authority for emptying the statement by adding to it or taking from it.  The statement is binding as it is written. There are other similar statements like:  "Where PETER is, there is the Church"

    Those who deny there is a pope and thereby remove themselves from his authority are in grave error.  They follow confused men who declare that there is no pope, even though the overwhelming evidence is that there is a pope, in possession of the office, who wears the shoes of Peter, runs the Vatican Bank and addresses the nations as pope in the name of the Catholic Church of nearly 1 billion. Even though sedes claim their decision to deny the pope is made in the name of the "true Church", this is a canard since the true Church teaches that we must be subject to the pope for salvation.  No where does the Church teach that men must be subject to an empty seat that is declared empty by confused laity who believe someone died and made them pope. 


    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #41 on: July 04, 2018, 08:48:50 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Since you know this truth you posted above you may find yourself guilty before God because you are responsible to obey and submit to the pope, the True popes throughout the history of the Church and when you recognize an infiltrator, Freemason, Communist, Modernist, Illuminatist as a True Pope your are not submitting to the past true Popes because these evil men contradict the true popes, you are therefore failing in your allegiance to the papacy.  Furthermore when you recognize that the Church has been infiltrated with the ilk of the above they according to the Church have no power.  In otherwords, we are not expected to submit to someone who is not the pope just because the world says he is.  We as Catholics are called to obey GOD RATHER THAN MAN.  

    The church in the past has been without a pope for many years.  It is the papacy, the office that sedevacantist recognizes during these periods.  

    ************

    Simony can be money, gift, profit or benefit etc.  
    Fifth Lateran Council 1512-17 A.D.

    SESSION 5
    16 February 1513
    [Bull renewing and confirming the Constitution against not committing the evil of simony when electing the Roman pontiff]

    election of the Roman pontiff is made or effected by the person who is elected, or by one or several members of the college of cardinals, giving their votes in a manner that in any way involves simony being committed — by the gift, promise or receipt of money, goods of any sort, castles, offices, benefices, promises or obligations — by the person elected or by one or several other persons, in any manner or form whatsoever, even if the election resulted in a majority of two-thirds or in the unanimous choice of all the cardinals, or even in a spontaneous agreement on the part of all, without a scrutiny being made, then not only is this election or choice itself null, and does not bestow on the person elected or chosen in this fashion any right of either spiritual or temporal administration, but also there can be alleged and presented, against the person elected or chosen in this manner, by any one of the cardinals who has taken part in the election, the charge of simony, as a true and unquestionable heresy, so that the one elected is not regarded by anyone as the Roman pontiff.


    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #42 on: July 04, 2018, 09:04:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Disrespect and calling YOUR pope is not my idea of becoming holy, according to the Church and lives of the Saints.   ;)

    Can you explain what you mean by "disrespect" in your post above? I'm not understanding the context.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline MyrnaM

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6273
    • Reputation: +3628/-347
    • Gender: Female
      • Myforever.blog/blog
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #43 on: July 04, 2018, 10:06:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Sure Meg, I will do my best:  Happenby said this to me: "Our job is to become holy" in her note numbered reply 38 of which I posted back to her in post #39 using the word "disrespect" perhaps I should have used the word "dishonor" instead, although they both mean abuse in my context.


    When one reads the lives of the Saints in their particular circuмstances of facing what they knew was the lawful authority, their example to us was not to disrespect, dishonor said authority by going on a public platform to abuse them when they did not agree with them. 

    It is often said by you and others of your like mind, it is not our place to "judge" yet, by your continual abuse of beastly words describing YOUR Vicar of Christ is not my idea of becoming holy.  It is hypocritical! 


    In short, if you can't say anything nice about the man; a man you really believe he is True Vicar you shouldn't say anything at all because you cause scandal to the world. 


    I hope that clears up the context of my note. 
    Have a wonderful grace-filled 4th of July.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Fr. Chazal response to Mr Chojnowski
    « Reply #44 on: July 04, 2018, 10:38:37 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Since you know this truth you posted above you may find yourself guilty before God because you are responsible to obey and submit to the pope, the True popes throughout the history of the Church and when you recognize an infiltrator, Freemason, Communist, Modernist, Illuminatist as a True Pope your are not submitting to the past true Popes because these evil men contradict the true popes, you are therefore failing in your allegiance to the papacy.  Furthermore when you recognize that the Church has been infiltrated with the ilk of the above they according to the Church have no power.  In otherwords, we are not expected to submit to someone who is not the pope just because the world says he is.  We as Catholics are called to obey GOD RATHER THAN MAN.  

    The church in the past has been without a pope for many years.  It is the papacy, the office that sedevacantist recognizes during these periods.  

    ************

    Simony can be money, gift, profit or benefit etc.  
    Fifth Lateran Council 1512-17 A.D.

    SESSION 5
    16 February 1513
    [Bull renewing and confirming the Constitution against not committing the evil of simony when electing the Roman pontiff]

    election of the Roman pontiff is made or effected by the person who is elected, or by one or several members of the college of cardinals, giving their votes in a manner that in any way involves simony being committed — by the gift, promise or receipt of money, goods of any sort, castles, offices, benefices, promises or obligations — by the person elected or by one or several other persons, in any manner or form whatsoever, even if the election resulted in a majority of two-thirds or in the unanimous choice of all the cardinals, or even in a spontaneous agreement on the part of all, without a scrutiny being made, then not only is this election or choice itself null, and does not bestow on the person elected or chosen in this fashion any right of either spiritual or temporal administration, but also there can be alleged and presented, against the person elected or chosen in this manner, by any one of the cardinals who has taken part in the election, the charge of simony, as a true and unquestionable heresy, so that the one elected is not regarded by anyone as the Roman pontiff.
    Accusations about the pope are likely accurate, but the laity are without the prequisites for judging a circuмstance that affects billions of people in ways we cannot comprehend.  Francis will ultimately bring glory to God after a turn of events that the humble will assist in bringing about by their submission.  Submission by man because the glory is to God. Fair and honest men demand trials before passing a lasting judgement and cutting someone off. In a weird way, Francis is a kind of gift to the Church by waking people up to a crisis already raging.

    In the crisis moment of Jesus' arrest, St. Peter cut off the ear of a soldier. Jesus rebuked Peter and healed the ear. Literally speaking everything here is obvious: Live by the sword, die by the sword.  But there is also the allegorical interpretation.  In allegory, an invisible action is signified or represented by a visible action. Jesus condemned the use of a sword while at the same time, allegorically speaking Jesus tells us that those who "cut off", will themselves be cut off.  Christ shows even in crisis, we must stop cutting off ...and heal.    

    Jesus words are humbling, because wisdom isn't acquired by reaction, but is greatly fascilitated by meditation.  This passage says so much with regard to Francis:

    Matthew 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not.