Just because Peter denied Christ (in the worst way possible) doesn't mean he wasn't Pope.

You should spend less time on "flat earth" material and more time on very basic Catholic teaching.

Peter wasn't the pope at the time he denied Jesus Christ. Although Peter's appointment as pope was in Matthew 16:16-19, he didn't become pope until Pentecost (Acts 2:1-13) after the Founder of the Church, Jesus Christ, ascended into Heaven (Mark 16:19).

The current pope is recognized as pope by the Church and all Catholics.  Those who refuse submission have anathema attached to their nonsense.  Just because Peter denied Christ (in the worst way possible) doesn't mean he wasn't Pope.  I don't belong to a "group" like the sedes.  I am Catholic.  The dichotomy is in your mind, not mine.

There isn't a current True pope to recognize today, at least not anyone that I am aware.   
Your notes have the tone that you are trying to talk your self into thinking one way while your conscience believes, something else. 
 
The current Francis, I agree is recognized as a pope by the world, and is a scandal to those who are seeking Truth.  
You seem to forget the Church can not deceive nor be deceived.   EVER!

There isn't a current True pope to recognize today, at least not anyone that I am aware.  
Your notes have the tone that you are trying to talk your self into thinking one way while your conscience believes, something else.
 
The current Francis, I agree is recognized as a pope by the world, and is a scandal to those who are seeking Truth.  
You seem to forget the Church can not deceive nor be deceived.   EVER!

MyrnaM you said: There isn't a current True pope to recognize today, at least not anyone that I am aware.
So you say.  Who is your authority for this specifically?

The One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church IS authority.  
Authority exists to the Churches, not the Church living for the sake of authority. Authority is a concern for the sheep; read John 21; 15-17. “Feed My sheep.”
This Authority or Power; “Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God.”
We see here how God has given authority to His Church to feed His sheep, as in John 21; 15-17.
What happens in the case of the current “pope” who is not feeding the sheep?

Agreed, the Church is the authority, but 99% of the Church doesn't just suddenly cease simply because prelates lost their faith and disobeyed. That would be the epitome of the gates of hell prevailing. The laity are guilty for this debacle too, but Christ remains with His Church for all who call on Him. The Church doesn't consist exclusively of doctrinal geniuses and lay canon lawyers, but of sinners. This tragedy is not exactly new. Jesus submitted to evil authorities of the Church, (and died for it) and He never sinned in doing so. We are called to imitate Christ in spite the errors of authority, for the sake of those same authorities whose souls are at stake, as well as ourselves.  Rebellion against the authorities of the Church was never the practice of Our Lord and Our Lady.  The only rebellion that should be waged is against the world, the devil and self. We are assured that where sin abounds, grace abounds even more, so these must be the greatest days of grace ever! The pope is a traitor to Christ but Our Lord still feeds His sheep, to a point, IF the sheep patiently submit and practice the Faith. Are there many of those types in the NO?  Or Tradition for that matter?  Perhaps not, but in the meantime, by God's design, our wicked authorities maintain the last link to the visible unity of the Catholic Church that remains gloriously spotless in spite of the enemies within.     

Was it not Japan, that was without priests/sacraments for 250-300 years?  When the missionaries were able to come to Japan, they found that the Catholic Faith was 65% intact.  They said their rosary, perfect contrition and such til then.

We will do the same.  chapter 12 of Daniel says the Sacrifice of the Mass will end.  We are so close, IMO.

The Church is definitely perfect, but the people in Her are not. I don't think I'm describing a Church that has failed at all. I'm describing a bloodied, but otherwise intact Church, suffering horribly from the faithlessness of Her members. The pope is perhaps the most serious problem, but for the good of the Church, we do have a pope, in order to maintain unity.  Kind of like a figurehead for all his wickedness. Yes, he is destroying the Church.  Like St. Peter, Francis is betraying Christ.  He's no worse than Peter, since Peter betrayed Jesus directly. Multiple times.  Did Jesus cut Peter off?  We know He didn't.  Rather, He turned His sweet Countenance toward him and Peter repented.  If Catholics could quit balking about the scandals and started spending more time praying for and begging for mercy for the pope, could Christ not convert Francis, too? The Church is suffering tremendously, living out Our Lord's Passion in time.  Is the Church not the Body of Christ? If you remember, one arm of the Body of Christ (of the Church) was dislocated, something like the NO.  Scripture reminds us that the Body of Christ was only dislocated, not broken. The thing that held Our Lord's Body together, and still holds It together, is His Flesh. The Church has from what I can tell, permitted even the liturgy to suffer the indignities that Christ suffered. Those who caused the destruction of the liturgy and the faith, who do not repent, will go to hell of course, yet Christ remains faithful to His Body in spite of them, going to the depths of what is possible to save the last soul, even to the point of enduring sacrilege in the NO.  Errors are not ok, but enduring them in order to feed His sheep speaks to the depth of the Mercy of Christ.  Did He not endure all that and more at the Crucifixion?  Our Church remains unified and visible, (barely) despite the errors propagated by Church authorities.  Sometimes it seems Christ has gone missing, but we know that cannot be the case.  Even Mary, at one point, had to searchtr for Jesus.  Where did she find Him? In the temple, where Our Lord was instructing the priests and doing the work of His Father.  

Where have I said the people in the Church are perfect, having said that, your pope must think they are since the sacrament of Confession is ... well, where is it?


You said above we have a pope in order to maintain unity, you must be referring to the interfaith and indifference that has been wrought.

 
No, he, your pope is not destroying the Church, IMPOSSIBLE we have God's word on this, he only reduced it to smaller numbers, but then remember there were only 3 people at the foot of the Cross at the death of Jesus.  Also, I might mention your previous post when Jesus submitted to His "authority" the Bible explains it; Jesus submitted to fulfill the reason He was made incarnate, Matthew 26;56 "Now all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled."

Since when is it rebellious to tell the Truth, about the Pope situation.


Of course, God gives Francis the grace to convert as God gives to all His grace, but don't forget FREEWILL, it is obvious that Francis has a different agenda other than feeding sheep as is the Will of God for His Church, there is the authority.
Praying for Francis is a good idea, much better than calling him evil names in public with one side of your face, and with the other side of your face call him the Vicar of Christ.  Scandalous and confusing, something the Church IS NOT!


I am not enjoying typing text to belittle your point of view, I merely want to explain what the term SEDEVANTIST means to me.  It is a Catholic term and the Church PRIOR TO VATICAN II issued a stamp to refer to an era of sedevacantism,  (google it) it does not mean a different sort of Catholic.  It means dependence on God to hold us up with His grace, to continue to give us duly ordained priests, not infiltrated Modernists.  Encourage our youth to keep the faith and wait for God bring about True Unity, not this ecuмenism garbage.  Sedevacantist never promised a solution to the crisis, as so many parrot words to make them feel better.


Yes, the Church is living the passion of Christ, right now on the Cross, in the tomb waiting for the resurrection, which will happen in Gods timing. When Jesus rose from the dead He rose from His own power, the Church will rise again from the power of God.  God does not need those who hold the position of sedevacantism to FIX ANYTHING.


Your idea of the Catholic Faith as described means the Church failed pure and simple.  My idea is the Church has been reduced in numbers and is much smaller.  "I say to you, that He will quickly revenge them.  But yet the Son of man, when He cometh, shall He find, think you, faith on earth?" Luke 18:8

So what you described is a church that is both good and evil.  

The human element in the Church has a capacity for both good and evil. A pope, once elected, does not become Divine upon his election and is therefore incapable of sin or error. He is only protected from error within very specific parameters.

The human element in the Church has a capacity for both good and evil. A pope, once elected, does not become Divine upon his election and is therefore incapable of sin or error. He is only protected from error within very specific parameters.

Consider the possibility, that is if you like most Traditionalists believe, the Church was infiltrated with Masons who had a very powerful AGENDA to fulfill.  He, Francis and his predecessors were never elected. 
Read this CAREFULLY!

Simony can be money, gift, profit or benefit etc.  

Quote

Fifth Lateran Council 1512-17 A.D.

Quote

SESSION 5

Quote

16 February 1513

Quote

[Bull renewing and confirming the Constitution against not committing the evil of simony when electing the Roman pontiff]

Quote

Inserted constitution

Quote

Julius, bishop, servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting record. From a consideration that the detestable crime of simony is forbidden by both divine and human law, particularly in spiritual matters, and that it is especially heinous and destructive for the whole church in the election of the Roman pontiff, the vicar of our lord Jesus Christ, we therefore, placed by God in charge of the government of the same universal church, despite being of little merit, desire, so far as we are able with God’s help, to take effective measures for the future with regard to the aforesaid things, as we are bound to, in accordance with the necessity of such an important matter and the greatness of the danger. With the advice and unanimous consent of our brothers, cardinals of the holy Roman church, by means of this our constitution which will have permanent validity, we establish, ordain, decree and define, by apostolic authority and the fulness of our power, that if it happens (which may God avert in his mercy and goodness towards all), after God has released us or our successors from the government of the universal church, that by the efforts of the enemy of the human race and following the urge of ambition or greed, the election of the Roman pontiff is made or effected by the person who is elected, or by one or several members of the college of cardinals, giving their votes in a manner that in any way involves simony being committed — by the gift, promise or receipt of money, goods of any sort, castles, offices, benefices, promises or obligations — by the person elected or by one or several other persons, in any manner or form whatsoever, even if the election resulted in a majority of two-thirds or in the unanimous choice of all the cardinals, or even in a spontaneous agreement on the part of all, without a scrutiny being made, then not only is this election or choice itself null, and does not bestow on the person elected or chosen in this fashion any right of either spiritual or temporal administration, but also there can be alleged and presented, against the person elected or chosen in this manner, by any one of the cardinals who has taken part in the election, the charge of simony, as a true and unquestionable heresy, so that the one elected is not regarded by anyone as the Roman pontiff.

Quote

A further consequence is that the person elected in this manner is automatically deprived, without the need of any other declaration, of his cardinal’s rank and of all other honours whatsoever as well as of cathedral churches, even metropolitan and patriarchical ones, monasteries, dignities and all other benefices and pensions of whatever kind which he was then holding by title or in commendam or otherwise; and that the elected person is to be regarded as, and is in fact, not a follower of the apostles but an apostate and, like Simon, a magicianl and a heresiarch, and perpetually debarred from each and all of the above-mentioned things. A simoniacal election of this kind is never at any time to be made valid by a subsequent enthronement or the passage of time, or even by the act of adoration or obedience of all the cardinals. It shall be lawful for each and all of the cardinals, even those who consented to the simoniacal election or promotion, even after the enthronement and adoration or obedience, as well as for all the clergy and the Roman people, together with those serving as prefects, castellans, captains and other officials at the Castel Sant’ Angelo in Rome and any other strongholds of the Roman church, notwithstanding any submission or oath or pledge given, to withdraw without penalty and at any time from obedience and loyalty to the person so elected even if he has been enthroned (while they themselves, notwithstanding this, remain fully committed to the faith of the Roman church and to obedience towards a future Roman pontiff entering office in accordance with the canons) and to avoid him as a magician, a heathen, a publican and a heresiarch. To discomfort him still further, if he uses the pretext of the election to interfere in the government of the universal church, the cardinals who wish to oppose the aforesaid election can ask for the help of the secular arm against him.