Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Former sedevacantist nuns five years later  (Read 3889 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nishant

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2126
  • Reputation: +1361/-80
  • Gender: Male
Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
« on: October 23, 2012, 11:43:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Interesting news piece, though I don't agree with all the views it expresses. While this is going to be unpopular, what's interesting to me is that these sisters seem more or less to have based both their decision that the Pope was not the Pope and then that the Pope was the Pope again more or less on the orthodoxy and reverence they saw in the Catholics in their immediate neighborhood than on anything else.  

    Outraged by bad priests who spouted incredible heresies, they became sedevacantists, though there is no connection between there being bad priests and the truth or falsehood of the sedevacantist position. Then, several years later, mostly encouraged by the good example of other Catholics who believed the Pope was the Pope, they left sedevacantism in the same vein. But in either case, apart from opinions about validity, everything else they believe regarding the faith, everything else they practice, remains about the same. They believe as they always believed, they live the religious life they always lived.

    Quote
    Five years ago, a major change came to the lives of Sister Mary Eucharista, a member of the Religious Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen (CMRI), and 14 of her fellow sisters living at Mount St. Michael (“the Mount”) in Spokane, Washington. Bishop Mark Pivarunas, the Superior General of the CMRI organization, told the sisters they had to leave the community if they did not stop promoting “heterodox” views among the other 35 sisters.

    But their “heresy” was not the kind American Catholics have seen in some communities of nuns in recent generations. Sister Mary Eucharista and her sisters were asked to leave because they had come to believe that Pope Benedict XVI was indeed the legitimate head of the Roman Catholic Church.  

    The CMRIs were initially founded in 1967 with approval of Church authorities, but went on to embrace sedevacantism, separating themselves from the Church. As sedevacantists, they do not accept the legitimacy of any of the popes since the close of the Second Vatican Council.  

    “I feel a deep love and compassion for my former community,” Sister Mary Eucharista, 52, says today. “They will always be special to me. But while I understand them, I can never go back unless they return to full communion with the Church.”

    Guitars and bongo drums

    Sister Mary Eucharista was born in Southern California into a pious Catholic family. They prayed the Rosary together and often went to daily Mass. But the close of Vatican II brought major changes to her parish, St. John the Baptist in Costa Mesa. Guitars and bongo drums suddenly appeared at Mass, altar rails and statues were removed, and catechism teachers began publically denying Catholic teachings such as the existence of purgatory and the Assumption of Mary. One day, her mother noticed a holy water font was empty. She told a parish priest and he responded, “Fill it up with water and bless it yourself.”

    In 1969, Sister Mary Eucharista’s parents learned of a new traditional Catholic school being founded in Coeur d’Alene, a northern Idaho resort area that has long been a draw for traditionalist Catholics. Its head was the charismatic Francis Schuckardt (1937-2006), who was originally part of the Blue Army apostolate committed to spreading the message of Our Lady of Fatima. Schuckardt founded the CMRIs as a community of priests, nuns, and religious brothers. The CMRIs would eventually make their headquarters at Mount St. Michael, a former Jesuit seminary in Spokane they had purchased. Sister Mary Eucharista taught at Mount St. Michael for 23 years.

    The CMRIs object to the changes in the Catholic Church which occurred after the Second Vatican Council, particularly in the areas of ecumenism, religious liberty, and collegiality among bishops. They also hold to the celebration of the sacraments according to the pre-Vatican II forms, most notably the old Latin Mass.

    Unlike other traditionalist groups—including the better-known Society of St. Pius X—the CMRIs are also proponents of sedevacantism, the claim that the papal see is vacant (sede vacante—“empty seat”). Thus they believe that Pope Benedict XVI—like John Paul II, John Paul I, Paul VI, and possibly John XXIII before him—is not really the pope. They argue that these popes espouse modernist doctrines over traditional Catholic teachings, and for this reason cannot be legitimate popes.  (Bishop Pivarunas was contacted for comment on this story, including discussion of his sedvacantist beliefs, but did not respond by press time. His defense of sedvacantism and other positions of the CMRI community can be read at the community’s website.)

    Mother Kathryn Joseph left the CMRIs along with Sister Mary Eucharista. “We came to believe the new Mass and sacraments were invalid, so we thought, how could Paul VI be the true pope? He must be an invalid pope, too,” she explained.

    Cult-like practices

    Sister Mary Eucharista’s family re-located to northern Idaho and joined Schuckardt’s community. While many radical changes were occurring in the Church in the outside world, her family was content with the celebration of the old Latin Mass, educating children with the Baltimore Catechism, and religious men and women in traditional habits. However, Sister recalled, “The traditional environment kept us from being concerned about the cult-like practices of the group.”

    For example, women were required to wear long dresses and keep their heads covered; parishioners were encouraged to pray with arms outstretched and walk backwards out of church (so as not to turn their backs on the Blessed Sacrament); reading newspapers and watching TV were discouraged; smoking was considered a mortal sin; and the importance of a religious vocation was emphasized to the point of denigrating marriage.

    Mother Kathryn Joseph added, “It seemed like an oasis of Catholic culture. We never saw ourselves as separate from the Catholic Church. In fact, we thought the Catholic Church left us. We didn’t realize that we were becoming our own Magisterium.”

    Schuckardt led the community until 1984. He was ordained a priest and then a bishop by a bishop of the schismatic Old Catholic Church, giving him valid but illicit orders. However, Schuckardt was publicly accused by a fellow sedevacantist clergyman, Denis Chicoine, of being involved in homosexual relationships with underage associates, as well as of irresponsible fiscal management and drug abuse. Schuckardt denied the charges but left the community immediately.

    Today, the CMRIs are led by Bishop Pivarunas, who was also ordained a priest and bishop illicitly. He lives at a CMRI seminary in Omaha, and oversees dozens of churches in the US, Canada, and New Zealand.

    Entering the CMRI convent

    Sister Mary Eucharista entered the CMRI convent at age 21. Her older sister was a CMRI nun, and she thought she might have a vocation as well.

    “I wanted to be a journalist, I wanted to raise horses and I wanted to get married. But, in the end, I thought God was calling me to religious life,” she said.

    She became a teacher in the Mount St. Mary’s school, St. Michael’s Academy, teaching a variety of subjects, including theology. She was also involved in a variety of CMRI apostolates. Some of the more extreme practices of the CMRI community subsided after Schuckardt’s abrupt departure, and Sister was pleased. “I was absolutely blissful,” she said. “The kids that I taught always told me, ‘Sister, you’re always so happy.’ I told them, ‘Happiness is a choice, and I choose to bloom where I’m planted.’”

    But Sister began having doubts about sedevacantism as early as 1993. She prayed for guidance, and increasingly began talking with Catholics in the “mainstream” Church.

    Mother Kathryn Joseph’s sedevacantist views began to soften in 2000. She took part in a pilgrimage to Rome, and saw rank-and-file Catholics going to confession and praying the Rosary, and was struck by their reverence in church. She even did the unthinkable: participated in a Holy Hour devotion in an adoration chapel in St. Peter’s Basilica. (Because she did not believe in the validity of the new Mass or sacraments, her “official” position was that those in the Vatican chapel “were worshipping a piece of bread.”)

    Mother Kathryn Joseph left Rome hopeful about a possible reconciliation with Church authorities.

    Another development that had a powerful effect on the CMRI community was the coming of EWTN Global Catholic Radio to Spokane around 2005. The CMRIs heard orthodox Catholicism brought to them through the airwaves daily. Some of the sisters objected and insisted the radio be turned off, others were confused, and some were pleased to discover that orthodoxy existed outside their community.

    A visit from nuns belong to Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity also made an impact. “We were taken with them,” Sister Mary Eucharista said. “They modeled religious life to us in a positive way.” The Missionaries of Charity, of course, were considered by the CMRIs to be part of a false church. Local clergy in union with Rome were good models for the sisters of the “mainstream” Church as well.

    Changes come for the CMRIs

    By 2005, things came to a head in the CMRI community. Sister Mary Eucharista had spent much time in prayer and conversation with Catholics in communion with the Church, culminating with her acceptance of Pope Benedict XVI upon his election.  

    She has vivid memories of the day the new Holy Father was announced to the world. As the media broadcast images of Benedict, she was excited and moved to tears. She thought, “I can’t believe it, he’s the pope.”

    Sister Mary Eucharista spoke of her views with her fellow sisters, but was ordered by her mother superior to remain silent. That didn’t sit well with her: “I can’t speak openly in my own house?” she thought.

    She was also no longer allowed to teach theology.

    For Mother Kathryn Joseph, it was a conversation she had with her brother, Mike Duddy, that changed her mind about the Church. He was a former seminarian who taught philosophy at St. Michael’s Academy. He had made the journey from sedevacantist to full communion with the Church, but kept quiet about his views so he could continue teaching. (He was later fired anyway.)

    Mother Kathryn Joseph sat down with him one day to have it out on the sedevacantism issue. “I had an epiphany in one sitting,” she recalled. “I realized that I had been wrong for 35 years. But I was happy to have been proven wrong.”

    Duddy doesn’t recall the particular conversation that converted his sister, so much as a series of conversations he had with both her and members of her community. He had been a seminarian for both the Los Angeles and San Francisco archdioceses, had flirted with sedevacantism and then, after study, rejected it. To this day, he has maintained his dedication to traditional Catholicism, practiced under the proper authorities of the Church.

    He moved to the Spokane area to be closer to family, and put two of his children into St. Michael’s Academy. He didn’t approve of the Mount’s sedvacantism, but since it was not taught in the classroom, he decided it would not have an adverse effect on his children. Additionally, the Mount’s pastor, Father Casimir Puskorius, had been a family friend since childhood. In fact, Father Puskorius asked Duddy to teach philosophy at the school in lieu of paying tuition for his children. Duddy agreed.

    Religion had long been a sensitive topic between Duddy and his sister. The CMRIs, Duddy said, discourage its members from discussing religion with outsiders, as “you’d be exposing yourself to danger. Hence, I wouldn’t talk religion with my sister unless she brought it up.”

    Ultimately, she did. “She finally asked me, ‘You’re traditional, so why don’t you agree with us?’” he recalled.

    Duddy gave his reasons why the sacraments as celebrated since Vatican II were indeed valid, and that the popes of the past 50 years were legitimate. “I’d give her some answers, and she’d go away without saying anything,” he said. “But, she’d come back later with more questions.”

    In time, Mother Kathryn Joseph brought other sisters of the CMRI community to speak with him.  So many sisters began coming—Duddy recalled more than 20—that the group began meeting privately in a house where Duddy would give classes in sacramental theology. The key, Duddy said, was convincing them that the New Mass was valid: “That was the key that kept them brainwashed.”

    When Father Puskorius found out about the classes, he was “irate,” Duddy recalled. “Father said I betrayed him, and that I was a liar because I said I wouldn’t share my views on the Church that contrasted with their beliefs.”

    Duddy countered that he had only promised not to do so in the classroom, not in private conversations initiated by his sister and the other nuns.

    Duddy hoped to begin a dialogue with Bishop Pivarunas, but ultimately was unsuccessful.  

    There are many small, independent sedevantist groups like the CMRIs, Duddy said. To his credit Bishop Pivarunas, unlike leaders of many other groups, has not declared himself to be pope (although Schuckardt is alleged to have). The groups are not in any way unified, Duddy continued, and fight amongst themselves.  He said, “They’re like Protestant churches.”

    Breaking the spell

    Duddy’s classes, the example of the Missionaries of Charity, and interactions the CMRI sisters had with “mainstream” Catholic clergy “broke the spell of lies the sisters were living under,” said Duddy.  In 2006, some of the nuns went to the then-Bishop of Spokane, William Skylstad, seeking to be regularized. The bishop recalled meeting some of the CMRI nuns previously at the Spokane airport, when they had coincidentally been taking the same flight. “It was cordial, but distant, considering their status in the Church,” the bishop said of that meeting.

    Bishop Skylstad was pleased to be meeting the nuns again under better circumstances. Over the course of several meetings, he suggested they stay with the CMRIs a while longer, in an effort to change the minds and hearts of the other sisters. They did, but not for long.

    Some of the CMRI nuns contacted Bishop Pivarunas to ask him to do something about the division in their community. Pivarunas, in turn, wrote each of the dissident sisters telling them to keep quiet about anti-sedevacantist positions or leave the community within two weeks. Some of the nuns agreed to remain silent—15 did not. In June 2007, the 15 sisters left.

    “We were laughing in relief,” Sister Mary Eucharista recalled. “We knew we needed to go. But it wasn’t easy. We had to leave the other sisters and a home we loved; a place many of us had been part of since we were kids. In the minds of the sisters we had left behind, we had become part of the ‘enemy’ Church.”

    Those choosing to stay behind included Mary Eucharista’s older sister. Many in the CMRI community were upset at Pivarunas’ harshness in dealing with the sisters, so the bishop spent some time in Spokane doing damage control, said Duddy. “The bishop insisted that it was the way it had to be,” Duddy said. “And they really returned to their hard-core sedevacantism, preaching it from the pulpit and at St. Michael’s Academy. They took a major step back to preserve their power.”

    With the blessing of Bishop Skylstad, the expelled sisters formed a religious community, the Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Church (SMMC). Mother Kathryn Joseph became the new community’s superior. Their chief apostolates include teaching, working at Immaculate Heart Retreat Center in Spokane, and parish work. Some of the SMMC sisters distribute Communion to patients at Spokane’s Sacred Heart Hospital (another sign of their rebirth, as in the CMRI community, only the priest is allowed to touch the Host).

    Nine sisters and two novices are currently part of the SMMC community, as some of the original 15 have left for other communities. The sisters are currently working with the current bishop of Spokane, Bishop Blaise Cupich, to purchase a property for a motherhouse.

    Bishop Skylstad is pleased with the outcome of the SMMCs’ journey. “It is with profound gratitude and appreciation of their courage that we received them into full communion with the Church,” he said. “Our prayers for unity were answered. It shows that with the power of the Holy Spirit, miracles can happen. It’s wonderful.”

    The CMRIs have not been open to communication or dialogue with the SMMCs. Mother Kathryn Joseph believes fear and a conviction that the SMMCs are apostates are the reasons for the separation. “I hope they will one day be able to share in the joy I have,” she said. “It is a delight and a great comfort to live religious life in the Church.”

    Duddy observed that his sister and the other sisters who left are happier in their new circumstances. “I think they’re pleased to be out of the ‘cultish’ mentality,” he said. “They realize that the Church may have its problems, but it’s still here.”

    “Our new community is energized and filled with the Holy Spirit,” Sister Mary Eucharista said. “I pray daily that my former community may hear the call of the Holy Spirit, and see all he has given us.”
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.

    Offline Stephen Francis

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 682
    • Reputation: +861/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 08:49:58 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nishant
    They believe as they always believed, they live the religious life they always lived.


    No, they don't. They once believed that heresy was heresy; that's why they left the Bogus Ordo. These women spent decades serving Our Lord and His Church as sisters faithful to Tradition. They then decided (because they 'prayed' and talked with heretics) that they were 'led' to believe heresy again.

    Sorry, but all of the devout 'prayer' and spiritual practices in the world don't lead true Christians to embrace heresy and disobey Holy Church and Her venerable Tradition. Their claim that whatever N.O. group they belong to is "energized by the H*ly Sp*rit" (whatever that means) reeks of the indifference of Protestantism. Go 'pray' and get 'led' by some spirit and everything will be fine.

    Fact is, either Montini authorized and issued a new missal in rejection of and disobedience to Quo Primum, or he didn't. Either Roncalli was a Freemason or he wasn't.

    Montini did, and Roncalli was.

    Wojtyla and Ratzinger are no better; in fact, they are demonstrably worse heretics than Montini and Roncalli combined.

    These women should just either go back to their bongos and their spirit "energy" or drop all that nonsense and return to Tradition. The most sickening thing about that whole article is the sense that they are trying to balance both innovative heresy and so-called reverence. Disgusting.

    What about 'buddhists' that have been 'reverently' worshiping a piece of cement? What about Protestants that worship a book and a 'J*sus' that only exists as an amalgam of their particular theological inclinations? Are their religious posturings somehow valid now, because they are reverent and zealous?

    Sounds like these women had some misguided reasons to disobey their VALIDLY-ORDAINED SUPERIORS who were (and are) teaching the Faith rightly and in strict adherence to Tradition. Whatever they discovered when they were 'led' to subvert their Bishop's authority by holding clandestine meetings with heretics certainly wasn't of God.

    One last thing... all the strictures about prayer postures, smoking, etc... WHY were these women so upset and calling these things 'cult-like'? Was Francis of Assisi cult-like when he mortified himself in even more severe ways? How about Gemma Galgani? I thought the point of having spiritual directors in the Church who are your superiors was precisely IN ORDER that they DIRECT you to mortify pride and take stock of your actions, thoughts and speech.

    Poor, deluded, compromised women. May Our Lord Jesus, through the intercession of St. Clare and St. John Vianney, engender in these women once again a humble submission to holy, consecrated life in the One Church and save them from these mortally sinful choices.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar


    Offline Capt McQuigg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4624
    • Reputation: +2597/-9
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 10:16:37 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Don't these sisters now receive communion standing and in the hand?


    Offline SJB

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5171
    • Reputation: +1929/-2
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 10:51:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stephen Francis
    One last thing... all the strictures about prayer postures, smoking, etc... WHY were these women so upset and calling these things 'cult-like'? Was Francis of Assisi cult-like when he mortified himself in even more severe ways? How about Gemma Galgani? I thought the point of having spiritual directors in the Church who are your superiors was precisely IN ORDER that they DIRECT you to mortify pride and take stock of your actions, thoughts and speech.


    CMRI was very cultish under Bp. Schuckardt. It may also be that these things were required to be done by the laity as well. Walking backwards out of a chapel is not normal nor traditional and this was required at one point under Schuckardt.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Stephen Francis

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 682
    • Reputation: +861/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 04:30:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • +JMJ+

    The saints of history have often had seemingly strange or unreasonable strictures placed on their daily lives and/or spiritual disciplines. The point of these strictures is to cultivate attitudes of humility and obedience for their own sake, not because they make sense or seem "reasonable".

    I realize that these things can seem cult-like, but imagine if Protestant-fueled individualistic attitudes like "self determinism" and "private interpretation" hadn't been fomenting in the 16th century. Then we wouldn't have such boldness to cast aspersions on the motives of holy Bishops who were/are trying to inculcate true holiness of life in their parishioners.

    Granted, there always have been and always will be people who abuse power, even righteous and legitimate power, because we are ALL in need of daily conversion. Bishops, however, as much or more so than priests, have a charism from God that not only sometimes leads them to direct in ways that seem overzealous, but also have an authority that we laypeople simply do not have. In short, if my most reverend Bishop is not asking me to deny dogmas of the Church or to blaspheme or otherwise commit sin, then if he says "walk backwards", I ask "until I reach where, your Excellency?"

    St. Augustine, holy and faithful successor to the Apostles, pray for us.

    Mary, Help of Christians, pray for us.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar


    Offline ora pro me

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 648
    • Reputation: +379/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 05:41:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Stephen Francis,
    It's so good to have you back.  

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5020
    • Reputation: +3823/-26
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 06:00:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This was a very interesting article, thanks for posting it Nishant. You could certainly see the bias of the author, though. And no, I don't think they've really believed as they always believed, unfortunately:

    Quote
    Some of the SMMC sisters distribute Communion to patients at Spokane’s Sacred Heart Hospital (another sign of their rebirth, as in the CMRI community, only the priest is allowed to touch the Host).

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5020
    • Reputation: +3823/-26
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 06:01:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: ora pro me
    Stephen Francis,
    It's so good to have you back.  


    +1


    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2423/-11
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 06:33:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is really irrelevant about the cultish practices during the time of Francis Shuckhart.  The fact was that CMRI reformed themselves, in the 1980's, kicked out Shuckhart, adopted a pre-Vatican II rule, corrected their issues with their holy orders, and was under very good leadership with Bp. Pivarunas and their senior priests.  

    The CMRI do not pretend to have jurisdiction in statement and in practice.  They know their place in the Church.  These sisters, in my view had no clue what they left.  They left the only organization in the Church that has sorted through all the issues and has finally got it right, theologically, canonically, and spiritually.

    These sisters listened to a layman, were dazzled by his easily refutable arguments, and they are now part of the Novus Ordo false church.

    Make no mistake about his people, there is no compromise with this false church, and all that pretend that this is the Church and make deals with them in the end lose the Faith.   Read about the other 9 groups like these sisters that have made their deals, and have compromised the Faith:  http://www.truetrad.com/index.php/other-organizations-who-made-a-deal-with-rome
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline PartyIsOver221

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1238
    • Reputation: +640/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 07:47:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Stephen Francis, great posts.

    Offline songbird

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3302
    • Reputation: +1220/-63
    • Gender: Female
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 09:39:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The infil"traitors" are always busy.  CMRI had this with nuns, and then seminarians who had to make a chose.  They are there for the vocation, or if they are there to infiltrate, then get out!  Communism , the devil, is everywhere to make a complete take over.   I am very glad that Bishop P. did what needed to be done.  This is CMRI's mission.  If you are in disagreement and you are unhappy, leave.  But if you are here to not do God's work and to put your efforts to changing minds in a 180 degree turn, leave!  The problem is not CMRI, it is those who are there for other reasons than to serve God!


    Offline Emerentiana

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1420
    • Reputation: +1194/-13
    • Gender: Female
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 09:45:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stephen Francis
    Quote from: Nishant
    They believe as they always believed, they live the religious life they always lived.


    No, they don't. They once believed that heresy was heresy; that's why they left the Bogus Ordo. These women spent decades serving Our Lord and His Church as sisters faithful to Tradition. They then decided (because they 'prayed' and talked with heretics) that they were 'led' to believe heresy again.

    Sorry, but all of the devout 'prayer' and spiritual practices in the world don't lead true Christians to embrace heresy and disobey Holy Church and Her venerable Tradition. Their claim that whatever N.O. group they belong to is "energized by the H*ly Sp*rit" (whatever that means) reeks of the indifference of Protestantism. Go 'pray' and get 'led' by some spirit and everything will be fine.

    Fact is, either Montini authorized and issued a new missal in rejection of and disobedience to Quo Primum, or he didn't. Either Roncalli was a Freemason or he wasn't.

    Montini did, and Roncalli was.

    Wojtyla and Ratzinger are no better; in fact, they are demonstrably worse heretics than Montini and Roncalli combined.

    These women should just either go back to their bongos and their spirit "energy" or drop all that nonsense and return to Tradition. The most sickening thing about that whole article is the sense that they are trying to balance both innovative heresy and so-called reverence. Disgusting.

    What about 'buddhists' that have been 'reverently' worshiping a piece of cement? What about Protestants that worship a book and a 'J*sus' that only exists as an amalgam of their particular theological inclinations? Are their religious posturings somehow valid now, because they are reverent and zealous?

    Sounds like these women had some misguided reasons to disobey their VALIDLY-ORDAINED SUPERIORS who were (and are) teaching the Faith rightly and in strict adherence to Tradition. Whatever they discovered when they were 'led' to subvert their Bishop's authority by holding clandestine meetings with heretics certainly wasn't of God.

    One last thing... all the strictures about prayer postures, smoking, etc... WHY were these women so upset and calling these things 'cult-like'? Was Francis of Assisi cult-like when he mortified himself in even more severe ways? How about Gemma Galgani? I thought the point of having spiritual directors in the Church who are your superiors was precisely IN ORDER that they DIRECT you to mortify pride and take stock of your actions, thoughts and speech.

    Poor, deluded, compromised women. May Our Lord Jesus, through the intercession of St. Clare and St. John Vianney, engender in these women once again a humble submission to holy, consecrated life in the One Church and save them from these mortally sinful choices.



    SO RIGHT Steven!   They are a mess.  All caused by disobedience to Superiors!

    Offline Stephen Francis

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 682
    • Reputation: +861/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 09:59:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • +JMJ+

    Deo gratias. Whatever I have said that made any sense has been because I lay my mind, heart and will in Our Lady's hands and ask Her motherly help in order that my fiat to Our Lord God and His Church might somehow, in some tiny and insignificant way, reflect Hers.

    Holy Saints and Apostles, models of self-denial and mortification of all that displeases Our Lord, pray for us.

    Mary, Help of Christians, pray for us.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline SJB

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5171
    • Reputation: +1929/-2
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 07:33:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stephen Francis
    Granted, there always have been and always will be people who abuse power, even righteous and legitimate power, because we are ALL in need of daily conversion. Bishops, however, as much or more so than priests, have a charism from God that not only sometimes leads them to direct in ways that seem overzealous, but also have an authority that we laypeople simply do not have. In short, if my most reverend Bishop is not asking me to deny dogmas of the Church or to blaspheme or otherwise commit sin, then if he says "walk backwards", I ask "until I reach where, your Excellency?"


    With respect to the laity, neither a priest or bishop has dominative power over the laity. It's not about an "abuse" of power, it's that the power does not even exist.

    Remember, we're talking about the laity. The dominative power a religious superior has over his subjects (as a result of the vow of obedience) is entirely different.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Stephen Francis

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 682
    • Reputation: +861/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Former sedevacantist nuns five years later
    « Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 08:45:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • SJB,

    I find it hard to believe that the successors to the Apostles have no power over the laity to command obedience. I am not saying it is an all-encompassing power to do whatever they wish, but certainly their authority which is by virtue of their valid succession is more than an academic or administrative one.

    Believe me, when I read what was written for the first time, I was taken aback as well. I honestly do not know how I would have felt if I were being given directives such as those. I truly hope and pray that I would have been immediately obedient, even if what was happening was a temporary cross that I was being called to bear. Sometimes Our Lord sees fit to allow us to suffer under things that are (or seem) unjust; our UNDERSTANDING is not the goal; our submission to His Holy Will is.

    Mary, Help of Christians, pray for us.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

    P.S. WHY was my reply to the kind comments directed to me thumbed down? I apologize if my words seemed overly flowery or high-handed, but they are sincere, even if I do come off as petulant sometimes. I tend to flex my vocabulary when I am in a good mood :) because it's much better than the gutter filth I would commonly spew when I was not in any sense cooperating with God's graces.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16