Author Topic: For Sedevacantists (Read 7930 times)

Kephapaulos · « **on:** July 05, 2007, 01:43:54 AM »

Two questions for sedevacantist Cathinfo members:

1) How did you come to adhering to the sedevacantist thesis?

2) If you ended up ever actually meeting Benedict XVI in person, would you tell him straight that he is not Pope?

Cletus · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2007, 02:28:02 AM »

1. I simply came to the conclusion that it was the only Catholic way to account for what I knew infallibly through Unaided Reason about the nature of the post-Vatican II church.

2. No. If for some reason I HAD to meet with him, I would not say, "You are not the pope." I would talk to him with cool reserve but some respect for him as a classy humanist type ONLY about Mozart. That would be how I would make my point, anyway. For me he simply is not someone to whom I should be speaking about Christ or the obedience or faith or anything spiritual at all.

There is no call to be bitter and sour about these things: after all, it is not as though we are OWED a Church or a Pope or Sanctifying Grace or salvation itself. We have to be reasonable and moderate about how we view even our worst enemies. And we ALL have souls to TRY to save. There would be no point in not being as nice to the man as possible if I HAD to meet him for some reason.

Oh, but I would insist on calling him by his first Christian name or his last name with the secular title of his choice and that he dress in a business suit at our meeting. If he did it for his brother at THEIR Mozart-related tete-a-tete he could do it at ours. Any sign of my respecting him as a religious leader would be out of the question.

MichaelSolimanto · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2007, 06:45:15 AM »

Would you address him as Your Holiness, or Your Wholiness? (joke intended but would you address him as a pope for public decency?)

Cletus · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:02:42 PM »

I would not address him as pope, or refer to him as pope. Iw would call him Josef, Joe, Herr Ratzinger, or nothing, politely letting him choose.

I don't see what is so "decent" about calling him pope. I don't think that it creates "public indecency" not to call him pope. What ARE examples of public indecency are the World Youth Day Events that the accepted rulers of the tiny nation of Vatican City sponsor year after year.

Trinity · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:12:22 PM »

Wow! Those are great questions, Keph.

My story is long. I won't bore you with it, but suffice it to say that it was the hardest, most painful thing I've ever done. But my choices were to either close my eyes to what was going on or accept the one and only conclusion that fit. Since I had committed myself to the Truth, the whole Truth, and only the Truth years before, I didn't really have a choice.

Question two: I would hope that I had the courage of John the Baptist to say, "It is not lawful..."

Got any more questions?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2007, 02:27:49 PM »

Quote from: Kephapaulos

1) How did you come to adhering to the sedevacantist thesis?

I saw that something was seriously "rotten in Denmark" (Rome), dug a little bit deeper, and concluded that such things could not possibly come from the Catholic Church. Ergo, it must be coming from a counterfeit (and thus the leaders thereof are also fakes). There are, of course, more details, but that is it in a nutshell.

Quote

2) If you ended up ever actually meeting Benedict XVI in person, would you tell him straight that he is not Pope?

Of course, although I do not know specifically what I would do. I might get Maccabeean on him (a la Mathathias), or I might have a long talk with 'His Crypto-Rabbi-ness'. It also would depend upon the circuмstances surrounding the meeting (public/private, Rome/Vatican/elsewhere, etc.).

Trinity · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2007, 06:55:22 AM »

Well, Keph, I see you don't have any more questions for us, so I'll ask some of you.

What caused you to conclude that the popes are valid?

How do you explain their departure from the teachings of the Church?

Clodovicus · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2007, 03:11:00 PM »

Like Trinity, Mine is a long story and not worth anyone's valuable time, it would probably mean anything to anyone else anyway.

I would rather not have to meet him, and if I did I might refer to him as "your unholiness", or "Bonjourno, Antipappam!", and make sure I had my Blessed Benedictine Crucifix.

Dawn · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2007, 09:03:45 PM »

As with the others, reading, especially anything written by Popes Leo XII, Pius any number. You see, it simply can not be that the things that they wrote of and said, "If anyone believes of these things, let him be anathema." There was no expiration date, they did not say, only till 1962, then the sky is the limit. Those things can not change and yes, I would confront him with all the love and kindness I could show forth because I do not want to see anyone loose their soul as so many have lost theirs through the New Church.

Dawn · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2007, 07:25:12 AM »

Well, the awaited day has arrived. The Church has returned to the Latin Mass, oh wait, no. Only if the priest has "stable" parishioners. Translate: people who swallow hook line and sinker Vatican II. And, it has been tailore not to offen anyone, especially Jєωs by praying that they accept Christ as their Saviour. Truth is that if one is honest with one's self, they will come to examine the goings on of this Pontiff especially, they will see he is no Catholic, Any pontiff who will not cast his net as St. Peter to convert all to the one true Faith is no Catholic.
Then, when you realize that the only thing stopping your from saying this man is not Catholic, therefore, can not be on the Chair of St. Peter, will be one's own nature that will prevent you from saying," Trinity, Gladius, Cletus, ect. you were right. You saw this before me, they have not been Catholic, they can not be Pope.

dust-7 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2007, 09:31:03 PM »

Quote from: Kephapaulos

Two questions for sedevacantist Cathinfo members:

1) How did you come to adhering to the sedevacantist thesis?

2) If you ended up ever actually meeting Benedict XVI in person, would you tell him straight that he is not Pope?

One might wonder how a person "adheres", sticks, is caught up, is solidified in their solidarity to the notion that a Catholic Pope would kiss the Koran or worship at a mosque. One would wonder about adherence to the idea that a Catholic Pope would say to the Jєωs - their Messiah has yet to come - when the entire Church is partly built upon our confession of Christ as the great Promised Messiah. And so on.

It's not that Catholics need to explain why we await a Pope. The question is rather why Roman Protestants continue to call themselves, Catholic, when they do what they do at 'services' and elsewhere, and follow clerics who do and say what they do contrary to the letter and spirit of The Church. The burden isn't on Catholics to show that the PC (post-conciliar) 'Popes' aren't. It's self-evident, rather. The burden is on those who claim that these men are part of the long line and succession of Popes to reconcile what they've done, said or failed to do with the behavior one would expect from even one of the historically bad Popes. That is - would a Pope do such a thing? And fill in the blank with a hundred different scandals.

If I had had the chance to meet Wotyla, I would not have bent the knee, or kissed his ring. I would have been polite. But I certainly would not have confessed him at the head of The Roman Catholic Church. The same with Ratzinger. You walk with Christ by standing for Him, and not against Him. These men stand against him, and you can't stand with them.

Trinity · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2007, 01:16:04 AM »

Quote

You walk with Christ by standing for Him, and not against Him. These men stand against him, and you can't stand with them.

I made that point awhile back and no one said boo. Go figure.

Matthew · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2007, 08:33:39 AM »

It would be good to admonish the Pope, with all respect, when he is in error (as St. Paul did to St. Peter).

I still fail to understand why it is so necessary to "repudiate" the recent Popes. Do you honestly believe that God is going to require that of us Catholics? When Catholics are trained from birth to reverence their ecclesiastical superiors?

Now the Mass and sacraments are another story. There is nothing wrong with TAKING what rightfully belongs to us, namely the Tridentine Mass, ALL the traditional sacraments, catechism, sermons, etc. and that is what the SSPX is doing. They have no special permission from Rome to say the TLM exclusively, but we know that we don't NEED permission to be Catholic!

So what I'm asking is, what PRACTICAL spiritual benefit is gained by vocally repudiating Benedict XVI? You can't say "we're not compromised as Catholics" because neither are SSPX Catholics, though they leave the Papal issue alone (believing, quite rightly, that it is not for a layman to judge the Pope)

You also can't say the SSPX is following the Pope into error, because the SSPX hasn't fallen into any of the modernist errors. A Catholic isn't obligated to follow heresy or error, even when it comes from the Pope. We in the SSPX try to be prudent in this crisis -- we respect the office, and pray for the man.

In Christ,

Matthew

Trinity · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2007, 08:43:00 AM »

Because that is intellectual dishonesty, Chant. You are saying it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but it isn't a duck because look where it's at. And the emperor would NEVER parade through town in the buff.

Look at the nuts and bolts. John XXIII through Benedict XVI have been the enemy of Christ and the mission of the Church. Do the math.

Dawn · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2007, 10:43:14 AM »

What we need, and may have and I am not aware of that, is St. Brigit of Sweden or St. Catherine of Sienna. And, yes, they would use all available forms of modern communication to contact Benedict. SOULS ARE AT STAKE, and so I am sure they would do whatever it takes.