Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: jman123 on March 03, 2014, 08:56:36 AM
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http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/03/Rorate-Exclusive.html
Francis appointee bans latin mass.
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And this is a surprise because.......?
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If he's gonna blatantly deny people the Mass of Our Blessed Lord to people who need it, I don't think he's even Catholic. What'll stop him from saying that people should pray a rosary to Muhammad or that everyone's fine in their own religion? This man is in no way qualified to serve people and will answer to God on his dying day for his perfidious act.
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Back to the Tridentine Mass NOT Extraordinary Form.
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:dancing-banana:
I do not go to this school, but if I had any association with it, I would no longer!
If sspx makes an agreement w/unconverted Rome, this is what will happen.
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This is the new modus operandi for Francis' implementation of the Conciliar reform. Francis himself will remain, for the most part, officially unconnected with the brutal suppression of Tradition except when this nets him positive PR; that duty will be devolved upon diocesan bishops, bishops' councils, and various Vatican congregations who have been back-channeled the necessary instructions and who are willingly on board anyway. We have already seen this pattern emerge with respect to Kasper's intention to distribute Communion to the divorced and remarried. The preponderance of pressure will be on the side of liberal reform, and if any conservative prelate or layperson protests the new direction in the name of Tradition, Francis will simply tell him to ignore the bishop or council in question while himself doing nothing to discourage the liberalization. The Vatican will implement the Gramscian strategy of rule by consensus reality. There will be no accountability, no place to address grievances, but the voices of conservatism will succuмb to a ratchet effect of frustration and marginalization. After the C8 conference (or whatever the hell it's called) and next year's Episcopal Synod, the Novus Ordo church will officially become nothing more than an affiliate of locally organized community centers.
This will mean strange days ahead for the Resistance, who at that point will be stronger partisans of papal authority than the pope himself. Will they continue to recognize Francis as a legitimate pope, or will they finally adopt a sede-like position when they realize that nobody at all is discharging the papal duties, that there is some sort of pope-regent in the Vatican but no true pope? Perhaps the idea that Paul VI's rejection of the papal tiara was a de facto abdication and meant that neither he nor his successors ever legitimately held jurisdiction within the Church from that point forward, will be voiced with greater urgency.
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This is PURE EVIL.
I'm sorry, I saw the rorate piece and they called this Hound of Hell "the Most Rev" AND capital "B" bishop — in regard to Michael Olson, like they are begging Olson 666 for a favor by calling him honorifics reserved for holy men of the Church. No: rorate caeli can't do that and still retain the Advent prose name which begs for righteousness to fall from the sky; calls for Our Lord.
Rorate coeli desuper et nubes pluant justum
Aperiatur terra et germinet salvatorem
But a blog proudly alluding to the beautiful part of Isaiah used in Mass and the Offices can't honor a son of Satan who wants to GET RID OF THOSE WORDS! I thought rorate used to skirt the problem (not turning into Traditio; remaining in conciliar-land as a shining light for others stuck in the fallen conciliar thing) by using well-placed pronouns and a picture of the dude. Like, picture of Dolan, and "He said [list of blasphemies]".
(I stopped going by rorate so much when they turned comments off so maybe they've made like Voris and jumped on the Bergoglio Bargain Bus).
But to call an obvious poser in Church trappings anything that suggests he is part of the Church? What's next: are they going to start calling Bergogio's new BFF "His Excellency the Most Reverend Kenneth Copeland, Bishop of Tongues in LaLa Land"?
:dwarf: I'm mad.
(eta: good call, the post above this one by Man of the West)
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While it is unlikely to have any effect, couldn't the school appeal based on the Motu Proprio? Isn't it still supposed to be in effect?
Luke
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The Conciliar sect is once again moving to implement the Revolution and destroy the Catholic religion.
There are non-Catholics occupying the chanceries, and the subversive in the Vatican is fully behind them.
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:dancing-banana:
I do not go to this school, but if I had any association with it, I would no longer!
If sspx makes an agreement w/unconverted Rome, this is what will happen.
The admissions office will sound like someone popped an airlock in the space station, come registration time.
I wonder what they're gonna do with their FSSP chaplain?
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I wonder what they're gonna do with their FSSP chaplain?
He will get promoted to a more mainstream college to make sure that anyone on the road to Tradition there stays in their snares.
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I especially love the part about how he's doing it for the good of their souls, ya know, out of his great pastoral solicitude and all that.
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While it is unlikely to have any effect, couldn't the school appeal based on the Motu Proprio? Isn't it still supposed to be in effect?
Luke
The Motu Proprio allows for priests to privately say the 1962 Mass, even if some of the faithful attend. This being a publicly scheduled service, the bishop is within his rights, according to the Conciliar church's law, to forbid it.
This is what happens to anyone or any institution that puts themselves under the jackboot of that non-Christian sect.
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I wonder what they're gonna do with their FSSP chaplain?
He left months ago. There're rumors an SSPX priest has filled-in since then, which would explain why the ravening wolf Olson took such extreme measures as using Holy Mass as a form of punishment.
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This is the diocesan side of this story...basically the diocese is mad because the SSPX will be running this school soon...
http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/fisher-more-denied-ability-to-offer-tlm/
Fisher-More denied ability to offer TLM
March 3, 2014
Some commenters already brought this up in another post, but Rorate has a screaming headline concerning Fisher-More College in Ft. Worth, and some decision by the Diocese of Fort Worth to deny Fisher-More the ability to have the Traditional Latin Mass on campus.
You guys know how much I respect Rorate. But I think in this case their zeal for the TLM, and perhaps a less than full understanding of the situation, may have skewed their coverage a bit.
As commenter Skeinster noted, there are problems at Fisher-More. Problems so severe, I privately regretted having supported their fundraising drive last fall (I had heard inklings at the time I gave that support, but came to know much, much more shortly thereafter).
A lot of people who live outside Texas, and even many within the state who reside outside the Metroplex, do not know how close together Dallas and Fort Worth are. It’s only about a half hour drive from downtown Dallas to downtown Fort Worth. As such, our local Traditional Latin Mass community shares a lot of people between the two cities. And, the priests of our FSSP parish provide a TLM in the Fort Worth Diocese on Sundays. Some priests from our parish have taught classes at Fisher-More.
But they have stopped doing so. In fact, many long-time faculty have left Fisher-More. This is not solely related to their financial woes. In fact, it has to do with really severe problems with the college’s administration, and in particular, the college president Michael King referenced.
I know many exceedingly good traditional Catholic families who have (or, I should stress, had) children at Fisher-More. I know some folks who have taught there. I know some who are still employed there. All are unfailingly stalwart supporters of the great Tradition of our Faith and all recognize the hideous crisis now afflicting the Church. But many – most – have increasingly grave concerns regarding Fisher-More and especially the direction Michael King is taking the college. Well-known traditional Catholic academic Taylor Marshall left Fisher-More last summer over these same concerns.
These concerns center on Mr. King taking an increasingly severe stand regarding the Council and the changes that have occurred in the Church in the past 50 years. I am not privy to all the details – perhaps some of those who are could chime in – but the level of excoriation for the Church and Her leaders has reached a state that even many good, traditional Catholics are scandalized by the rhetoric. And, from what I have been told by many, no dissent from Mr. King’s “direction” is tolerated. Those that voice doubts or express concerns are dismissed, virtually on the spot. This applies to both faculty and staff. As such, the college has lost many longtime faculty and administrators and even the college’s founder has been sidelined. Again, I have had all this confirmed to me by numerous sources. Many students – very solid, traditional Catholic students – have left the university as it seems to be heading towards such extremism the students fear scandal if they continue their studies.
In addition, many parents feel that they are being told one story by the administration (Mr. King), but that the reality is something quite different. Many parents feel misled.
I’m not saying Bishop Olson’s solution is fully appropriate or justifiable. It seems severe. And naturally, it was aimed at the TLM. If this was absolutely necessary and the ONLY way Bishop Olson thought he could solve the problems at Fisher-More, he should have explained why his action in that regard was uniquely necessary. He should also explained under what authority he, as a bishop, managed to undo a papal act liberalizing the availability of the TLM. Bishop Olson has now caused some degree of scandal among the faithful, who feel their rights trampled upon.
After Bishop Vann departed, the vicar general of Fort Worth had already restricted the TLM at Fisher-More. It could be Bishop Olson followed the recommendations of his staff, some of which probably aren’t too fond of having a traditional Catholic college in their diocese. And even if this act is intended to be some charitable attempt to recall a wayward sheep, it does seem harsh and uncharitable towards students and others at Fisher-More who have come to depend upon the TLM. Fisher-More was an attempt to build a traditional Catholic college, but without the TLM either on campus or immediately available on a daily basis, it would seem one of the prime reasons for the college’s existence was just wiped out. Close as Dallas and Fort Worth are, asking college students to drive 60 miles round trip every day to assist at the TLM in Irving is a bit much.
I also think it was an unfortunately clumsy statement – a truly foolhardy statement – to associate removal of the TLM with “the good of your own soul.” I think folks are reading a connection there that may not be intended, but it’s too easily made by this very brief, very unspecific docuмent.
Nevertheless, there has been growing concern locally both over King’s draconian style of administration and his seeming desire to make Fisher-More an informal (or formal, who knows?) appendage of the Society of St. Pius X. That may not be King’s intent, but it is the impression many have. In addition, I am told that even though they managed to stay open this spring, Fisher-More’s finances are a wreck and the college is living on borrowed time. These issues may seem unrelated, but they are not. In fact, they are tightly intertwined. That’s all I’ll say about that.
So, make up your own mind. Hopefully we’ll get some more details in the comments from those close to Fisher-More.
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Honestly, how can people defend this ravening wolf?
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I wonder what they're gonna do with their FSSP chaplain?
He left months ago. There're rumors an SSPX priest has filled-in since then, which would explain why the ravening wolf Olson took such extreme measures as using Holy Mass as a form of punishment.
I would like to note that I just reviewed the college's website and the college absolutely denies that any Mass has been celebrated by any priest who did not have permission to do so from the Diocese of Fort Worth:
No public Mass of any Form has ever been offered in the College chapel by a priest lacking regular faculties. Over the past three years, the College has been privileged to host priests as overnight visitors to our campus, many of whom used the Chapel to offer private Masses, including priests from the Friars of the Immaculate, the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, and the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter.
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Can someone explain how Benedict XVI's moto proprio declaration granting the "Indult" does not apply to the priests who said mass at this college? Is the indult cancelled now?
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I would like to note that I just reviewed the college's website and the college absolutely denies that any Mass has been celebrated by any priest who did not have permission to do so from the Diocese of Fort Worth:
No public Mass of any Form has ever been offered in the College chapel by a priest lacking regular faculties. Over the past three years, the College has been privileged to host priests as overnight visitors to our campus, many of whom used the Chapel to offer private Masses, including priests from the Friars of the Immaculate, the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, and the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter.
Just so. This is a situation where one side has been doing its damnedest to play strictly by Newchurch rules and the other side—the side holding all the marbles as well as the exclusive right to write and rewrite the rules at will—laughs loudly at the first side's cluelessness.
As you, Geremia, and others have clearly done, I too read the linked material provided by Petertherock. What a depressing way to spend half an hour! The tipoff that one is in the land of the legally deaf and blind is the suggestion by the moderator (seconded quickly by some commenters) that the Rorate Caeli crowd is made up of weird Traditionalist eccentrics and dangerous flakes. I can't recall the last time I felt sympathy for "New Catholic," but his evident frustration at not being able to get the herd to look at what was relevant to the situation, let alone address it, ought to give him a sense of how real Trads react to him and his website (it won't, though).
The commenters at first looked like mere sycophants, but upon reflection it seems wiser to conclude that they are just very, very stupid. Even back in preconciliar days, Catholics understood that by no means all bishops and priests consistently acted for the best or even with consistently good intentions (I am old enough, alas, to remember that). Yet the commenters on that silly thread can barely entertain the idea that Newbishop Olson is made of flesh and bone. I'm sure they would treat his views about used cars and toothpaste with the same uncritical assent and obedience that they have accorded his plainly improper conduct* in this sad affair.
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* At least, "improper" by last week's rules.
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An article explaining the College's side of things..
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/323-it-is-what-it-is-fort-worth-diocese-clarifies-bishop-olson-s-ban-on-traditional-latin-mass-at-fisher-more-college
President Provides College’s Perspective
Exclusive to The Remnant
Fort Worth, Texas, March 3, 2014—Today’s blogosphere and Catholic news sites were lit up by the startling news that His Excellency Michael F. Olson, STD, Bishop for the Catholic diocese of Fort Worth, Texas, had forbidden Fisher More College from having Catholic priests offer the Traditional Latin Mass at the college. This, despite the fact that the college had full diocesan approval since 2010, including a chaplain offered as a courtesy by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter from Feb. 2013 through June 2013.
Most recently, a priest from the Fathers of Mercy based in Auburn, Kentucky, known more for preaching Catholic missions than for their traditional liturgical leanings, ably served the students and faculty. In addition to offering daily access to the Traditional Latin Mass throughout the school year, the college offered substantial parts of the traditional Divine Office, often-times sung, with a fully intellectually rigorous Catholic liberal arts curriculum.
In summary, in a letter dated February 24, 2014, Bishop Olson, installed as the diocese’s fourth Ordinary less than one month prior, forbade Fisher More College from the public celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass at its chapel. Not only did he forbid its public celebration, but he informed the college that they were allowed to have the Novus Ordo liturgy with priests from the diocese, all with the threat of his withdrawing permission to have Holy Mass offered and the Blessed Sacrament reserved in the college’s chapel. “I make these norms out of my pastoral solicitude and care for students of Fisher-More (sic) College as well as for your own soul,” Bishop Olson stated in his letter.
As the blogosphere and Catholic news sites engaged in wild speculation about “what really happened” from unnamed people in the know, anonymous priests from the nearby Dallas diocese and speculation that the college had really gone off the rails, The Remnant sought and received further information directly from the sources of the contention—the bishop’s office of the Diocese of Fort Worth and Michael King, president of Fisher More College.
“It was a private letter and someone leaked it, and it is what it is,” said Pat Svacina, director of communications for the Diocese of Fort Worth. “Bishop Olson has nothing to add to what has been out there,” Svacina said.
Fisher More’s King said the college received the letter from the Bishop on Wed., Feb. 26, and he read it out loud to the students and faculty to make them aware of the situation. The fact that the letter purported to be “private correspondence,” but that impacted dozens of college faculty, staff, students and parents was not explained by the bishop’s spokesman. As the college’s mission is centered on the Church’s liturgical and spiritual tradition, King said that the board felt compelled to be transparent to those affected by the Bishop’s decision.
King said he was invited to a meeting with Bishop Olson that was very short and provided no further details other than the contents of the letter. “There wasn’t much discussion,” he said. “There was no discussion about the college at all.”
Meanwhile, high traffic volume driven to Fisher More’s website prevented the college from issuing clarifying statements later in the day today regarding the school’s mission, guest speakers and their corresponding topics the college has hosted since 2012 (http://fishermore.edu/list-college-chaplains-since-2010/) and a lineup of priests the college has had as chaplains with public ministry since 2010 under the watch of former Bishop Kevin Vann (See http://fishermore.edu/list-college-chaplains-since-2010/).
Note that every priest had faculties for confessions and diocesan approval to offer public Holy Mass at the chapel up to the bishop’s edict. Michael King, president of Fisher More said that Father Nicholas Gruner, famous for his Fatima apostolate, recently spoke as a guest lecturer, but did not offer any public ministry at the college chapel. Many consider Father Gruner to be controversial because of his vocal and persistent call for the consecration of Russia by the Pope together with all of the bishops of the world as Sister Lucia repeatedly stated that our Lady of Fatima requested.
King noted that the academic curriculum at Fisher More is rigorous, and as a college in the intellectual tradition of the Church, its professors and guest lecturers often address controversial topics such as the theological speculation of Karl Rahner and Hans Urs von Balthasar, scientific evolution versus intelligent design, and other similar topics.
King said that he prefers not to respond publicly to critics about his leadership style, nor those critics of the college’s faculty. Fisher More College is currently considering its canonical options regarding the Diocese of Fort Worth’s decision to ban the Traditional Latin liturgy while still allowing the Novus Ordo to be offered by diocesan priests.
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Can someone explain how Benedict XVI's moto proprio declaration granting the "Indult" does not apply to the priests who said mass at this college? Is the indult cancelled now?
The indult to say the traditional (1962) Mass is an exception that the local bishop has the authority to grant or not grant.
This is what the motu proprio says:
Art. 2. In Masses celebrated without the people, each Catholic priest of the Latin rite, whether secular or regular, may use the Roman Missal published by Bl. Pope John XXIII in 1962, or the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970, and may do so on any day with the exception of the Easter Triduum. For such celebrations, with either one Missal or the other, the priest has no need for permission from the Apostolic See or from his Ordinary.
As you can see, the phrase I bolded merely allows priests to say the 1962 Mass without permission if he does so alone, without servers, without people present.
This bishop has fully accommodated, in accordance with other provisions of the motu proprio, the wishes for the 1962 Mass by anyone who wishes to attend by making it available at St. Mary of the Assumption Church (see the bishop's letter, norm #1).
Now, if the college closes the doors of the chapel, the bishop cannot deny the right of any Conciliar priest who has faculties to say Mass in his diocese to say the 1962 Mass. Of course, no one would know about it so it would not be an issue.
Just so. This is a situation where one side has been doing its damnedest to play strictly by Newchurch rules and the other side—the side holding all the marbles as well as the exclusive right to write and rewrite the rules at will—laughs loudly at the first side's cluelessness.
This is why the SSPX's "celebration" of Summorum Pontificuм was so insane! The motu proprio did not "free" the traditional Mass, which was, I thought, one of the pre-conditions to negotiations. All it did was allow for priests to do in secrecy what they wished to do without having any scruples of conscience that they were "breaking the rules" or something like that. The [Conciliar] faithful have exactly the same legal access to attend the traditional (1962) Mass they did prior to the publication of the motu proprio on July 7, 2007--i.e., if they can find a willing priest and if they can find a church building whose rector is willing to allow it, and if the bishop is willing to allow the nostalgic fad that they all believe is behind the desire to go to the traditional Mass, they can have it when and where the bishop graciously allows. Otherwise, who cares what the laity do because most of them still put money in the collection basket anyway?
Just so. This is a situation where one side has been doing its damnedest to play strictly by Newchurch rules and the other side—the side holding all the marbles as well as the exclusive right to write and rewrite the rules at will—laughs loudly at the first side's cluelessness.
And are you surprised? Satan always laughs at people's foolishness.
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One reason this Francis-appointee wolf banned FMC's TLM after just a month at the job is because, according to ex-FMC «ex officio» board member Dr. Taylor Marshall, FMC's Dr. Dudley
claimed in his Year of Faith lecture that Catholic professors have the duty to teach young people that Vatican 2 is not a valid Council (he also endorsed other “resistance” positions regarding the Novus Ordo, John Paul II, etc.).
You can read Dr. Dudley's lecture here: http://fishermore.edu/.../uploads/Dudley-Faith-in-Europe.pdf
Another reason I've been able to verify from a mother of an FMC student is that their current chaplain is SSPX, since the FSSP one left months ago:One of his [her son's] friends served Mass and found out later the priest was SSPX. Other students who attend and are friends with my son are also telling him this.
Dr. Taylor Marshall verifies this:He [Mr. King] also contracted an irregular/suspended priest without faculties, and hired “trad resistance” faculty while there was no bishop in Fort Worth to check these developments.
https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/400180263452671
Fr. Kramer's comment (https://www.facebook.com/paul.kramer.1023611/posts/741987875846626) on the relevant CFNews article (http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/0795b5dcc10f96c16d54412d9817d6c0-194.html):Brainwashed Catholics still don't get it; There's only one course of action that works: Campos and Econe. No one is bound by obedience to bishops or popes who profess heresy and schismatically enforced fabricated new liturgical rites. As the independent traditional priest, the late Fr. Paul Wickens said so many times: "Don't walk, run away from the Novus Ordo."
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One reason this Francis-appointee wolf banned FMC's TLM after just a month at the job is because, according to ex-FMC «ex officio» board member Dr. Taylor Marshall, FMC's Dr. Dudleyclaimed in his Year of Faith lecture that Catholic professors have the duty to teach young people that Vatican 2 is not a valid Council (he also endorsed other “resistance” positions regarding the Novus Ordo, John Paul II, etc.).
You can read Dr. Dudley's lecture here: http://fishermore.edu/.../uploads/Dudley-Faith-in-Europe.pdf
Another reason I've been able to verify from a mother of an FMC student is that their current chaplain is SSPX, since the FSSP one left months ago:One of his [her son's] friends served Mass and found out later the priest was SSPX. Other students who attend and are friends with my son are also telling him this.
Dr. Taylor Marshall verifies this:He [Mr. King] also contracted an irregular/suspended priest without faculties, and hired “trad resistance” faculty while there was no bishop in Fort Worth to check these developments.
https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/400180263452671
Fr. Kramer's comment (https://www.facebook.com/paul.kramer.1023611/posts/741987875846626) on the relevant CFNews article (http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/0795b5dcc10f96c16d54412d9817d6c0-194.html):Brainwashed Catholics still don't get it; There's only one course of action that works: Campos and Econe. No one is bound by obedience to bishops or popes who profess heresy and schismatically enforced fabricated new liturgical rites. As the independent traditional priest, the late Fr. Paul Wickens said so many times: "Don't walk, run away from the Novus Ordo."
Dr. Dudley's lecture has been removed. Guess they are out and about being busy scrubbing their website! We have seen this before, haven't we?
Was it just there today or yesterday?
What a nightmare.
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Just so. This is a situation where one side has been doing its damnedest to play strictly by Newchurch rules and the other side—the side holding all the marbles as well as the exclusive right to write and rewrite the rules at will—laughs loudly at the first side's cluelessness.
And are you surprised? Satan always laughs at people's foolishness.
Very true.
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And are you surprised? Satan always laughs at people's foolishness.
No. I wouldn't have referred to laughter if surprise had entered the picture. I am not, however, prepared to read anyone's mind and conscience. That is to say, whilst I'm sure that Satan is indeed laughing at what's happening in Texas, it's a bit early in the day to declare or imply that Olson or, for that matter, Taylor Marshall and the other robotic, thick-witted Newchurchers who back Olson are Satanic.* Calling them "fundamentally disordered" seems sufficient—and quite bad enough—for now.
_________________
* I am not suggesting that you yourself are doing so. Given the propensity for freelance mind reading hereabouts, however, any time is a good time to preach prudence—especially before each new commenter tries to outdo the last one in broad-jumping to conclusions.
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Dr. Dudley's lecture has been removed.
I found it here (http://fishermore.edu/wp-content/uploads/Dudley-Faith-in-Europe.pdf). I recommend it to all. It's an excellent piece of work: closely argued, carefully reasoned and sourced, analytic, dispassionate—not at all the sort of intemperate and extreme outburst that the sanctimonious fraud Taylor Marshall claims it is.
The passage that has the Newchurchers and the mushy-soft pseudotrads up in arms may be found on page 11. Happy reading.
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I didn't read the entire PDF yet, but I read the offensive part of it. I like it so far and since now it has been noticed by a wide audience, I expect Dr. Dudley to be fired.
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I didn't read the entire PDF yet, but I read the offensive part of it. I like it so far and since now it has been noticed by a wide audience, I expect Dr. Dudley to be fired.
I hope not. Also, all those who disagree with Dr. Dudley have already been fired or quit.
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The lecture by Dr. Dudley is excellent, and it's worth taking the time to read it. I hadn't really understood the emphasis from the pulpit at the NO parishes on peace and luv, without any mention of sin (except for the sin of not being charitable) before reading this. It makes more sense now.
He makes a good case for chucking the Council altogether. I can see why a typical diocesan bishop might have a problem with this, if the bishop has read this.
Dr. Dudley explains his position very well in an articulate but easy to understand manner.
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The lecture by Dr. Dudley is excellent, and it's worth taking the time to read it. I hadn't really understood the emphasis from the pulpit at the NO parishes on peace and luv, without any mention of sin (except for the sin of not being charitable) before reading this. It makes more sense now.
He makes a good case for chucking the Council altogether. I can see why a typical diocesan bishop might have a problem with this, if the bishop has read this.
Dr. Dudley explains his position very well in an articulate but easy to understand manner.
Yes, it was a good lecture.
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Check out Dr. Dudley's FMC page: http://fishermore.edu/faculty/dr-john-a-j-dudley/
He seems to be one of their most accomplished profs! I hope they keep him!
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This would be a good opportunity for interested students to rabblerouse and have demonstrations to let the bidhop in question know how they feel about this situation.
:cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :dwarf: :dwarf: :dwarf: :sign-surrender: :sign-surrender: :drillsergeant: :drillsergeant: :drillsergeant: :light-saber: :light-saber: :light-saber: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :jumping2: :jumping2: :jumping2: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :heretic: :heretic: :heretic: :soapbox: :soapbox: :cussing: :cussing: :cussing: :geezer: :geezer: :geezer: :clown: :clown: :boxer: :boxer: :boxer: :smile: :smile: :faint: :faint: :judge: :judge: :judge: :dwarf: :dwarf: :dwarf: :idea: :idea:
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I think that this is a good example of why good Catholics cannot remain obedient to Rome. Rome has lost the Faith. They are sanctioning an illegal and irreverant rite, and they are teaching heresy. Obedience under these circuмstances has highly predictable results.
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I think that this is a good example of why good Catholics cannot remain obedient to Rome. Rome has lost the Faith. They are sanctioning an illegal and irreverant rite, and they are teaching heresy. Obedience under these circuмstances has highly predictable results.
Not only the circuмstances of this particular incident, but the substance Dr. Dudley's paper, seem to suggest exactly that. Strange that he does not draw the conclusion himself. I would not say that he does not see the matter clearly, however. His reluctance stems neither from cowardice nor from dim wits, but from humility in the face of fate. He recognizes that it has not fallen to his lot to be the one who lights the fuse which ignites the conflagration. It is not his task to make explicit that which remains tenuously implicit, but he has brought the matter to the very edge of eruption.
There is an elephant in the room, and someday someone will yank on its trunk.
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Here was the ruse perpetrated by Benedict XVI.
With the Indult, the Tridentine Mass was forbidden except where allowed by the Ordinary.
With the Motu, it was allowed except where forbidden by the Ordinary.
So with a little bit of semantics, Benedict XVI pretended to be the great champion and liberator of the Tridentine Mass. And many fell for this, considering him to be sympathetic with Tradition.
So that's why Father Kramer pines for the return of Benedict, despite the fact that his theology does not differ in any substantial way from that of Francis. Francis is just more bold and bumbling about it. Benedict was more subtle and can say things in typical modernist fashion, where it can be at once considered orthodox and heretical.
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Dr. Dudley's lecture has been removed. Guess they are out and about being busy scrubbing their website! We have seen this before, haven't we?
Was it just there today or yesterday?
What a nightmare.
Dr. Dudley's lecture is still on the website. The direct link is http://fishermore.edu/wp-content/uploads/Dudley-Faith-in-Europe.pdf.
If you have trouble with that link, go to the following link and click on it through that page.
http://fishermore.edu/guest-speakers-fisher-college/
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More on Bishop Olsen:
Who Is Bishop Michael Olson?
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/348-who-is-bishop-michael-olson
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More on Bishop Olsen:
Who Is Bishop Michael Olson?
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/348-who-is-bishop-michael-olson
So I'm just going to come out and say it: I think this guy is ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ.
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I don't know what his sɛҳuąƖ improprieties may be, but I will agree that his photos do not make him look manly.
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Does anyone know of any updates on this, besides what is available on the college website?
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.
Imagine the students in the school, who have directed their efforts for years to go there, and done fundraisers and promoted a positive image, now facing this.
This bishop should be strung up on the nearest yard arm like the British Navy used to do in saner days.
Or give him a millstone necklace and take him out for a one-way cruise.
Problem solved.
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Dr. Dudley's lecture has been removed. Guess they are out and about being busy scrubbing their website! We have seen this before, haven't we?
Luckily, I have a backup here (http://moerwiki.us.to/misc/Res%20pro%20Deo/Other%20Docuмents/FMC%27s%20Dr.%20Dudley%27s%20%22controversial%22%20%c2%abFaith%20in%20Europe%c2%bb%20lecture.pdf).
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Does anyone know of any updates on this, besides what is available on the college website?
According to the locals, and friends of mine who have family there, FMC's bigger struggle may be finding sufficient funding to keep going after this semester.
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Does anyone know of any updates on this, besides what is available on the college website?
According to the locals, and friends of mine who have family there, FMC's bigger struggle may be finding sufficient funding to keep going after this semester.
Thanks for the update. I guess that it was inevitable. Like a battered wife who says "I want to go back and live with him, without doing any of the immoral things that he tells me to do, despite the fact that he will continually tell me to do immoral things, and beat me."
The conciliar church, having shirked its responsibility to provide an orthodox liturgy and orthodox teachings, has voluntarily given up its authority over traditional Catholics. Just like the evil man has no authority to force his wife to do immoral things, the modernists have no authority to force this school to celebrate an evil rite. As long as conservative Catholics keep trying to reconcile tradition with modernism, they will continue to suffer these frustrations.
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Sometimes. I wish their oppression of the Faith wasn't so wholly apparent.
I guess I just have to suck it up and officially agree totally with Archbishop Lefebvre. Rome has lost the faith...
Will the real catholic bishops please stand up?? Looks like we are going to need you...
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What has been the reactin of the students? :really-mad2:? :nunchaku:? :cheers:? :pray:? :cry:?
If the students are apathetic then all our complaining won't do much good. The students have to want this. They have to fight for it. If they don't push for it then it will be gone forever.
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What has been the reactin of the students? :really-mad2:? :nunchaku:? :cheers:? :pray:? :cry:?
If the students are apathetic then all our complaining won't do much good. The students have to want this. They have to fight for it. If they don't push for it then it will be gone forever.
From what I have observed and been told, student reaction has been mixed. Some are fighting to keep the college open. Others have already planned or executed an exit strategy from the college.
One of the issues, I have seen, is that a portion of the college's base is concerned with the perceived R&R direction taken by the college over the past year. Thus some of the backlash has come from parents who are traditionalist but averse to R&R. The combination of Dr Dudley's lecture and Fr Gruner's appearance has led parents to take another look at trad-friendly conservative alternatives such as Christendom, TAC or Our Lady Seat of Wisdom. Thus to some degree I suspect R&R efforts to publicly brand Bishop Olsen anti-TLM may have backfired.
Is there sufficient interest among R&R to replace the non-R&R departures?
The largest R&R group in the United States is the SSPX, who already have a college at St Mary, Kansas. FMC is regionally accredited, but St Mary College is better established and supported among the SSPX.
As for the Resistance, Mgr Williamson has for the past how many years discouraged young women from pursuing higher education. So the R&R market is somewhat limited in the U.S., as far as I can tell.
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What has been the reactin of the students? :really-mad2:? :nunchaku:? :cheers:? :pray:? :cry:?
If the students are apathetic then all our complaining won't do much good. The students have to want this. They have to fight for it. If they don't push for it then it will be gone forever.
From what I have observed and been told, student reaction has been mixed. Some are fighting to keep the college open. Others have already planned or executed an exit strategy from the college.
One of the issues, I have seen, is that a portion of the college's base is concerned with the perceived R&R direction taken by the college over the past year. Thus some of the backlash has come from parents who are traditionalist but averse to R&R. The combination of Dr Dudley's lecture and Fr Gruner's appearance has led parents to take another look at trad-friendly conservative alternatives such as Christendom, TAC or Our Lady Seat of Wisdom. Thus to some degree I suspect R&R efforts to publicly brand Bishop Olsen anti-TLM may have backfired.
Is there sufficient interest among R&R to replace the non-R&R departures?
The largest R&R group in the United States is the SSPX, who already have a college at St Mary, Kansas. FMC is regionally accredited, but St Mary College is better established and supported among the SSPX.
As for the Resistance, Mgr Williamson has for the past how many years discouraged young women from pursuing higher education. So the R&R market is somewhat limited in the U.S., as far as I can tell.
Are the students doing anything to bring back the TLM? Protests? Demonstrations? Letters and petitions?
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Are the students doing anything to bring back the TLM? Protests? Demonstrations? Letters and petitions?
That I do not know.
None of the students with whom I am connected are R&R sympathizers. Therefore they have either left or intend to leave at the end of this semester, regardless of whether or not FMC keeps going next year.
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We could sit here and complain but it is the students who have to act. If teh students dont do anything then it may be because they don't care. What a shame.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Let the college close and join the ranks of the dusty forgotten.
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We could sit here and complain but it is the students who have to act. If teh students dont do anything then it may be because they don't care. What a shame.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Given the nature of this controversy there appears to be students and parents on both sides of the spectrum. Of course those who are R&R are more likely to act to save the college, while those who are not R&R are more likely to have formulated and executed an exit strategy.
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Tradition and Conciliarism are mutually exclusive. Each one denying the other's right to exist. It goes without saying which is novelty and which is Catholic.
There is little to no hope of surviving under the apostate Conciliar prelates who now have papal approval and examples of eliminating the restorationists.
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Let the college close and join the ranks of the dusty forgotten.
That may well happen, whatever anyone's hopes or desires may be. Still, it's not an outcome I for one would applaud. The place was set up by eminent Catholic scholars who wished to put into active effect Saint John Bosco's beliefs and attitudes regarding liberal arts education, and its aim was to attract the very best, the most serious students and to make them something akin to what Paul speaks of in the epistle for Easter Sunday: new leaven for a decayed and collapsing institutional Church.
I certainly grant that had the college's founders and present masters been true R&R Trads instead of Reform of the Reform types, the college and its students wouldn't be in the present pickle.* That fact could hardly be plainer. But the present brouhaha over Dr. Dudley's excellent and thoroughly orthodox address demonstrates that people who work at emulating the saints are rather more likely to find themselves on the road back to the True Faith in its fullness than to Humble Frank's Open-All-Hours Vatican Cafeteria. Both the conciliar numbskulls and the avowed enemies of Tradition, having seen what the likely destination is and fearing that "wreckovation" won't work, are doing at Fisher More what they do best everywhere: demolition.
Puritans masquerading as Trads like to keep our numbers small, whatever they may say to the contrary. For true Trads, however, the cry will always be "the more the merrier." That's why I'd love to see Fisher More survive and why I'll lament its passing.
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*They'd probably still be in a pickle, of course, but it would be a different one.
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Let the college close and join the ranks of the dusty forgotten.
That may well happen, whatever anyone's hopes or desires may be. Still, it's not an outcome I for one would applaud. The place was set up by eminent Catholic scholars who wished to put into active effect Saint John Bosco's beliefs and attitudes regarding liberal arts education, and its aim was to attract the very best, the most serious students and to make them something akin to what Paul speaks of in the epistle for Easter Sunday: new leaven for a decayed and collapsing institutional Church.
I certainly grant that had the college's founders and present masters been true R&R Trads instead of Reform of the Reform types, the college and its students wouldn't be in the present pickle.* That fact could hardly be plainer. But the present brouhaha over Dr. Dudley's excellent and thoroughly orthodox address demonstrates that people who work at emulating the saints are rather more likely to find themselves on the road back to the True Faith in its fullness than to Humble Frank's Open-All-Hours Vatican Cafeteria. Both the conciliar numbskulls and the avowed enemies of Tradition, having seen what the likely destination is and fearing that "wreckovation" won't work, are doing at Fisher More what they do best everywhere: demolition.
Puritans masquerading as Trads like to keep our numbers small, whatever they may say to the contrary. For true Trads, however, the cry will always be "the more the merrier." That's why I'd love to see Fisher More survive and why I'll lament its passing.
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*They'd probably still be in a pickle, of course, but it would be a different one.
Well, what was started and what we ended up with are two different things.
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Well, what was started and what we ended up with are two different things.
To speak of "ending up" is premature. The present plateau, shall we call it, is a situation where those who are moving toward the Traditional Faith are under attack. I don't expect things to "end up" well for them, but it's not for any lack of trying on their part.
There is a dire shortage of genuine Catholic institutions of higher learning. Unless one wishes to go the TradGuy20 route and trade in all the books for barbells and workout gear, dismissive indifference to the plight of people who are, whether they yet realize it or not, inexorably moving in our direction is inappropriate.
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Well, what was started and what we ended up with are two different things.
To speak of "ending up" is premature. The present plateau, shall we call it, is a situation where those who are moving toward the Traditional Faith are under attack. I don't expect things to "end up" well for them, but it's not for any lack of trying on their part.
Claudel, I hope the best for this college but must wonder why people still spend so much more for a place that may actually be more of a spiritual danger than a secular college. In this current social climate, I would encourage a state school to a novus ordo school.