Author Topic: Divine Mercy: Traditional Opinion? (Read 11189 times)

Caminus · « **Reply #60 on:** April 15, 2010, 01:04:09 PM »

Quote

I understand your point and I agree with it; but I believe you are referring to the application of mercy and justice

You are trying to force to into making a dogmatic statement when it could just as easily be understood as referring to the manifestation of this particular attribute towards us. There are places where the Saints and Scripture extol His Divine Mercy. I think that's all she was saying, she was magnifying this particular attribute. She wasn't writing a dogmatic treatise. You are ignoring this fact.

SJB · « **Reply #61 on:** April 15, 2010, 01:08:48 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Quote
I understand your point and I agree with it; but I believe you are referring to the application of mercy and justice

You are trying to force to into making a dogmatic statement when it could just as easily be understood as referring to the manifestation of this particular attribute towards us. There are places where the Saints and Scripture extol His Divine Mercy. I think that's all she was saying, she was magnifying this particular attribute. She wasn't writing a dogmatic treatise. You are ignoring this fact.

Quote from: Sr. Faustina relating what God said to her

301 Proclaim that mercy is the greatest attribute of God.

And remember, she is supposed to be reporting what God said to her anyway, so it is God who made this mistake, if we are to believe her.

Caminus · « **Reply #62 on:** April 15, 2010, 01:12:45 PM »

You said that already. And what's with the titles, are those supposed to be her headings or were those supposed to be the words of Jesus?

SJB · « **Reply #63 on:** April 15, 2010, 01:33:29 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

You said that already. And what's with the titles, are those supposed to be her headings or were those supposed to be the words of Jesus?

I gave you the link.

The bolded is what Our Lord supposedly revealed to her. The Bolded is NOT a "title".

Alexandria · « **Reply #64 on:** April 15, 2010, 02:01:36 PM »

One of my favorite things about this Divine Mercy is the novena. Our Lord allegedly used the words "heretics and schismatics" for the Fifth Day. They've changed that to "Today bring to Me the souls of those who have separated themselves from My Church..." and there's a little note at the end which says that "He [Our Lord] spoke to Blessed Faustina within the context of her times...".

So much for omniscience.

umblehay anmay · « **Reply #65 on:** April 23, 2010, 07:19:54 AM »

Quote from: sedetrad

I'm really surprised that a hipee priest hasn't had a marijuana mass to emphasize luv and world peace. The pot could be used as incense to get all the congregants in a good happy mood. I bet their were secret masses of these types in the 60's and 70's.

Would that be the Novus Ordo version of "High Mass"???? :smoke-pot:

Elizabeth · « **Reply #66 on:** April 23, 2010, 09:43:20 AM »

Quote from: umblehay anmay

Quote from: sedetrad
I'm really surprised that a hipee priest hasn't had a marijuana mass to emphasize luv and world peace. The pot could be used as incense to get all the congregants in a good happy mood. I bet their were secret masses of these types in the 60's and 70's.

Would that be the Novus Ordo version of "High Mass"???? :smoke-pot:

Good one dear Humbolt Man! :smoke-pot:

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #67 on:** August 24, 2011, 08:43:51 PM »

I am going to re-direct people to this thread, yet again.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Dubious-Devotions-Mentions-Divine-Mercy

SJB · « **Reply #68 on:** April 14, 2013, 08:41:11 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Caminus
Quote
I understand your point and I agree with it; but I believe you are referring to the application of mercy and justice

You are trying to force to into making a dogmatic statement when it could just as easily be understood as referring to the manifestation of this particular attribute towards us. There are places where the Saints and Scripture extol His Divine Mercy. I think that's all she was saying, she was magnifying this particular attribute. She wasn't writing a dogmatic treatise. You are ignoring this fact.

Quote from: Sr. Faustina relating what God said to her
301 Proclaim that mercy is the greatest attribute of God.

And remember, she is supposed to be reporting what God said to her anyway, so it is God who made this mistake, if we are to believe her.

Bump.

SJB · « **Reply #69 on:** April 14, 2013, 08:51:59 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Thanks SJB (as usual).

Alexandria, the book was unreadable, which is probably how I got my free copy. Also some of the devotional images for Divine Mercy seem unholy to my eyes.

:wink:

SJB · « **Reply #70 on:** April 14, 2013, 09:40:25 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Caminus
I don't see anyone begging continually for God's Justice on them. Do you pray that way or rather do you continually ask for His Mercy?

The fact is that God's infinite Mercy cannot be "greater" that his infinite Justice. I understand your point and I agree with it; but I believe you are referring to the application of mercy and justice; not the attributes of infinite Justice and Mercy, which God IS. Any offense against an infinite God requires an infinite attonement that is not possible for us creatures. God's infinite Mercy is applied to us in a greater manner than his Justice; He requires less attonement than is due, and He applies less Justice than is due Him.

Anyone with any amount of theological knowledge would recognize and reject the formula (God's greatest attribute is His mercy) as unsound. As I said, God "is" His attributes. He does not "have" attributes. This is because God is perfectly simple, not complex, not made of parts. Everything which can be predicated of Him is Him. There are therefore no "greater" and "lesser" attributes of God. He just IS, in all of His infinite perfections.

This is not easy for a created intellect to grasp, but what is easy is to avoid the kind of unsound statements made by Sr. Faustina. And she claimed that she got this untrue claim from God Himself!

If Sr. Faustina had said that to us God's mercy is greater, or that His greatest work is His mercy, or some other such expression which referred to mercy as it is "out of" God, then no problem. The problem arose precisely because she chose to refer to God's "attributes." Attributes are qualities as they exist in the being. This is obvious even in everyday speech - we speak of what a man does, and this is different from his attributes. The latter are the things that he actually is.

To answer other objections, metaphorical language about God (e.g. God's "anger" "repentance" etc.) is one thing. It is another thing entirely to employ technical language inaccurately. And remember, she is supposed to be reporting what God said to her anyway, so it is God who made this mistake, if we are to believe her.