Quote from: SenzaDubbio

Quote from: Stubborn

Again, our knowledge of the popes' sins in no way qualifies any of us to declare him deprived of his office, or never to have been elected.

Wouldn't the knowledge of Bergoglio's deviation from the Faith oblige us to be obedient to Paul IV's Bull?

We *are* being obedient to PPIV's Bull when we follow his first and only explicit instruction to us: "he may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith" - nowhere does he instruct us or otherwise tell us that we are permitted to do any thing other than contradict him - certainly he does not instruct us that we are to declare the pope to be deprived of his office, or never to have been elected.

THAT would make Pope Paul IV a stupid fool, because then what would there be to stop his enemies and disgruntled subjects from proclaiming that he and all future popes have deviated from the faith therefore the Chair is Vacant?

And I ask again, "Well, it appears that *every* priest, nun, deacon, bishop (even one acting as an archbishop, patriarch or primate), cardinal of the Roman Church, or a legate (as mentioned above), and even the Roman Pontiff have deviated from the Catholic faith and fallen into heresy - so according to your reasoning and that of other SVs, why is only the pope not a pope?

After all, it mentions them all right there, so how is it that the priests, bishops, cardinals get a free pass and keep their offices?  

No it does not! What would stop the enemies? The Councils prior to this bull, not to mention Trent that was underway during this time. An enemy is an enemy period. There are no sincere enemies of the True Church. It is a clear sign from God that the individual who manifests heresy or blasphemes God has been delivered up to the devil. Now hopefully this changes, but until it does it is every Catholic's duty to point it out and condemn that individual as a heretic.

I will tell you the same thing, get back to your local Novus Ordo diocese, murmur all you want, back-bite all you want, but do all of this while keeping your mouth shut. Just be content on being a follower sitting in a pew who is disgruntled, but faithful. Knowmsayin?

Quote from: Stubborn

We *are* being obedient to PPIV's Bull when we follow his first and only explicit instruction to us: "he may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith" - nowhere does he instruct us or otherwise tell us that we are permitted to do any thing other than contradict him - certainly he does not instruct us that we are to declare the pope to be deprived of his office, or never to have been elected.

We had talked about this a few posts back.

Well, you asked the question. Can you find anywhere in the Bull where we are told that we are to do anything other than contradict a pope who has deviated from the faith?

Quote from: Stubborn

After all, it mentions them all right there, so how is it that the priests, bishops, cardinals get a free pass and keep their offices?[/i]

I know you asked this before. I didn't see this relevant to our conversation at hand.

The relevancy lies in the fact that SVs use Pope Paul IV's Bull to depose the pope when no where does it ever instruct us to do so, meanwhile it plainly states that his henchmen lose their office yet SVs permit the henchmen to keep their office.

In other words, if the pope loses his office due to his deviation from the faith, then so should every member of the NO clergy - according to SVs reading of the Bull that is.

 
 

Quote from: Stubborn

Well, you asked the question. Can you find anywhere in the Bull where we are told that we are to do anything other than contradict a pope who has deviated from the faith?

No, but we are told that a bishop who deviated from the faith prior to the election, even with the agreement and unanimous consent of all the cardinals, shall be null, legally invalid and void.

Name a NO bishop who has *not* deviated from the faith - there are none.

And again, what does the Bull instruct us to do about it? - aside from contradict him I mean.