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Author Topic: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?  (Read 13391 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
« Reply #135 on: February 10, 2022, 04:29:54 PM »
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    • Anymore to me, it is more amusing than anything I think - like DL saying R&R is a contradiction is amazing.

    NOers and Sedes believe the Church teaches popes are divinely protected so they cannot do harm to the Church, and that  popes are always automatically infallibly safe to follow - this they believe is what the Church teaches, or actually, is what they only say they believe the Church teaches - I do not believe any sede really believes it.

    Instead of them realizing this is NOT what the Church teaches, they determine that popes are not popes based on this heretical teaching.

    But if it was what the Church teaches, then the conciliar popes and the NO and all the other crap of V2 is infallibly safe to follow - this must be. The reason this must be is because so says the Church, whoever disagrees needs to argue with the Church, let her know that she teaches error ----something the sedes say is impossible while their postings reveal that they do not really believe it themselves. Talk about a contradiction, this one's the mother of them all.

    As if that's not enough, the conciliar popes themselves actually, really and truly believe they are always infallibly safe to follow and are divinely protected from doing harm to the Church, just like the sedes - which is why the conciliar popes are eccuмaniacs, doing whatever they can to grant salvation to literally everyone - the more the better. And why wouldn't they since they believe that whatever they do, they're always automatically infallibly safe to follow?

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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #136 on: February 10, 2022, 05:10:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on February 10, 2022, 09:42:46 AM
    I think that sedevacantists want us to obey them, since they believe that there is no Pope.

    Did you get your free crack pipe from O'Biden in the mail?

    Would you say the ugliness of your soul or the density of what passes for your mind is your most charming feature?  Or perhaps your overall joviality?
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #137 on: February 10, 2022, 05:35:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on February 10, 2022, 05:10:19 PM
    Did you get your free crack pipe from O'Biden in the mail?

    Would you say the ugliness of your soul or the density of what passes for your mind is your most charming feature?  Or perhaps your overall joviality?
    Oh Glad, such a way with words
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #138 on: February 10, 2022, 05:40:16 PM »
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #139 on: February 10, 2022, 05:44:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: dxcat40 on February 10, 2022, 12:38:44 PM
    Are you using the condemned proposition from #22 to support your position? Could you clarify for the reader ?

    Yes, because he is an idiot.  Newsflash, I know...
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #140 on: February 10, 2022, 05:46:23 PM »
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    • Scorched earth language
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #141 on: February 10, 2022, 05:52:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on February 10, 2022, 04:51:09 AM
    The reason for the pope/papacy is because God established the position, that's all the reason Catholics need...

    The Church and the Sovereign Pontificate exist because God established them, but answering as you did completely avoids the question of WHY, what is the purpose, the raison d'etre of said institution/position.  Your answer is that of a child, by which I mean no offense to intelligent children.

    God established them, yes.  WHY did He establish them?
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #142 on: February 10, 2022, 05:54:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on February 10, 2022, 05:46:23 PM
    Scorched earth language

    True.  Incurably stupid gets really old, ya know?  
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #143 on: February 11, 2022, 04:29:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on February 10, 2022, 05:52:58 PM
    The Church and the Sovereign Pontificate exist because God established them, but answering as you did completely avoids the question of WHY, what is the purpose, the raison d'etre of said institution/position.  Your answer is that of a child, by which I mean no offense to intelligent children.

    God established them, yes.  WHY did He establish them?
    To be His Vicar, His representative on earth, to feed His sheep, to guide the faithful, to guard, protect and preserve God's kingdom on earth, the Church, and the holy faith. I did not go into that, because being a basic tenet of our faith I thought everyone on this site already knows their elementary catechism, everyone except you apparently - but not to worry, you know it now. Use this new found knowledge well my son. :fryingpan:

     
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #144 on: February 11, 2022, 10:44:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on February 10, 2022, 04:18:12 PM
    Because you profess him to be the Pope, with the full Petrine authority, therefore, we expect you to practice what you profess. We don't believe he is, therefore, when we see others absolutely insisting that he must be Pope, not even just materially, but formally, then it's an error that needs to be addressed.

    It cannot be adequately addressed to satisfy sedevacantists. Because it's not that they (you) really want an answer to the question. You just want to prove our position wrong. Absolutely no other reason. Sedevacantists want their ideology to take over all of tradition, which is why they can't allow R&R to keep existing. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #145 on: February 11, 2022, 11:29:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on February 10, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
    Anymore to me, it is more amusing than anything I think - like DL saying R&R is a contradiction is amazing.

    NOers and Sedes believe the Church teaches popes are divinely protected so they cannot do harm to the Church, and that  popes are always automatically infallibly safe to follow - this they believe is what the Church teaches, or actually, is what they only say they believe the Church teaches - I do not believe any sede really believes it.

    Instead of them realizing this is NOT what the Church teaches, they determine that popes are not popes based on this heretical teaching.

    But if it was what the Church teaches, then the conciliar popes and the NO and all the other crap of V2 is infallibly safe to follow - this must be. The reason this must be is because so says the Church, whoever disagrees needs to argue with the Church, let her know that she teaches error ----something the sedes say is impossible while their postings reveal that they do not really believe it themselves. Talk about a contradiction, this one's the mother of them all.

    As if that's not enough, the conciliar popes themselves actually, really and truly believe they are always infallibly safe to follow and are divinely protected from doing harm to the Church, just like the sedes - which is why the conciliar popes are eccuмaniacs, doing whatever they can to grant salvation to literally everyone - the more the better. And why wouldn't they since they believe that whatever they do, they're always automatically infallibly safe to follow?

    A good description of the contradictions inherent in sedevacantism.
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Michael Wilson

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #146 on: February 19, 2022, 05:40:43 PM »
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    • On the subject of the various opinions of theologians (Bellarmine, Suarez, etc) on the "Pope heretic" question: these theologians treated of the question of "The Pope as a private theologian", not in his office as the Pope; Msgr. Lefebvre in his sermon of the 8th of November, 1979, summarizes the study of Dr. Xaverio de Silverira
    https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Apologia/Vol_two/Chapter_40.htm
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    The very objective study of Xaverio de Silverira on this subject demonstrates that a good number of theologians teach that the Pope can be heretical as a private doctor or theologian but not as a teacher of the Universal Church. One must then examine in what measure Pope Paul VI willed to engage in infallibility in the diverse cases where he signed texts close to heresy if not formally heretical.

    Msgr. Lefebvre goes from affirming that the Pope can be heretical as "a private doctor or theologian", to treating of "to what extent Pope Paul VI willed to engage his infallibility....". But this is a jump from one subject to another; in other words, when Paul VI signed the docuмents of Vatican II, the N.O.M. etc., he was not acting as "a private doctor or theologian", but as "the Pope"; the same for his successors and their official various acts. None of the above theologians A.F.A.I.K. Have ever treated of a Pope in his official acts being able to teach heresy or enact measures that would lead souls to error, sin and perdition; this would be contrary to the very institution and purpose for which Christ founded His Church.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #147 on: February 25, 2022, 12:38:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on February 05, 2022, 05:40:00 PM
    You didn't respond to the ENTIRE quotation, which damn well DOES SAY that Christ is united to EVERY MAN FOREVER.
    What JP2 was thinking is certainly much more apparent in his 21 February 1981 message to Asia:
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    In the Holy Spirit, every individual and all people have become, through the Cross and Resurrection of Christ, children of God, partakers in the divine nature and heirs to eternal life.
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #148 on: February 25, 2022, 09:08:31 PM »
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    • Question? Did the pope have a valid ordination for the priesthood?  Was the sacrament of Holy Orders changed, in the new rite? So, I do wonder if the pope has any true sacraments of even consecration.  Says the New Order mass, no sacraments for the people.  Is this a True pope?  Define pope,
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
    « Reply #149 on: February 25, 2022, 09:56:52 PM »
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    • Does this pope say, pray, the true mass?  No.  If he does not say the true mass, can he be considered a true pope? I say no. Is this not abomination desolation? Yes.  The True Mass has the deposits of faith. Does the new order?  Is a pope against faith and morals when they go against the True Mass?
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