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Author Topic: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?  (Read 15516 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2022, 05:34:23 PM »
John of St. Thomas, Cajetan, Suarez, Billot, Billuart, Torquemada, Vittoria, and many other fine theologians opined that a heretic remains pope until such time as the Church declares God has deposed him.

Against these, the sedevacantists hold to a contested interpretation of St. Bellarmine.

Fine and well.

But let’s not pretend the R&R position is irrational or untenable, when theologians as great as those mentioned above held the same position.
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Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2022, 05:54:16 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on February 04, 2022, 05:34:23 PM
But let’s not pretend the R&R position is irrational or untenable, when theologians as great as those mentioned above held the same position.

Let's not pretend it is merely a question of one man's heresy.  The Immaculate Spouse of Christ has been replaced by the Whore of Babylon, yet you want us to say they both occupy the same space and share the same visible head.

None of the theologians you mentioned was even beginning to theorize about a situation like the one we have faced these last several decades.
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Offline mcollier

Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2022, 07:19:11 PM »
Quote from: gladius_veritatis on February 04, 2022, 05:54:16 PM
Let's not pretend it is merely a question of one man's heresy.  The Immaculate Spouse of Christ has been replaced by the Whore of Babylon, yet you want us to say they both occupy the same space and share the same visible head.

None of the theologians you mentioned was even beginning to theorize about a situation like the one we have faced these last several decades.
Not the position. The head of the Conciliar church is not necessarily the same as the person of the pope who is the visible head of the universal Church. 

Also the Catholic Church is indefectible so the Conciliar church does NOT share the same space as the Conciliar church or (Antichurch). The members of the Church that have materially or formally joined with the Conciliar church do not represent “the Church”. Their status as belonging to the church varies from case to case, but the fact remains that the theologians have not settled the question of what happens in the case of a heretical pope. 
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Offline Meg

Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2022, 08:00:17 PM »
Quote from: TKGS on February 04, 2022, 04:50:57 PM
No.  It's you who doesn't "get it".  There's a difference between a "bad pope" and a "heretic pope". 

I'm pretty sure that this is an ongoing question or issue, and has been for quite some time. It's not new. Francis had heretical predecessors too.

Sedevacantists hardy ever bring up the actual heresy that the popes are guilty of - which is Modernism. I don't understand why they don't cite the actual cause of heresy, since the heresy has been around for over 100 years. Pope St. Pius X warned about it in his time, over a hundred years ago. 
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Offline Incredulous

Re: Feb 2nd 2022, The Day RnR Admit Antipope Francis is Not in the Church?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2022, 08:19:44 PM »
Quote from: Matthew on February 04, 2022, 04:38:03 PM
Don't you get it? This latest newsflash changes nothing. 10 years ago we had a bad Pope. Yesterday we had a bad Pope. We still have a bad Pope. What of it?
I'm going to keep on keeping the Faith in my lifeboat chapel. No change. No news.

That's why Sedes LOVE sites like NovusOrdoWatch and Traditio. They wait with bated breath for any new heresy from Rome, so they can pounce on it and act like "Now you non-Sedes have to come over to our side!!!"

No, we don't.
Francis fits the definition of an anti-pope.  He's technically still vying for the Seat, since Benedict claims to still hold partial office.

The precedence is Antacletus II, anti-pope of 1130.    So you can say he's the "Pope"... and pray for him.   Mother Mary described him as "worm ridden".

St. Francis of Assisi described him as a "non canonically elected destroyer".  

He will go down in history with the name of "Pope" and with the prefix, "anti" for eternity.
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