Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: FDS: Feeney Derangement Syndrome  (Read 3361 times)

1 Member and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: FDS: Feeney Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #105 on: Yesterday at 09:17:04 PM »
I want to share with all of you the glory of God, because it is extraordinary and because I need to give Him what He is owed.

At first, I was frustrated and angry by your arguments, thinking them completely stupid and beneath me. Then, through learning how to counter those arguments, I became more adept at moral theology and at interpretating Church teachings. I found original ways to think about the subject of baptism of desire that most people would never have thought of. And finally, now, my understanding has reached the point where I can see fully the glory of God in the true Church Doctrine.

I no longer believe in baptism of desire just because I am obeying the Church. I now understand perfectly, fully, how important that Church teaching is.

May God bless you all, give you an edifying life and may you die in a state of grace.
10/10 ragebait :popcorn:

Offline OABrownson1876

  • Supporter
Re: FDS: Feeney Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #106 on: Yesterday at 09:21:17 PM »
It is only sufficient if it's literally impossible for you to get baptized otherwise. It is only sufficient when priests DENY baptism to you, quoting Church teachings that say to not baptize adults too soon, because priests knew that desire for baptism would be enough even in the case they died.

Church doctrine teaches that it is never too late to repent.
Imagine, if someone wants to repent and to convert to Christianity, that they possess true and perfect contrition of their past sins, but they are about to be executed and they do not have the time to get baptized. Why would God let them go to hell?

If baptism of desire didn't exist, then it would be too late, God would damn them to hell because they didn't repent sooner. That makes no sense.

There is another reason why Trent council says "OR" and not "AND". If being saved required both a desire for baptism and baptism, then it would be impossible for newborns (who cannot desire baptism) to be saved. How do you explain that?
The reason priests were desperate to baptize newborns is because they know that newborns cannot be saved by a desire for baptism. That's the whole reason parents who do not baptize their children are gravely sinning.

It is clear that from a theological point of view baptism of desire is superior to its absence. The doctrine is cleaner, more self-consistent.

Confession is the same. If no priest can reach you, you get absolution if you have perfect contrition. But what kind of Catholic with perfect contrition would refuse to get a confession ASAP if they could do it?

For baptism it is the same.
A perfect act of contrition only applies to the baptized.  One must be a member of the Church to make a perfect act of contrition in the sacramental sense. Just like a man getting ordained.  If an unbaptized man is ordained, he is a non-priest, because baptism is the janua sacramentorum, the door of the sacraments. No baptism, no sacramental life, and it does not matter who you are.

And "sacramental life" is the key phrase because the "life" of the sacraments is sanctifying grace. But I cannot have the life of the sacraments without having the "life-giving" sacrament, baptism.  Case in point: If Larry marries Barbara because she is a traditional Catholic worth ten million dollars, and he agrees to get baptized, he receives the character of baptism, but not the "life" which is sanctifying grace, because his motive is Barbara's money.  Let us say he believes that the Church is the true Church, but his real motive is the money.  It seems to me that he gets the character but not the life, if his primary motive was the money.    


Re: FDS: Feeney Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #107 on: Yesterday at 09:36:58 PM »
They are at least materially heterodox, something distinct from heretical.
What is "materially heterodox"?  Is there a "formal heterodox"?

Offline OABrownson1876

  • Supporter
Re: FDS: Feeney Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #108 on: Yesterday at 09:43:03 PM »
What is "materially heterodox"?  Is there a "formal heterodox"?
Material heterodoxy is in the intellect. Formal heterodoxy is in the will.  Before the definition of the Immaculate Conception there were a number of Catholic theologians who did not hold the opinion of Mary's Immaculate Conception - this was materially heterodox.  If a theologian today holds this position, he is formally heterodox because he willfully rejects a doctrine which the Church has formally defined.

I have had priests give me Holy Communion knowing full well that I support Fr. Feeney because they believed that my "error" was only material, not formal.  I have had them say, "Oh Bryan, I will give you Holy Communion even though you believe Fr. Feeney because you just do not know any better." 

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: FDS: Feeney Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #109 on: Yesterday at 10:45:34 PM »
What is "materially heterodox"?  Is there a "formal heterodox"?
You’re a priest and you don’t know these terms?  ??