bernie, you sound a little like Benedict. The flippancy with which Hoffman handles Fatima is telling of his spiritual well-being. He'd rather be a hip, contrarian journalist than a pious catholic.
You are now passing judgment on not only me, but Hoffman. Why? Because I, (and Hoffman?) don't place Fatima at the head of my list of what it means to be Catholic? Because I (and Hoffman?) disagree with the SSPX party line and rosary crusade stunt? It has NEVER been incuмbent upon a Catholic to believe in ANY private revelation, including Fatima, throughout the entire history of the Church. And here you, act as though I (and another?) are less than Catholic because of my stance on Fatima. Pride and a sanctimonious attitude...two things that turn me off the most in "Traditional" Catholic behavior.
One can be a devout, pious and orthodox Catholic without lording it over everyone else...particularly those Catholics who have yet to realize and understand what we have lost since Vatican II...the truths of the Catholic faith and the importance of tradition.
But the events at Fatima can be multi-layered and not simplistically viewed. IMO - people place too great an emphasis on attempting to rectify the obvious issues of Vatican II by worldly means, solely as if the human species is equipped to handle anything thrown its way by purely physical means.
The battle is not being waged by Temporal powers solely - but by Spiritual powers as well.
The battle is not being waged only by
temporal powers but
primarily by
spiritual powers.
This is such an important theme. Books could be written on this alone. It is by
our cooperation with God's grace that we are sanctified, and pulled out of the
morass of evil that is our fallen world of sin and its effects. Everyone receives
God's grace, but anyone can choose to reject it. This is even true of the Pope,
which is something the sedes seem to miss.
And it is our penchant for complying with the
unclean spirit of Vatican II that
is a corroboration with the DEVIL, in
a mock imitation of what we
should be doing towards God and His grace, not toward the DEVIL and his perdition!
We need to think beyond the external and instead of worrying about who lords over whom - understand that it is the Mother of GOD who has made the request. Now certainly, no one here is going to say - every Catholic is required to Pray the Holy Rosary or risk excommunication. Or to attend Holy Mass on the First Saturday of Five consecutive months or out you go.
I am amused by the mentality of those who are quick to say what isn't required in order to save one's soul and the souls of others. But then I read accounts of Saints like the Cure of Ars, who slept on Cold Stone floors and who cooked elaborate meals (and he was by all accounts a gifted chef), but himself would eat a potato and drink only water.
Make that: "... he would eat a potato, often times a
moldy potato, and drink
only water."
And St. Patrick -- people like to marvel at his miracles, but nobody is interested in
the
penances he practiced voluntarily: penances like taking an ice bath
before going to bed, or for his meals a slice of toast wasn't sufficient for him - he
chose to eat a BURNT slice of toast.
All of the great saints, all throughout history, without exception, worked miracles
precisely because God was pleased with their voluntary penances.
So, is it the Catholic way to let someone ELSE do the penances? Certainly, that's
the Protestant way. Jesus did the "work" and we enjoy the benefits.
You see - it isn't in what we fail to do that earns merit and grace - but rather in what we do that we aren't required to do in emulating Our Lord - who didn't have to suffer and die in the manner in which he did to save us - but instead chose to.
This is such an excellent point, Malleus! Penances that we are
not required to do
are the most pleasing to God; penances we take on
voluntarily. And in regards to Our Lord, when we realize that every single wound He received
in His Passion, each lash at the scourging, each thorn in His crown, each blow to
his face, each nail in His hands and feet -- none of these things had to harm Him,
for His body was not inherently subject to injury. It was
impassible, like the
body of Adam was before the fall. It was evidenced as so at key points when, for example, the crowd was about to stone Him and he walked through their midst
without them being able to restrain Him. Why? It was not yet His "time." He
walked on the water because His body was not subject to injury by drowning.
Our Lord did not suffer because they tortured Him, but rather because He
ALLOWED their torture to affect Him that way. This realization takes His Passion to
a whole new level of awareness. He chose to suffer each injury to make
reparation for our sins. They were not His sins, but ours. And it is our own
selfishness by which we do not want to take any part in His voluntary penances.
As if hanging on the Cross for 3 hours when He could have just climbed down by
an act of His will isn't enough. Not a single nail could have injured His sacred
hands if He had not willed it so. Can you even imagine lying there on the cross,
and DESIRING the nails to injure your hands if you did not HAVE to endure it?
And Our Blessed Mother stood there in silence, in FULL KNOWLEDGE of what
was going on, FULLY AWARE that Her Son had the power to stop this absurd
blasphemy against the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, and more than that.
She also knew that all She had to do was to utter one, single word of petition
that He stop this scene, and He would have complied, immediately, with Her
request! She had the power to restrain the will of God. And She has that power
even now. But we, in our pride, our temerity, choose to say, "it's a private
revelation and we do not have to believe it."
What are we made of??????????
Why does the Immaculate Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen of Angels, Queen of Heaven,
House of Gold, Morning Star, Tower of David, Ark of the Covenant, want to have
anything to do with us
worms, with us poor miserable sinners? Why?
So I think that if we do in fact want to rectify what has been destroyed - we need [to have] not only all of the Catholic Church doing what you say makes one a good Catholic - for we all agree that the Sacraments are tantamount - but in addition to same - we all need to do more. How are we to gain the additional graces by doing less than before Vatican II? How are we going to fight both spiritually and temporally by doing less?
Certainly the Blessed Virgin Provided a Miracle - the Miracle of the Sun - witnessed by over 60,000 people with their own eyes. Pope Leo XIII composed the St. Michael the Archangel Prayer, and the Leonine Prayers are said after Holy Mass in addition to [Low] Mass. So how can we as Catholics do more? Each individual can do more. Can I do more? Of course I can. And any Catholic who says they cannot do more is being less than truthful.
The bottom line IMO - is that Catholics today have to do more, not less. Does it mean going to Mass more often? Praying more often? [Fasting more often?]
Performing acts of Charity more often? Keeping from sin more often? Becoming a better Catholic day by day? These are questions that are obvious to answer.
These heresies will end when enough Catholics finally decide to awaken from their spiritual slumber and do more than is required.
Pax
.................................................................................................................
...............................................six months...................................................
.................................................................................................................
Your post, Malleus, gently reminding members of the importance of
Catholics doing penance with the proper intention,
fell apparently
on deaf
ears. Nobody has replied. Why? They couldn't find the thread? Well, maybe.
Other than that, the spirit of the world would be my guess. Catholics see
Protestants and pagans and Jews and Mohammedans and Buddhists and Hindus
and animists and atheists,
all of whom were welcomed to Assisi III, and none of
whom do any penance in the main, but if any do it's with the wrong intention, and
all too many Catholics are jealous. They want the easy life. They got tired of
penance.................. .. Again.
The devil HATES penance done with the proper intention. So when the Church
tells non-Catholics they can be "better," a Hindu can be a better Hindu, and an
atheist a better atheist, without a mention of converting and becoming Catholic
and therefore practicing voluntary penances with the proper intention, the Church
is effectively turning to help the devil.
This is the crux of the Third Secret of
Fatima. The world's Means of Salvation, Holy Mother Church, has become obscure,
and
we no longer have the guiding voice of truth leading us to salvation but an
imposter voice of the DEVIL leading us to HELL. "What do you want to do? TURN BACK THE
CLOCK?" I actually heard this
question asked of me some 15 years ago when I tried to encourage Novus Ordo
parishoners to petition their pastor and their bishop to restore some of the
traditional penances of the Church, like abstinence from meat on Fridays. They
didn't want any part of it. The problem there is, abstinence from meat on Fridays
has never been abrogated. Do you ever hear that explained? In fact, not eating
meat on Fridays is the EASIER thing to do. If you don't do that, according to the
"new rule," you need to substitute some other
equivalent penance. Key
word "equivalent." So if you don't want to give up having your chicken fillet for
lunch and your prime rib for Friday dinner, because you really, really like those
things, then you should find some other penance that would be really, really hard
to do, or maybe really, really, REALLY hard to do, just to be sure it's at LEAST as
hard as the meat thing. Because if it isn't at LEAST as challenging as no meat on
Friday, then the other thing you do, ON FRIDAY, to take its place is INSUFFICIENT.
Nobody likes to be told they have to do penance. The Protestants had a revolt
(which is why they're called PROTEST-ants) because they didn't want to be told
to do penance. That's pretty much the whole thing. No Penance (sacrament of),
no "works" and merits thereof, no Purgatory, and no Papal authority to tell them
otherwise. Now we have the Vatican II revolution, which is the French Revolution
in the Church, a "counter-Syllabus," and a softening toward Protestantism.
You made a good post
6 months ago and nobody has replied.
That looks a whole lot like nobody wants to do penance. Tell me if I'm wrong.
And this very thing is the reason, it seems to me, that there are Catholics alive
today, 95 years after 1917, who bluster at the thought that they should ever pay
one hoot of attention to the Mother of God's message.
"It's not dogma."
"It's a private revelation."
"Leave me alone and let me have my cake and eat it too."
Meanwhile, 600 million babies are aborted SINCE the Pope made the curiously
reticent "consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in 1984" without
mentioning Russia. Volumes could be written on that, too.
Meanwhile, "wars and rumors of wars" (Matt. xxiv. 6) continue unabated. We're
now on the brink of World War III, and Catholics don't want to do penance. And
they most certainly don't want to
hear about it.
This is the justice of God:
Okay, you don't want to do penance with the proper intention?
Therefore, I shall send you a nice penance-package that you can't reject: WWIII.
Let's see if you change your tune, then.
People don't want to think about it, hear about it, or be reminded. Bernadette,
for example, wants no part of thinking about any so-called "Mother of God"
coming on a
stupid cloud in a third world village in a
dirty foreign country nobody
cares about, and she doesn't want to pay any attention to Our Lady's message at
Fatima for the very reason that
it is a message of our need to do penance, with
the proper intention.
So there.
"Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida: for if in Tyre and Sidon
had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in you, they had
long ago done penance in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, it shall
be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.
And thou, Capharnaum, shalt thou be exalted up to heaven ? thou shalt
go down even unto hell. For if in Sodom had been wrought the miracles
that have been wrought in thee, perhaps it had remained unto this day"
(Matt. xi. 21-23).
What manner of miracle was Fatima?
Never before
in the history of the world had such a publicly prophesied
miracle, for a particular place, at a particular date and time, for a particular
purpose, ever been heard of.
Never. All of the miracles of the Bible put
together do not add up to the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, and we have
so-called Catholics who
dare to say they
don't have to believe it.
"Woe to thee." It shall be more tolerable in the day of judgment for
Corozain
and Bethsaida than for you......................
If it will be more tolerable in the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon, and if
Sodom would perhaps have remained to this day had miracles been wrought
in her that had been wrought in Capharnaum, or Corozain or Bethsaida, where
does that leave modern Catholics who scoff at Fatima as a "private revelation"
or that we don't have to pay any attention to it?
The miracles of Capharnaum,
Corozain and Bethsaida don't hold a candle to the Miracle of the Sun.
Here then
would be (hypothetical case only!) the pecking order in hell, according to Our Lord, were He interpreted by due diligence and logical exegesis:
- Tyre and Sidon (least intolerable place in hell)
- Sodom (and Gomorrah - by inference) (lower place in hell, etc.)
- Corozain, Bethsaida and Capharnaum
- Those who mutter, "Fatima is a private revelation and we don't have to believe it."
Is that what modern Catholics in our pride are daring God to bring upon our
heads?
What did the 3 Fatima children do after those apparitions? Were their lives the
same? They had taken to doing the most extreme voluntary penances, with the
intention of making reparation for sins committed against the Immaculate Heart
of Mary, and offering sacrifices for the Holy Father. They never said WHICH
Holy Father. And therefore, the principle holds for every Holy Father that would
come in the future, and for every Catholic who would be born in the future, until
the end of time. We only have this life to do penance. When it's over, it's over.
Forever and ever. Amen.
Et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.This has always been a Catholic doctrine, but it had been forgotten, so Our Lady
came to Fatima to remind us poor, forgetful creatures.
But most of us don't want to be reminded.We don't call Her Our Lady of Sorrows for nothing. She mourns for US! Your post, Malleus, is so good, I'd like to summarize it:
- we miss out by attempting to rectify the obvious issues of Vatican II by worldly means - it is primarily a spiritual battle
- think beyond the external, and instead of worrying about who lords over whom - understand that it is the Mother of GOD who has made the request
- the mentality of those who are quick to point out what
isn't required in order to save one's soul and the souls of others - this does NOT please God
- it's what we do that we
aren't required to do in emulating Our Lord that truly pleases God
Topic: The "Fatima Distraction"? (Read 4760 times)