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Author Topic: Father Malachi Martin  (Read 23493 times)

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Offline SJB

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Father Malachi Martin
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2011, 06:48:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    And yet only a few people questioned it, most others simply flung themselves into accepting it.


    As I pointed out, scores questioned the "exclusive expose" and were banned on site.  Also the person who methodically countered the claims point-by-point had all of his information deleted by Mr. Grasmier.


    So, did you read the docuмents?

    Or just Fr. Martin's books?
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline GertrudetheGreat

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    « Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 09:25:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    I think maybe Gertrude the Great was speaking of reading the docuмents referred to, not Fr. MM's books.


    No, I meant the books.  Have a look at Hostage to the Devil or Windswept House.  They're both heterodox in morals, and Hostage to the Devil is at least erroneous in faith.  Martin actually says that the priest is the one most at risk in an exorcism.  What puerile, absurd, unorthodox, CRAP.  He also carries on in an unorthodox manner about the contest of wills which he insists takes place between the devil and the exorcist.  That's complete codswallop.  He naturalises everything, ironically by pretending to talk about the supernatural.  He was as much a naturalist, probably more so, as JP2.

    Martin is on record confirming what old friends of his are on record asserting, which is that he lost the faith in the 'sixites, specifically in relation to the Person and natures of Our Lord Jesus Christ, as well as the Resurrection.  He said that his fellow Jesuits started avoiding him because of his open heterodoxy.  That might be true, but I'd say it was as much to do with his adultery as anything else.  The man was a walking scandal, a wreck of a priest, and a wreck of a man.

    He described in an interview later that his faith came back when he hit rock-bottom, driving a cab in New York.  Yet he never made any public retraction of his public errors, nor did he ever make any kind of retraction of his assistance of the enemies of the Church at Vatican II.

    In my judgement Martin was certainly guilty of adultery with Kaiser's wife, and he had other girlfriends as well.  He was also demonstratively in the pay of non-Catholics seeking to influence the Council.

    Of none of this did he repent in a way that anybody can verify.  That should raise alarm bells with anybody who knows anything.  But even without that consideration, it remains a public fact that he lost the faith and there is no equally public abjuration of error to undo his heresy.  Therefore he stands as an unrepentant heretic.

    And his books, as far as I have looked through them, are riddled with errors.  They are also obviously works of fantasy.  I don't know how much he actually had an agenda of misleading trads by talking about satanic rituals, with all of the technicolor and juicy detail, rather than the errors and heresies of V2 and the new mass.  Maybe he was just making money by tailoring some paperback trash for a hungry audience which would be uncritical of anything which reinforced their idea that the Vatican had been taken over by evil, as it had.

    Somebody once descibed him as a Walter Mitty.  That seems to me very accurate.  Consecrated a bishop in secret by Pius XII, allowed to read the Third Secret, running about performing dramatic exorcisms, in the know about everything, etc.  It would be hilarious if only so many good people were not so blind about him!


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 09:55:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: GertrudetheGreat
    He described in an interview later that his faith came back when he hit rock-bottom, driving a cab in New York.  Yet he never made any public retraction of his public errors, nor did he ever make any kind of retraction of his assistance of the enemies of the Church at Vatican II.


    Wouldn't exposing the evils of Vatican II have been enough to show he repented?

    Quote
    In my judgement Martin was certainly guilty of adultery with Kaiser's wife, and he had other girlfriends as well.  He was also demonstratively in the pay of non-Catholics seeking to influence the Council.


    "In my judgement" basically means "in my opinion". I'm asking for facts, not opinions. Unless you or someone else can prove to me that he was guilty of adultery, I can't believe it, and surely you can underdstand why.

    Quote
    And his books, as far as I have looked through them, are riddled with errors.  They are also obviously works of fantasy.  I don't know how much he actually had an agenda of misleading trads by talking about satanic rituals, with all of the technicolor and juicy detail,


    No, I don't doubt for a second that there were satanic rituals that took place during Vatican II. As for his writings, he said they were 90% fact and 10% fiction.

    Quote
    rather than the errors and heresies of V2 and the new mass.


    First of all, he talked about that in his interviews that can be listened to on YouTube. In his writings, however, he focused on what went on behind the closed doors of Vatican II. If you really believe that Freemasons infiltrated the Vatican then I don't know why you have such a hard time believing that there were satanic rituals.

    Quote
    Somebody once descibed him as a Walter Mitty.  That seems to me very accurate.  Consecrated a bishop in secret by Pius XII, allowed to read the Third Secret, running about performing dramatic exorcisms, in the know about everything, etc.  It would be hilarious if only so many good people were not so blind about him!


    All of that strays away from my original challenge of people here to prove he was a double agent. So far, all I have received is the link to a biased docuмentation from an uncredible source who didn't even back up his own claims with credible sources. If you ask me, I think all of this talk about him being a double agent and these other claims were put out there by the Vatican in an attempt to ruin his reputaton and credibility so no one would take his claims seriously.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline GertrudetheGreat

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #18 on: December 13, 2011, 10:12:20 PM »
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  • Martin's book "Jesus Now" (1975) had the following on the front cover: "How Jesus has no Past, Will not come Again and in loving actions is Dissolving the Molds of Our Spent Society."

    Now just in case you think that clear heresy was a publisher's literary license (even though Martin never disavowed it), take a look inside and discover the most direct apostasy one could imagine.

    Here's a tid-bit, but I encourage you to buy a copy and see for yourself.
    Quote
    Jesus was taken away, lived a short while, and then died.  A marvellous plot!  A complete stranger posing as Jesus carried off the part about the resurrection.  There was no real resurrection, of course.  It all rather reminds one of the those stories about Hitler being alive and well in Acapulco. P. 166.


    Sickening, isn't it?

    And trust me, that isn't the worst stuff in there.  What he says about the Mother of God is unrepeatable.  If Martin were in reach, I'd rearrange his face.

    What really amazes me is how open Martin's heresy was, and how nobody who defends him seems to know about it.

    Offline roscoe

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #19 on: December 13, 2011, 10:33:37 PM »
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  • Very sorry to hear that Pius XII consecrated Martin as Bp in secret. If it was secret, are U sure it is true?
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline GertrudetheGreat

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #20 on: December 13, 2011, 11:07:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Wouldn't exposing the evils of Vatican II have been enough to show he repented?


    No, of course not.  And he didn't expose the evils of Vatican II.  He pushed his own heretical agenda, which centred around the notion that the Church had failed because it was insufficiently "spiritual" by which he meant it had done a deal with the world (at the time of Constantine!) and had been in decline as a result ever since.  You know, the typical Gnostic/Albigensian/Spiritualist kind of thing.  And as with those predecessors, Martin was fascinated by impurity of all kinds, and it seems, addicted to it as well.  This is why all of Martin's books are staurated with two themes - the occult and impurity.  And it's also why I say that anybody who can't see there's something wrong either doesn't have any Catholic sense or hasn't read his books.


    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    No, I don't doubt for a second that there were satanic rituals that took place during Vatican II.

    So why don't you tell us what evidenced convinced you of this startling claim, and we'll see what we need to produce to convince you of other facts.

    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    So far, all I have received is the link to a biased docuмentation from an uncredible source who didn't even back up his own claims with credible sources.


    I don't understand how anybody can say that if they read Grasmeir's docuмents.  The actual docuмents are there.  

    Offline GertrudetheGreat

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #21 on: December 13, 2011, 11:08:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Very sorry to hear that Pius XII consecrated Martin as Bp in secret. If it was secret, are U sure it is true?


    No, I'm sure it is NOT true, like every other self-aggrandizing claim he made.

    Offline roscoe

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #22 on: December 13, 2011, 11:11:50 PM »
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  • Thank U
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #23 on: December 13, 2011, 11:38:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: GertrudetheGreat


    Martin is on record confirming what old friends of his are on record asserting, which is that he lost the faith in the 'sixites, specifically in relation to the Person and natures of Our Lord Jesus Christ, as well as the Resurrection.  He said that his fellow Jesuits started avoiding him because of his open heterodoxy.  That might be true, but I'd say it was as much to do with his adultery as anything else.  The man was a walking scandal, a wreck of a priest, and a wreck of a man. So far, the accusation of adultery is very murky.  

    I am having some trouble with the idea of Jesuits being offended by rumors of adultery or anyone's hetrodoxy--maybe that is because I have been to a number of events and services at Georgetown University over the years.  They removed all of their crucifixes from the their hospital, etc. etc. Twenty-five years ago the priest's homilies were anti Catholic IMO.

    He described in an interview later that his faith came back when he hit rock-bottom, driving a cab in New York.  Yet he never made any public retraction of his public errors, nor did he ever make any kind of retraction of his assistance of the enemies of the Church at Vatican II. I believe he did, he said he could no longer make excuses for JP2.  He called Paul VI an anti-pope in The Final Conclave. How public would his retraction need to be?  

    In my judgement Martin was certainly guilty of adultery with Kaiser's wife, and he had other girlfriends as well.  He was also demonstratively in the pay of non-Catholics seeking to influence the Council. So you knew him personally?

    This is so at odds with your (justified) policy of thinking the best of people, especially priests!  It is as if another person is writing this.  How do you KNOW he was guilty of adultery and having girlfriends?  

    Of none of this did he repent in a way that anybody can verify.  That should raise alarm bells with anybody who knows anything.  But even without that consideration, it remains a public fact that he lost the faith and there is no equally public abjuration of error to undo his heresy.  Therefore he stands as an unrepentant heretic. Fr. Fiore said he died with the Sacraments.  How can anyone verify what happens in the Confessional? Alarm bells  with anybody who knows anything? Plenty of saints were notorious sinners before they found their way back to God's merciful grace.  They made restitution for those they had harmed, did penance and works of mercy. (I am not calling MM a saint.)  What does the Church require for satisfaction of what MM is being accused of?

    And his books, as far as I have looked through them, are riddled with errors.  They are also obviously works of fantasy.  I don't know how much he actually had an agenda of misleading trads by talking about satanic rituals, with all of the technicolor and juicy detail, rather than the errors and heresies of V2 and the new mass.  Maybe he was just making money by tailoring some paperback trash for a hungry audience which would be uncritical of anything which reinforced their idea that the Vatican had been taken over by evil, as it had. Those who have never seen demonic possession need to be very grateful. The novels would be works of fantasy.  Wouldn't it be logical for an exorcist to be more interested in writing about satanic forces in the Church than errors and heresies?  Not everybody needs to deal with one single aspect of the crisis in the Church, do they?

    Somebody once descibed him as a Walter Mitty.  That seems to me very accurate.  Consecrated a bishop in secret by Pius XII, allowed to read the Third Secret, running about performing dramatic exorcisms, in the know about everything, etc.  It would be hilarious if only so many good people were not so blind about him!
    This is not convincing me of anything, and if I wrote this about some priest I seriously doubt that you would believe me.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #24 on: December 13, 2011, 11:55:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: GertrudetheGreat
    Martin's book "Jesus Now" (1975) had the following on the front cover: "How Jesus has no Past, Will not come Again and in loving actions is Dissolving the Molds of Our Spent Society."

    Now just in case you think that clear heresy was a publisher's literary license (even though Martin never disavowed it), take a look inside and discover the most direct apostasy one could imagine.

    Here's a tid-bit, but I encourage you to buy a copy and see for yourself.
    Quote
    Jesus was taken away, lived a short while, and then died.  A marvellous plot!  A complete stranger posing as Jesus carried off the part about the resurrection.  There was no real resurrection, of course.  It all rather reminds one of the those stories about Hitler being alive and well in Acapulco. P. 166.


    Sickening, isn't it?

    And trust me, that isn't the worst stuff in there.  What he says about the Mother of God is unrepeatable.  If Martin were in reach, I'd rearrange his face.

    What really amazes me is how open Martin's heresy was, and how nobody who defends him seems to know about it.


    What if performing an exorcism knocked some sense into him, made a true believer out of him?  He would not have been the first soul to have a profound conversion as a result of demonic experiences.

    Anyway, just a thought.  By the way, my replies in red are not meant to be abrasive; I just don't understand how to intersperse comments with quotes.


    Offline GertrudetheGreat

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #25 on: December 14, 2011, 12:12:32 AM »
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  • Elizabeth,

    Please read this letter and tell me if you accept that Martin committed adultery.

    http://www.angelqueen.org/articles/martin_docs/van_etten.pdf

    That alone is conclusive evidence, but combined with the various other sources, including of course poor Robert Kaiser, there can be no reasonable doubt.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #26 on: December 14, 2011, 12:46:18 AM »
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  • Hi Gertrudethe Great,,,-thanks for the link.  It's almost 1:45 am so I only skimmed.  I was amazed to find that this was a letter form a priest.  I promise to give it the attention it deserves but at first glance it is very weird.  How can he be "best friends" with a couple he knew for 3 weeks?

    It appears to be a letter to request  a Petition for Nullification of Marraige, but I will read it when less sleepy.

    Offline GertrudetheGreat

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #27 on: December 14, 2011, 12:56:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: GertrudetheGreat


    Martin is on record confirming what old friends of his are on record asserting, which is that he lost the faith in the 'sixites, specifically in relation to the Person and natures of Our Lord Jesus Christ, as well as the Resurrection.  


    OK, forget the fact that all Jesuits were not evil heretics and focus on the fact that he was an open heretic by his own admission.


    Quote from: Elizabeth
    He described in an interview later that his faith came back when he hit rock-bottom, driving a cab in New York.  Yet he never made any public retraction of his public errors, nor did he ever make any kind of retraction of his assistance of the enemies of the Church at Vatican II. I believe he did, he said he could no longer make excuses for JP2.  He called Paul VI an anti-pope in The Final Conclave. How public would his retraction need to be?  


    The supernatural virtue of faith has both spiritual and social effects.  The heresy we are interested in is not the internal sin, but the externally manifested doubts and denials of the faith.  Any exterior manifestation of doubt automatically strips one of membership in the Church.  Martin himself stated in the 1970s that he expressed his doubts openly and it caused other Jesuits to avoid him.

    Quote
    [Wilson] reports you as saying to him, that your Jesuit colleagues were beginning to stay away from you because you overtly spoke in doubt about the central items of faith. They too shared those doubts, but it was sort or normative in that Jesuit culture, not to directly confront.

    Martin: Not to ask questions.

    Rosenberg: Not to ask questions.

    Martin: Not to (unintelligible)

    Rosenberg: Even though they didn't believe in the full divinity of Jesus either, and were you were questioning that, and questioning.

    Martin: I was not, I was not in question to it. I was asking question after question about everything.

    Rosenberg: Yeah.

    Martin: About everything.

    Rosenberg: And it was on that basis that you left. As I've known you for many years...

    Martin: Yes.


    So Wilson's account in his diary is accurate, confirmed by Martin himself.  The other Jesuits might have been heretics too, but they knew it was career-limiting to be that open about it.  And that's why Martin left the Jesuits, he says.  

    So Martin was a non-Catholic then (1965).  His books Jesus Now (1973) and The New Castle (1974) display this lack of faith in its fullness.  Here he is promoting Jesus Now in an interview:

    Quote
    "Jesus is the expression of man's desire for universal truth and harmony." Martin said almost as a teaser to classic theologians, saying he is not quite that blunt in his book. To do that would risk losing the agreement he wants from readers whom he expects to help save the church from itself. "I must bring the people along."

    "I'm not traditional, I'm not heretical." Martin said, reaching down to knead his right calf beneath the steel support. "I've put it too carefully for that."


    That's a heretic, telling us he doesn't believe, but that he has disguised his unbelief in order not to lose people.  But his judgement was bad - his book is certainly heretical, actually, the most blasphemous thing I've ever read.  I do not exaggerate.

    And this is after his "conversion because he was poor, driving a cab" episode.

    So this non-Catholic needed to re-enter the Church.  To do so he would have had to publicly retract his errors (abjuration of error) and make a profession of faith.  This is canonically required, and it is required by the very nature of the Church as a visible unity of those who outwardly profess the faith.

    There is no suggestion, not to say evidence, of this occurring.  He just started chameleonising into a semi-trad.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Father Malachi Martin
    « Reply #28 on: December 14, 2011, 12:59:21 AM »
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  • I couldn't help re-reading it.  

    The author sounds effeminate and gossipy, doing a favor for his nutty friend.  Is this Theology professor correcting the errors of V2?

    Offline GertrudetheGreat

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    « Reply #29 on: December 14, 2011, 02:02:38 AM »
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  • Elizabeth,

    He's an eyewitness providing written testimony to a court.  That's a weighty docuмent, by any standard.

    Fr. Fiore is one of those mysterious characters who appeared out of the blue, and was hailed immediately as a hero of the resistance, yet nobody seems to have any information on what he did from 1962, when he was ordained, until he joined the Fraternity of St. Peter, in the 1990s (or was it later?).  I recall his magical appearance, and I recall being surprised at the praise heaped on this newcomer by people whom one would think would be a little less excited by such an apparition, but I don't recall when this happened.  Even the published obituaries seem strangely silent about his history.  The little I can dig up on him reveals a man whose prime interest was in cooperating with various Protestants in fighting for home-schooling, right-to-life, and against anti-religious forces in general.  All good stuff in itself (although one of his associations, The Religious Roundtable, was essentially ecuмenist, holding an annual prayer breakfast to "pray for America"), but typically naturalistic in focus as is the case with all such Novus-entrapped people.

    Why do people who won't believe other non-traditionalist sources believe what Fr. Fiore says?

    And I am not asserting that Fr. Fiore was a bad man.  I am simply pointing out that he didn't seem to notice the problems in the Church and their real causes for thirty of forty years, so he was hardly a great judge of orthodoxy, or in fact anything else.  He is exactly the type to get taken in by Malachi Martin.

    For some reason Martin's defenders also believe Modernist Jesuits who release things via Yahoo Groups.

    Quote
    The clarification appeared on the Malachi Martin yahoo e-group posted by a member who communicated with Fr. Tom Widner SJ, Secretary for Communication of the US Jesuit Conference, concerning Martin’s status. Father Widner questioned Father O’Keefe – now retired – and he recalled Martin’s receiving a special dispensation relieving him of all his vows except for chastity.
    ...
    I spoke with Fr. Vincent O'Keefe, former vicar general of the Society of Jesus who is now retired. According to Fr. O'Keefe, Malachi Martin was indeed dispensed from his vows of poverty and obedience but not the vow of chastity. At the time Martin requested such dispensation, the Vatican was not dispensing priests who so requested such dispensation from the vow of chastity or celibacy. Fr. O'Keefe pointed out that Martin never married. His obituary in the New York Times, however, points out that Martin lived with a female companion.

    Fr. Widner

    Tom Widner SJ
    Secretary for Communications
    U.S. Jesuit Conference
    1616 P St. N.W., Suite 300
    Washington, D.C. 20036-1420
    202-462-0400
    Fax: 202-328-9212



    Yet for some reason other Modernists who are not recalling something from forty years ago, but have access to the records, are not believed, when they contradict the Jesuits.

    Quote
    Malachi Martin states, and the Holy See will confirm if asked, that "In 1965, Mr. Martin received a dispensation from all privileges and obligations deriving from his vows as a Jesuit and from priestly ordination." [Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, 25 June 1997, Prot. N. 04300/65].

    http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/malachi_martin.htm


    Martin was laicised - in 1965, when his girlfriend, another man's wife, was awaiting him in the USA so that they could get "married."

    But of course Martin, faithless towards his Creator, was hardly going to fulfil his promises to a mere creature, and he broke her heart.