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Author Topic: Father Cekada Dying  (Read 12872 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Father Cekada Dying
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2020, 12:25:22 PM »
Quote from: LeDeg on September 14, 2020, 12:17:51 PM
Sean, the 'de fide' from St Alphonsus defense doesn't work.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 9, 1910, “Limbo,” p. 258: “…St. Thomas and the Schoolmen generally were in conflict with what St. Augustine and other Fathers considered to be de fide [on unbaptized infants suffering the fires of hell]...”
 
St. Cyprian, 254 A.D.: “We… judging and holding it as certain that no one beyond the pale [that is, outside the Church] is able to be baptized…”


Even the go to defender amongst the SSPX stated:

Fr. Jean-Marc Rulleau, Baptism of Desire, p. 43: “The existence of baptism of desire is, then, a truth which, although it has not been defined as a dogma by the Church, is at least proximate to the faith.”

That is not 'de fide'.
 Saint Alphonsus wrote that after Trent defined it. I know Ladislaus takes issue with it arguing that Trent was misinterpreted, but it is much safer to be on the side of Saint Alphonsus. There is not a single theologian post Trent, that I’m aware of, who didn’t believe in BOD/BOB. Remember that they all believed in EENS.
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Offline LeDeg

Re: Father Cekada Dying
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2020, 12:32:19 PM »
Quo Vadis, Trent did not define BOD. 
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Father Cekada Dying
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2020, 12:42:57 PM »
This is from Sean's quote from St. Alphonsus, describing BOD:


Quote
But baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true Baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment.It is called “of wind [flaminis] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost Who is called a wind [flamen].


A relevant question: Isn't that how the Saints of the OT were justified before death?

Stated differently: weren't the OT saints justified by something meeting the definition of an "implicit" baptism of desire?
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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Father Cekada Dying
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2020, 01:10:40 PM »
Quote from: LeDeg on September 14, 2020, 12:32:19 PM
Quo Vadis, Trent did not define BOD.
According to Saint Alphonsus, it did.
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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Father Cekada Dying
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2020, 01:14:42 PM »
Saint Alphonsus: “ Now it is de fide that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam, “de presbytero non baptizato” and of the Council of Trent, session 6, Chapter 4 where it is said that no one can be saved “without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.” ”
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