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Author Topic: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"  (Read 2754 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2022, 07:05:34 AM »
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  • Not so fast.  If a validly ordained priest uses the proper matter, form and intent during a NO ceremony, It is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
    Lots of ifs there....and the farther we move away from the 1960's and 1970's the less likely this happens.  How many Novus Ordo priests are certainly true priests at this point in the game?  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #16 on: August 11, 2022, 07:09:08 AM »
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  • The timing of this thread can not be more perfect.  I was just noticing a picture of Our Lady that my mother-in-law left in the house.  I've always seen it, but just realized this morning that it is an image from Medugorje.  I'm thinking I should remove it, but it is of Our Lady. Should I/How do I do that?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #17 on: August 11, 2022, 07:45:23 AM »
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  • The timing of this thread can not be more perfect.  I was just noticing a picture of Our Lady that my mother-in-law left in the house.  I've always seen it, but just realized this morning that it is an image from Medugorje.  I'm thinking I should remove it, but it is of Our Lady. Should I/How do I do that?

    If it were I, I would remove the actual picture (if it's framed) and burn it.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #18 on: August 11, 2022, 07:46:29 AM »
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  • I don't believe for one minute the devil can alter or manipulate the Body, Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ in a consecrated Host.

    Uhm, you're begging the question that NO hosts are in fact the Body of Christ.

    By the same token, we can't be sure what God will or will not allow.  He allows Satanists to steal and commit sacrileges against the Body of Christ, and permitted the Jєωs and Roman soldiers to perpetrate extreme violence against Christ.  With that said, I would generally agree that it is unlikely that God would allow demons to attack the Body of Christ (they would be natural repelled by the Blessed Sacrament), but the whole point of this is that these "miracles" do not somehow confirm "validity" of the NOM.  If invalid, there would be nothing stopping demons from simulating Eucharistic "miracles".

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #19 on: August 11, 2022, 07:50:15 AM »
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  • The condemned apparitions of Veronica Lueken at Bayside, NY. One of the most ridiculous false apparitions I’ve ever come across.

    Yeah, I didn't bring that one up because I've not seen any convincing "miracles" attributed to those ... just these dumb pictures with light streak on them.  IF those pictures are legit, how hard would it be for the devil to create those optical effects on a picture?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #20 on: August 11, 2022, 07:51:42 AM »
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  • Not so fast.  If a validly ordained priest uses the proper matter, form and intent during a NO ceremony, It is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

    Again, you're begging the question.  You're assuming a validly ordained priest and also assuming that the "NO ceremony" is valid ... which is precisely what's being disputed here.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #21 on: August 12, 2022, 07:14:35 AM »
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  • If it were I, I would remove the actual picture (if it's framed) and burn it.
    I definitely need to get rid of it.  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Cera

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #22 on: August 12, 2022, 03:17:41 PM »
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  • The timing of this thread can not be more perfect.  I was just noticing a picture of Our Lady that my mother-in-law left in the house.  I've always seen it, but just realized this morning that it is an image from Medugorje.  I'm thinking I should remove it, but it is of Our Lady. Should I/How do I do that?
    You might point out to your m-in-law that the Medugorje image does not show feet. Maybe it's only an Irish belief, but I was taught that the enemy gives himself away by his cloven hoofs, so false apparitions do not show the feet. It would be wonderful if she gives it away herself. Pray pray pray.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Histrionics

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #23 on: August 17, 2022, 05:19:44 PM »
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  • Yes, that's a good rule of thumb for sure.

    In general, my main point is that the devil can EASILY simulate nearly every "miracle".  He can work Eucharistic "miracles" through sleight of hand, where he can almost instantly transport and apply some blood ... or even quickly swap out part of the host for human heart muscle.  This would be a trivial operation for the devil.  Heck, in the case of Sister Magdalena of the Cross, the devil even simulated a virgin birth.  He could simulate healings simply by his angelic knowledge of human physiology or else by mechanically supplying for something that's defective.  If someone was a cripple, he could likely repair the damage done to the spinal cord or, worst case, diabolically assist the person in walking.  Devil can even foretell the future.  Apparently he did that through Sister Magdalena also (predicting when a certain person would die).  He can do a lot of highly-educated analysis.  He may see that a certain person has a heart defect and can probably predict to the day when the person will die.  He also has inside knowledge of various events that might be underway, various plots being hatched, including those that he and his minions might be putting into motion, and he can do an analysis regarding the most likely outcome of a confluence of factors that only an angelic intellect could pull off.  He could simulate exorcisms by simply leaving of his own volition or else laying low and going dormant / quiet.  There's almost nothing that he can't simulate.

    Also, we sometimes forget the power of holy water, blessed religious articles (e.g. St. Benedict's crosses,), etc.  Probably one of the first things I'd do to someone who was performing supernatural feats would be to sprinkle / douse them with holy water.  There was a wise older priest who first began to expose Sister Magdalena by using holy water and piercing her with a needle covered with holy water.

    Besides your last point, what do you suggest as a general rule of thumb with evidently no real authority to decide modern cases? Just healthy skepticism?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #24 on: August 17, 2022, 05:33:06 PM »
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  • You might point out to your m-in-law that the Medugorje image does not show feet. Maybe it's only an Irish belief, but I was taught that the enemy gives himself away by his cloven hoofs, so false apparitions do not show the feet. It would be wonderful if she gives it away herself. Pray pray pray.
    The picture is just of her face, but when I do a search online for Our Lady of Medjugore, there are some statues that show her feet.  
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #25 on: August 18, 2022, 06:52:18 AM »
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  • Thanks for supplying this info, Ladislaus.

    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #26 on: August 18, 2022, 06:53:42 AM »
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  • https://eileengeorge.org/2022/08/08/new-jersey-prayer-group/

    My friend was really into this.  Now she is following an exorcist Father James Blount. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #27 on: August 18, 2022, 07:05:45 AM »
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  • It’s not just visionaries, but clergy too with various ministries and conferences. 

    Many con artists using religion to make money and power.  One Protestant recently minister asked his congregation for an expensive watch while preaching.  

    Jesus said spread the gospel.   He didn’t say hold conferences in expensive hotels and charge money to spread the truth and gospel. 

    We are to avoid these false teachers, fortune tellers.  



    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: False "Visions", "Private Revelations", and "Miracles"
    « Reply #28 on: August 18, 2022, 12:41:36 PM »
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  • It’s probably possible it unleashed something diabolical.  

    My husband and I was discussing this topic after it was posted this morning.  A couple of times before we turned to tradition, we went with our friends and my husband didn’t like it for several reasons.  I wonder if you be in trouble for attending these kind of events.  

    May God bless you and keep you