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Author Topic: Faith and movement - Salvation and the Catholic Church  (Read 1115 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Faith and movement - Salvation and the Catholic Church
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2023, 11:33:23 AM »
Quote from: SolHero on February 08, 2023, 11:13:06 AM
Thank you all for the encyclical and book references. That quote from Fr Wathen is spot on.

I am the head of my family and I need to protect those under my care from definitions or "exceptions" to teachings disguised as traditional that actually chip away at the the understanding of Catholic dogma.
There are very few trad priests who preach the literal meaning of the dogma EENS, they always add exceptions that ultimately reduces the dogma "to a meaningless formula" as PPXII said. Fr. Wathen was not one of them and it makes a noticeable difference in all of his sermons and talks - even the ones that have nothing whatsoever to do with that dogma.

Here are about 150 good, traditional audio Catholic sermons, interviews and talks given by Fr. Wathen.  

Back in the early 70s - 80s, a few times a week for about an hour or so, my mom got us all together in the living room to learn our faith, most often by listening to cassette tapes from priests' sermons and talks, like in the link above.  
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Faith and movement - Salvation and the Catholic Church
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2023, 11:46:52 AM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan on February 07, 2023, 11:42:55 PM
In Mystici Corporis Christi, Pius XII:

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Curious that the pope 1) describes them as in a state of uncertain salvation rather than certain reprobation and 2) having a "certain relationship" with the Church. 
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I think that explicit faith (even if never externalized) in the Incarnation and Trinity is probably necessary for salvation, and I don't get the impression Pius XII is referring to infidels in the passage above. But as far as membership in the Church goes, theologians since Bellarmine have distinguished between membership in re and membership in voto. Pius XII appears to endorse that distinction here in his encyclical, or if not endorse it at least subtly encourage it.  Compare this paragraph to the paragraph earlier in the encyclical, where the pope uses the Latin reapse to describe those who are actually (in re) members. 

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The word "actually" is not being used as a corrective or a contrary, it is a philosophical designation to distinguish those who are members in re, as later he will discuss those who are members in voto.
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Those who regard encyclicals as being capable of holding all kinds of error are likely to find nothing at all significant here, but for those who hold (correctly) that encyclicals cannot teach dangerous error, this is a passage of significance and weight that does not get discussed enough.

Mith,

That portion of Mystici Corporis is also discussed in the famous (and/or infamous) Holy Office Letter of 1949 to Cushing:


Quote
Toward the end of this same encyclical letter, when most affectionately inviting to unity those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, he mentions those who "are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire," and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but on the other hand states that they are in a condition "in which they cannot be sure of their salvation" since "they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church" (AAS, 1. c., p. 243). With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion (cf. Pope Pius IX, Allocution, <Singulari quadam>, in <Denzinger>, n. 1641 ff.; also Pope Pius IX in the encyclical letter, <Quanto conficiamur moerore>, in <Denzinger>, n. 1677).


https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/letter-to-the-archbishop-of-boston-2076

DR
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