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Offline stevusmagnus

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EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
« on: November 20, 2010, 03:04:23 PM »
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    Catholics under the age of 18 or those who wish to avoid temptation should avoid this whole thread. Graphic details are contained in this thread.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/the-pope/8148944/The-Pope-drops-Catholic-ban-on-condoms-in-historic-shift.html

    The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms in historic shift

    Pope Benedict XVI will this week signal a historic shift in the position of the Roman Catholic Church by saying condoms can be morally justified.

    After decades of fierce opposition to the use of all contraception, the pontiff will end the Church's absolute ban on the use of condoms.

    He will say that it is acceptable to use a prophylactic when the sole intention is to "reduce the risk of infection" from Aids.

    While he will restate the Catholic Church's staunch objections to contraception because it believes it interferes with the creation of life, he will argue that using a condom to preserve life and avoid death can be a responsible act - even outside marriage.

    Asked whether "the Catholic Church is not fundamentally against the use of condoms," he replies: "It of course does not see it as a real and moral solution.

    "In certain cases, where the intention is to reduce the risk of infection, it can nevertheless be a first step on the way to another, more humane sɛҳuąƖity."

    He will stress that abstinence is the best policy in fighting the disease, but accept that in some circuмstances it is better for a condom to be used if it protects human life.

    "There may be justified individual cases, for example when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be...a first bit of responsibility, to redevelop the understanding that not everything is permitted and that one may not do everything one wishes.

    "But it is not the proper way to deal with the horror of HIV infection."

    The groundbreaking announcement will come in a book to be published by the Vatican next week based on the first face-to-face interview given by a Pope.

    In the interview, he admits he was stunned by the sex abuse scandal that has engulfed the Catholic Church and raises the possibility of the circuмstances under which he would consider resigning.

    Passages published exclusively in The Sunday Telegraph today reveal the 83-year-old pontiff saying he is aware his "forces are diminishing", but show a Pope determined to fight for the place of faith in the public square.

    His language in attacking the use of recreational drugs in the West and its impact on the rest of the world is particularly striking, describing drug trafficking as an "evil monster" that stems from the "boredom and the false freedom of the Western world."

    Most significant, however, are his comments on condoms, which represents the first official relaxation in the Church's attitude on the issue after growing calls from cardinals for the Vatican to adopt a more humane approach to stopping the spread of HIV.

    Although the Pope's ruling is aimed specifically to stop people infecting their partners, particularly in Africa where the disease is most prevalent, it will inevitably be seized upon by liberal Catholics in Britain who oppose the Church's longstanding stance against contraception.

    High-profile Catholics including Cherie Blair have stated publicly that they use birth control.

    The move by Pope Benedict is particularly surprising because he caused controversy last year by suggesting condom use could actually worsen the problem of Aids in Africa.

    He described the epidemic in the continent as "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".

    The Vatican later amended an official version of the Pope's remarks to indicate that he said merely that condoms "risk" aggravating the problem.

    However, there have been growing calls for the Church to clarify its position with a more humane response to the problem, with theologians stating that condoms are not a contraceptive if they are intended to prevent death rather than avoid life.

    Pope Benedict's comments in the book, called Light of the World, are likely to be welcomed by Catholic leaders in the west who have struggled to explain its current teaching.
    Asked last year whether a married faithful Catholic couple should use condoms where one of them had Aids, Archbishop Vincent Nichols, head of the Church in England and Wales revealed the confusion over the issue.

    "Obviously that's a very sensitive point and obviously there are different views on that," he said.

    Hardline Catholics are likely to be surprised and dismayed by the Pope's comments as they argue that condoms can only be used as contraceptives.

    There has been great anticipation ahead of the release of the book, heightened by its author, Peter Seewald, who teased that it could be "a big sensation".

    "It is the first time that a Pope gives an account of himself in this form," he said.

    "It is the first personal interview with a Pope in the Church's history."

    According to sources in Rome, he gives his most personal account to date of the distress caused to him by the clerical sex abuse scandal, with particular reference to the cases in Germany and Ireland.

    He says that he did not consider resigning over the crisis, but does raise the possibility of a Pope resigning if he was to lose his mental capacities.

    In extracts given to the Sunday Telegraph, he remembers the last time he saw John Paul II, his predecessor; talks of his reluctance to become Pope; and speaks of his increasing frailty.

    "I had been so sure that this office was not my calling, but that God would now grant me some peace and quiet after strenuous years," he says.

    "I trust that our dear Lord will give me as much strength as I need to be able to do what is necessary. But I also notice that my forces are diminishing."

    Pope Benedict came in to office with a reputation for being hardline and dogmatic, but he appears humble and conciliatory in the interview.

    He says that it is incorrect to think of the Pope as "an absolute ruler whose thinking and will are law", adding that Catholics should not be seen as his subordinates.

    "In that respect the Pope is, on the one hand, a completely powerless man.

    "On the other hand, he bears a great responsibility."
    The pontiff is highly critical of the "craving for happiness" in the West, which he says leaves a trail of destruction in its wake.

    "I believe we do not always have an adequate idea of the power of this serpent of drug trafficking and consumption that spans the globe," he says.

    "It destroys youth, it destroys families, it leads to violence and endangers the future of entire nations.

    This, too, is one of the terrible responsibilities of the West: that it uses drugs and that it thereby creates countries that have to supply it, which in the end exhausts and destroys them."

    He continues: "A craving for happiness has developed that cannot content itself with things as they are."

    Talking about sex tourism, he says: "The destructive processes at work in that are extraordinary and are born from the arrogance and the boredom and the false freedom of the Western world."


    Offline Telesphorus

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 03:13:00 PM »
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  • You know, when the Popes started to talk like modernists and universalists, they implicitly that these sins are really serious.

    They can say all sorts of things are sinful but they make sure the priests are trained to tell penitents in the confessional not to worry about.

    The Pope says this:

    Quote
    Hell is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, the Pope has said.


    Then:

    Quote
    Vatican officials said that the Pope — who is also the Bishop of Rome — had been speaking in “straightfoward” language “like a parish priest”. He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that Hell is a “state of eternal separation from God”, to be understood “symbolically rather than physically”.


    He was speaking in a straightforward manner but he didn't really mean it?

    "Like a parish priest" - you mean he's saying that for the simple believers but he doesn't really think it's real?



    Offline stevusmagnus

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #2 on: November 20, 2010, 03:16:40 PM »
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  • I'm waiting for the Catholic Answers full moral defense of condom use anytime now...

    Offline Alexandria

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #3 on: November 20, 2010, 03:18:36 PM »
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  • No doubt their very own Jimmy Aiken is working on one this very moment.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #4 on: November 20, 2010, 03:19:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    I'm waiting for the Catholic Answers full moral defense of condom use anytime now...


    You know, they always take two lines on these issues.  The public one and the private one.

    Didn't a moderator there once tell a man he should go to confession and confess the sin of telling his wife she was not going to have an abortion?

    Does someone have a link to that thread?  The real attitude of these people is glaringly obvious.  The real danger - is that this sort of hypocrisy exists in Tradition too and needs to be guarded against - not defended.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #5 on: November 20, 2010, 03:27:51 PM »
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  • The sad thing is that I'm not even going to bother discussing this with family members.  They will blame the media for misrepresenting what the Pope says, or say it's just a limited case that doesn't approve contraception at all.  There's no getting through to the root of the problem with them.  It's too troubling for them.

    Offline Alexandria

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #6 on: November 20, 2010, 03:33:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    The sad thing is that I'm not even going to bother discussing this with family members.  They will blame the media for misrepresenting what the Pope says, or say it's just a limited case that doesn't approve contraception at all.  There's no getting through to the root of the problem with them.  It's too troubling for them.


    Any one here that has lived throught this post-VII nonsense from the beginning sees all of the familiar MOs.  It always starts out "in certain circuмstances"...that is just to get people used to the idea.  

    He seems to see nothing wrong with male prostitution either.

    I really can't believe this article.  Shame on me for believing in him to be a sincere though misguided true pope.  I should have known better.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #7 on: November 20, 2010, 03:34:53 PM »
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  • It has already started...

    Quote
    As usual the media takes comments out of context...this is not what Pope Benedict was saying at all. They'll take any snippet they can, wildly distort it, and try to undermine the Church. Condoms are still banned - I hope Catholics don't believe this story, though it is spreading fast around the news. Hopefully people will take the time to read what he actually said and not take the misleading headlines, like the title of this thread, as truth.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 03:35:46 PM »
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  • This really blows my mind. I need time to digest.

    Offline Dawn

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #9 on: November 20, 2010, 03:39:18 PM »
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  • Looks like they are already accepting it and defending him. And, circling the wagons for anyone who says that a real pope can not make such statements on other sites.
    It is the sifting of the goats from the lambs. If they continue to accept this man as pope they have certainly been warned on other so-called Catholic sites.

    Offline Alexandria

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #10 on: November 20, 2010, 03:41:00 PM »
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  • Quote
    circling the wagons for anyone who says that a real pope can not make such statements on other sites.


    What do you mean?


    Offline Dawn

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #11 on: November 20, 2010, 03:57:19 PM »
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  • I saw someone on Angelqueen say that this is being taken out of context and will be used by those who hate Benedict and say he is not the pope.

    DUH! Of course he is not a true pope.

    Offline Alexandria

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #12 on: November 20, 2010, 03:59:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Dawn
    I saw someone on Angelqueen say that this is being taken out of context and will be used by those who hate Benedict and say he is not the pope.

    DUH! Of course he is not a true pope.


    What is to take out of context?  It is pretty clear to me what he is saying.  


    Offline Dawn

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #13 on: November 20, 2010, 03:59:47 PM »
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  • Course it kinda links with this old news item:

    Cardinals and Bishops attend a mass lead by Pope Benedict XVI for the African Synod in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican October 4, 2009.
     
    Cardinals and Bishops attend a mass lead by Pope Benedict XVI for the African Synod in St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican October 4, 2009.
    Photograph by: Alessandro Bianchi, Reuters

    ROME - A singer in the Vatican choir had sex with one of the pope's gentlemen-in-waiting and procured male escorts on his behalf, the Italian weekly Panorama reported on Friday.

    Telephone intercepts collected as part of an extensive corruption probe into Angelo Balducci showed that 40-year-old Nigerian Chinedu Thomas Ehiem would find men on the "Pianeta Escort" (Planet Escort) website and set up encounters between them and Balducci in his apartment in Rome, the weekly said.

    In an interview with Panorama, Ehiem said that he had sex with Balducci "for five or six months" because of financial problems.

    After a lengthy period without making contact, Balducci then got back in touch with Ehiem, asking him to organize encounters for him via the Internet.

    "He asked and I executed. He would give me 50 or 100 euros ($70 or $140 Cdn), never more than 1,000 or 1,500 euros ($1,400 or $2,100 Cdn) a year," said Ehiem, adding that for Balducci "a 26-, 27-year-old man was too young. He preferred meeting mature people — 40 or older."

    The last meeting between Balducci and Ehiem took place in January when Ehiem said he organized an encounter with "a dark-haired Hungarian in his forties."

    Balducci is part of the Gentlemen of His Holiness, a group that helps the pope greet dignitaries visiting the Vatican.

    He was arrested on February 10 and then removed from his position in the Vatican fraternity.

    Ehiem was kicked out of the Vatican choir on Wednesday.

    The Catholic Church is currently enmeshed in a scandal over alleged sɛҳuąƖ abuse of members of a boy choir formerly headed by Pope Benedict XVI's brother Georg, now 86, in the southern German city of Regensburg.
    © Copyright (c) AFP


    Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Vatican+chorister+hired+escorts+papal+attendant+Report/2646352/story.html#ixzz15rX58Q00

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    EXPLICIT MATERIAL - The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms
    « Reply #14 on: November 20, 2010, 04:01:57 PM »
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  • Any stranger one fornicates with may have HIV, which is fatal.

    Therefore, if true, this moral allowance would justify condom use in every case of intercourse except a marriage where both spouses are certain they do not have HIV.

    And how does one have 100% certainty the other spouse does not have HIV? Isn't there always a remote chance one spouse could have had intercourse with someone else or did intravenous drugs unbeknownst to the other?

    If this turns out to be true, it could be the exception that swallows the rule and the artificial contraception ban could be out the window.