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Offline XavierSem

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http://www.jesusmariasite.org/exorcism-human-demon-judas-speaks/

These exorcisms were given in the late 70s. They support Archbishop Lefebvre, the Society and Catholic Tradition, while mentioning what we should strive to do to respond to the Church Crisis. See a comparison of the True Mass and the New Mass here: https://lms.org.uk/missals It is not true the New Mass is always invalid, what is true is it is inferior and there is less grace there.

8 Priests including the spiritual director of the woman involved expressed their conviction of the authenticity of the revelations made.

This is where it was said, among other things, that "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph". People will interpret that in different ways, I guess, so that even the SSPV or the FSSP or the Resistance could claim it would apply to them, or the Society after purification. But leaving that aside, there are more than sufficient reasons, all things considered, to be Catholic Traditionalists in Communion with Rome working for the restoration of Tradition in the Church and for the Church. That's arguably the right traditional Catholic position.

Note: Judas being called a demon can be interpreted in different ways, even the Lord calls him so,Jn 6:71Jesus answered them: Have not I chosen you twelve; and one of you is a devil?" in a general sense, it could mean no more than that he is a damned or lost soul.

Do you believe these exorcisms? it's possible demons may try to lie at times, of course, but most exorcists have ways to prevent that.

ECÔNE IS ON THE GOOD ROAD
Many are searching for it.


J: Ecône will triumph.
E: What is that you said? Repeat that, Judas Iscariot! Who were you speaking about? In the name of Jesus, repeat, it, tell the truth and nothing but the truth!
J: After a long struggle, Ecône will triumph.
E: Speak in the name of Jesus!
J: Ecône is on the unique good road.
E: Is that the truth? Is it Heaven who said that? Speak, in the name of Jesus!
J: When I say: the good road I do not wish to say that there is nobody else on the good road; but the road which Ecône follows is singularly good. That is what we mean. There are not many roads which are good, but there are many people who are on the good road. Ecône is on the good road and many people do not recognize Ecône are searching for the truth, and so they also are on the good road.
E: Continue, in the name..., say what you must say!
J: Archbishop Mgr. Lefebvre will still have a great deal to suffer, but he is good.
E: Continue, in the name... say what you must say.
E: Is the liturgy he follows good? Tell the truth, in the name of Jesus!
J: The liturgy he follows is the only good one.
E: Is this the truth, in the name of Jesus?
J: It is the complete truth.
E: In the name of the Most Holy Trinity, have you lied?
J: No! It is the complete truth.
E: Where does it come from? Who ordered you to say that? Speak, in the name...!
J: It is She (he points upward) who says it; it is Those up there Who say it. The truth comes from on High. They, up there, do not like the new liturgy. In any case, the old Missal did not need to be modified... I am saying all of this against my will (he cries and sighs). In today's times, one should not obey all the bishops any longer.
E: There are still some good bishops. Speak, in the name of..., nothing but the truth!
J: There are still some who should be obeyed, but not all! Akabor has spoken about that previously (he sighs and has difficulty breathing)..

(some other excerpts)

J: The Blessed Sacrament, the Blessed Sacrament. It is no longer adored any more; It has been put completely to one side. Exposition (of the Blessed Sacrament) rarely takes place. There are still a few ceremonies of Reparation in the churches of the “Traditionalists”; apart from that, it is now the exception (rather than the rule). And yet...if you knew how great this Sacrament is!

E: Continue, in the name...!
J: If it were realized what blessings flowed from the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar! Such blessings used to pour from It when It was exposed outside the Tabernacle and people used to make reparation in adoration before Him! That was very beneficial for sinners. All that does not happen any more, which is the reason fewer souls are saved - I would like to stop talking, I really would!

E: Continue, as ordered by the Blessed Virgin, say everything she charges you to say and nothing but the truth!

J: The Marial Congregation used to be good, but now it is no longer good. In the places where it does still exist, it is not good any more; however, it has gone out of existence practically everywhere, because the Blessed Virgin has been eliminated in a big way from the churches. There are no longer many people who act according to her wishes and desires; there are few who imitate her perfect devotion as described by Saint Louis -Marie Grignion de Montfort.

It must be said that it is difficult. Perfect devotion and the gift of oneself is not easy, not easy. We want to hinder that sort of thing, but it would be the best thing men could do - at least, one of the best things. She (he points upward) is very powerful and protects her children - protects them as She would have protected me, if only I had been willing (he sighs despairingly) ... Only prayer and penance can help now, but there are few who devote themselves to those (he breathes deeply, painfully)."
"And as to yourself, tell them that because you are imperfect, weak and infirm, you stand in need of Communion." (Introduction to the Devout Life, St. Francis)

Offline Pax Vobis

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The Econe spoken of was the mindset and orthodoxy of +ABL.  The new-econe of +Fellay is not the same as +ABL.


Offline poche

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The Devil is a liar.

Offline XavierSem

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And there are ways to prevent him from lying and compel him to tell the Truth. When Jesus compelled demons in the Bible, they had to confess the Truth that he was the Son of God. Or do you not believe these texts of Sacred Scripture, Poche? Mark 1:24 Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God. and Luk 4:34 "Saying: Let us alone, what have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the holy one of God."

Our Lady has likewise compelled demons to confess the Truth about Her and about other things many times in history.

There is also Our Lady of Akita's heavenly guidance, which (1) even Rome and the local Bishop accepted; and (2) tells you modern Catholics there has been an infiltration fo the Church, and She is now in a terrible crisis. To deny this is simple denial.

And, for the extremists on the other side, who claim the NO is always invalid or is like a Black Mass, which is absolutely false and makes a mockery of the Teaching Church's Indefectibility, (1) Our Lady could never have failed to inform Sr. Agnes Sagasowa of Japan of that if it were true. And even (2) Bp. Williamson accepts Our Lady of Akita's message and guidance, and the view of H.E. whom you proclaim leader and guide of the Resistance is not exactly the same as yours on the New Mass.

Pax, if anything other than "Econe" was said, you may have a case (e.g. the SSPX will triumph, but we are the SSPX). Econe is rather specific. The Orthodox may claim to be the Catholic Church (they are not), but they cannot claim to be Rome. The Resistance can claim to still be the SSPX if it wants to, but it cannot realistically claim to be Econe, the headquarters of the SSPX. Irrespective of downthumbs and other such things, that is the truth. God has been and still is with the SSPX. It is His Work, His Bishops and Priests are actively trying to discern His Wil and obey it in all things. He will never forsake those who believe Him, trust His promises and try to obey His manifest Will. Even if the world denies it, Econe will surely triumph in the end.
"And as to yourself, tell them that because you are imperfect, weak and infirm, you stand in need of Communion." (Introduction to the Devout Life, St. Francis)

Offline Meg

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The Catholic Church has not ever taught that we are to rely or accept the testimony of demons in order to determine truth. Even the nutty charismatics, as far as I know, don't believe that, though they are very much into prophesy wherever they can find it.


Offline XavierSem

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St. Montfort distinguishes 3 facts and the assent we give them, those in Scripture, which we give divine faith. Natural facts outside it, which we give human faith. And miraculous or supernatural facts outside Scripture, which we give pious faith. He relates the incident that when the Rosary was made known, God was pleased that demons should be compelled to confess they are driven out by its recitation.

"They went on to testify that by preaching the Rosary he put horror into the very depths of hell and that he was the man they hated most throughout the whole world, because of the souls which he snatched from them through devotion to the Holy Rosary; They then revealed several other things ... Then, using all their cunning, so as not to answer, the devils wept and wailed in such a pitiful way that many of the people wept also, out of purely natural pity ... "Dominic, we beseech you, by the passion of Jesus Christ and by the merits of His Holy Mother and of all the saints, let us leave the body of this man without speaking - for the angels will answer your question whenever you wish. After all, are we not liars? So why should you want to believe us? Please don't torture us any more; have pity on us." ... Saint Dominic said, and kneeling down he prayed to Our Lady:

"Oh most worthy Mother of Wisdom, I am praying for the people assembled here who have already learned how to say the Angelic Salutation properly. Please, I beg of you, force your enemies to proclaim the whole truth and nothing but the truth about this, here and now, before the multitude." She struck the possessed man with a golden rod that she held and said: "Answer my servant Dominic at once." (Remember, the people neither saw nor heard Our Lady, but only Saint Dominic.) ... "Then listen well you Christians; the Mother of Jesus Christ is all powerful and she can save her servants from falling into hell. She is the Sun which destroys the darkness of our wiles and subtlety. It is she who uncovers our hidden plots, breaks our snares and makes our temptations useless and ineffectual.

"We have to say, however reluctantly, that not a single soul who has really persevered in her service has ever been damned with us; one single sigh that she offers to the Blessed Trinity is worth far more than all the prayers, desires and aspirations of all the saints ... "Now that we are forced to speak we must also tell you this: nobody who perseveres in saying the Rosary will be damned, because she obtains for her servants the grace of true contrition for their sins and by means of this they obtain God's forgiveness and mercy."

Then Saint Dominic had them all say the Rosary very slowly and with great devotion, and a wonderful thing happened: at each Hail Mary that he and the people said together a large group of devils issued forth from the wretched man's body under the guise of red-hot coals." http://op54rosary.ning.com/forum/topics/saint-dominic-during-an-exorcism-forces-the-demons-to-speak-truth

Why would God not have provided such guidance during Vatican II times? He did in Fatima before it, at Akita after it, as well as here.
"And as to yourself, tell them that because you are imperfect, weak and infirm, you stand in need of Communion." (Introduction to the Devout Life, St. Francis)

Offline forlorn

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Maybe it's the fact you take the words of demons and inhabitants of Hell as Gospel that you believe such crazy contradictions that Ladislaus will be damned for not being in Communion with Rome, while also venerating Archbishop Lefebvre who was EXCOMMUNICATED by Rome and being a member of his Society. And your ridiculous contradiction that the Conciliar hierarchy is valid but that we should ignore most of the Bishops and that their Mass is impious and lacking the Blessed Sacrament. 

If you had any honesty and rationality you'd see the inherent contradiction there and make up your mind.

Offline XavierSem

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You have misrepresented many things. First, I don't agree with those who say the New Mass is Invalid or is as a Black Mass and have explicitly rejected that in my posts. If you read the book containing the whole text of these exorcisms, you will see it explained in more detail; and Archbishop Lefebvre has often said something very close to it, and Bp. Williamson has expressly stated so many times. "The same thing applies to the Holy Mass. The Mass of Saint Pius V is considered by Those up there (he points upward), by Heaven, to the preferred Mass. But many priests should be told that they have no right to trouble (or upset) people by saying: “If there is no Mass of Saint Pius V, do not go at all... say Mass [prayers] for yourselves at home on your own”. This attitude is not good. In spite of everything, such a priest is not a good pastor (of souls). For we have already said it on a previous occasion: It is a huge loss of graces, it is true, but the New Mass to the degree in which it is celebrated in all good faith and through obedience to the bishop, still brings nevertheless, many graces. Even if it does not have the plenitude of graces of the Mass of Saint Pius V, it brings some graces all the same. If people stay at home and believe that they only have to open up their missals, thus believing themselves to be better and superior to the rest, this is not good. There are also some “traditionalists” who exalt themselves above the modernists. Those up there do not want any of that. That is not the Spirit of On High (he points upward). They think in Heaven that this smacks of phariseeism, and no one has the right to be like that. She makes me say that there are also many “traditionalists” who are full of themselves... We do not wish to speak any more! ... I have to say this also: they are defrauded of Christ and of the fullness of the graces, it is true, but certain graces are still attached to it. Especially when good Christians, of deep faith, go to Mass and Communion full of devotion, with the intention of receiving Christ, then Heaven is fair enough not to say simply: “Because the priest is not doing things properly, there will be no graces here!” Those people nevertheless do receive certain graces ... If the people have the opportunity of going to a Mass of Saint Pius V, then Heaven prefers that, very much so. But if there is no other possibility, they may go to another Mass. After the Mass of Saint Pius V in Latin, the Tridentine Mass in the vernacular comes in second place, provided that it comprises the totality of the words of the Tridentine Mass as far as this is possible. Only after these, in third place, comes the New Mass. But those people, if they do not know these things and are of good faith, nevertheless fulfill their duty to the Lord, in so far as that is their intention."

Archbishop Lefebvre: "Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation ... Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism." http://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass

And Bishop Williamson: "While the new religion is false, is dangerous, and it strangles grace, and it’s helping many people to lose the faith, at the same time there are cases where it can be used and is used to build the faith ... Therefore there are cases when even the Novus Ordo Mass can be attended with an effect of building one’s faith instead of losing it ... Stay away from the Novus Ordo [in general] But exceptionally, if you’re watching and praying, even there you may find the grace of God. If you do, make use of it in order to sanctify your soul.”

Lastly, as some of Rome's own canon lawyers admitted, The Dean of the Faculty of Canon Law of the Catholic Institute of Paris, Fr. Patrick Valdrini, confirmed that “it is not the consecration of a bishop that creates a schism; what consummates the schism is to confer upon that bishop an apostolic mission”  ... Finally, on January 21, 2009, a decree of the Congregation for Bishops, signed by its Prefect, Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, based on the faculties expressly granted by Pope Benedict XVI, declared the decree of July 1, 1988, to be deprived of any juridical effect. (Valeurs Actuelles, July 4, 1988). https://fsspx.org/en/sspx%E2%80%99s-bishops Archbishop Lefebvre knew this, that's why he specially told the Bishops he consecrated that he was not conferring a mission or ordinary jurisdiction upon them, as only the Pope could do that. So, Rome's own canon lawyers admitted such an intent changes things. Later on, the decree was deprived of effect.

Also, I didn't say Ladislaus will be damned or anything like that. I told him the right position is being traditional Catholics in communion.
"And as to yourself, tell them that because you are imperfect, weak and infirm, you stand in need of Communion." (Introduction to the Devout Life, St. Francis)


Offline forlorn

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Why would the New Mass, if validly promulgated by the legitimate Catholic hierarchy, be imperfect or grant any less graces than the Mass of St. Pius V?

Quote
Trent - ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS
CANON VI.--If any one saith, that the canon of the mass contains errors, and is therefore to be abrogated; let him be anathema.

 

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