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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Miseremini on May 07, 2019, 05:41:29 PM

Title: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Miseremini on May 07, 2019, 05:41:29 PM
 :facepalm:
I don't have words to describe this moronic concept.  The first thought that came to mind was the scene from the movie the Passion where Jesus was accused of invoking a devil to drive out devils.
This time I think Rome is opening a can of worms it's going to sorely regret.  Worse than playing with a ouji board.
I wonder if Pablo will attend.


Exorcism goes mainstream: Combined Churches assemble in Rome to learn ‘best practice’ eviction of demons
Jamie SeidelNews Corp Australia Network
May 7, 2019 3:51PM

TOPICS
Science (https://www.perthnow.com.au/technology/science)Health & Wellbeing (https://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing)World News (https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/world)Fitness (https://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/fitness)

Exorcism is going multi-denominational. Where once those competing for the souls of followers would burn each other as heretics and engage in bloody wars, the world’s mainstream Christian denominations are now rallying together to battle a resurrected threat.
And that’s no less than Satan himself.
The Roman Catholic Church has for the first time opened up its annual exorcism class in Rome to representatives of all major Christian faiths. The Pontifical University of Regina Apostolorum is a Vatican-affiliated university in Rome has been conducting the increasingly popular annual exorcism conventions for Catholic priests for the past 14 years.
But now the doors of the 14th Exorcism and Prayer of Liberation Course (https://sacerdos.org/en/exorcism-and-prayer-of-liberation/)has been thrown open to groups once considered heretical and demon-infested only a few short centuries ago.

Now some 250 Catholics, Lutherans, Greek Orthodox and Protestant priests have assembled to arm themselves with the sword of the holy word to battle Satan amid the souls of their parishoners.
It is itself a dark art, born of a dark age.
The Catholic Church, however, insists demonic possession is on the rise.
In 2014, it formally recognised the ancient ritual of exorcism under Canon Law at gave official approval to the formal creation of the International Association of Exorcists.
It blames the secularisation of society (separation of religion and state) along with the increasing popularity of competing religions, tarot readings, astrology, the internet and atheism for opening the demonic floodgates.
And the best way to fix this, it believes, is to tackle the ‘possessed’ head-on.

Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Stubborn on May 08, 2019, 06:45:14 AM
 I second the motion.
:facepalm:
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Maria Regina on May 08, 2019, 10:36:59 AM
Perhaps this joint convocation is an attempt to stomp on the Devil, but the evil spirits will say "Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but who are you?" (Acts 19:15)

Next, all these denominations will be celebrating the Lord's Supper together.

Some have been "sharing the Eucharist" perhaps under the guise that more ministers will have more power.  Do they sense that they are losing power as individuals or is this just a way to boost their own self esteem and continue to lead their denominations astray?  

More modernism leads to more ecumenism. Soon the world's religions will unite under the Antichrist.

Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Miseremini on May 08, 2019, 11:07:45 AM
It all boils down to Rome teaching lay people to invoke the devil.
They are NOT ordained!  They are literally playing with the fire of hell.
I believe this will unleash even more evil.
This should scare the hell out of us all.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Kazimierz on May 08, 2019, 11:54:52 AM
"We were able to reach Lucifer at his summer condo in South Gehenna, to ask him what he thinks about laymen, heretics and schismatics being able to perform exorcisms. . . . ."

(http://dreamicus.com/data/satan/satan-04.jpg) Keep it up Frankie baby!
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: poche on May 10, 2019, 01:33:39 AM
Will the CMRI be participating?
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Nadir on May 10, 2019, 02:35:11 AM
I never realised you had a sense of humour, Poche! :jester:
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: poche on May 10, 2019, 11:17:36 PM
I never realised you had a sense of humour, Poche! :jester:
There was an incident where the CMRI priest was able to drive out a demon where the Novus Ordo priest was unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: 2Vermont on May 11, 2019, 09:14:30 PM
There was an incident where the CMRI priest was able to drive out a demon where the Novus Ordo priest was unsuccessful.
Tell me more.  
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: poche on May 11, 2019, 10:52:56 PM
Tell me more.  
There is not much that can be said. It was confirmed that there was an attempt by a Novus Ordo priest to exorcize someone. That attempt failed. A CMRI priest made an attempt and was successful.  
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Last Tradhican on May 12, 2019, 02:33:40 AM
Below is an exorcism account from 1800's. This exorcism is relevant because of the involvement of Protestant ministers and the devil telling the Protestant ministers that they are in league with him, and do his work.

 The Exorcism of Nicola Aubrey 


Excerpt

As the strange circumstances of Nicola's possession became known everywhere, several Calvinist preachers came with their followers, to "expose this popish cheat," as they said. On their entrance, the devil saluted them mockingly, called them by name, and told them that they had come in obedience to him. One of the preachers took his Protestant prayer-book, and began to read it with a very solemn face. The devil laughed at him, and, putting on a most comical look, he said: "Ho! Ho! My good friend; do you intend to expel me with your prayers and hymns? Do you think that they will cause me any pain? Don't you know that they are mine? I helped to compose them!" 

 

"I will expel thee in the name of God," said the preacher, solemnly.

 

"You!" said the devil, mockingly. "You will not expel me either in the name of God, or in the name of the devil. Did you ever hear of one devil driving out another?" 

 

"I am not a devil," said the preacher, angrily, "I am a servant of Christ."

 

"A servant of Christ, indeed!" said Satan, with a sneer. "What! I tell you are worse than I am. I believe, and you do not want to believe. Do you suppose that you can expel me from the body of this miserable wretch? Ha! Go first and expel all the devils that are in your own heart!"

 

The preacher took his leave, somewhat discomfited. On going away, he said, turning up the whites of his eyes, "O Lord, I pray thee, assist this poor creature!"

 

"And I pray Lucifer," cried the evil spirit, "that he may never leave you, but may always keep you firmly in his power, as he does now. Go about your business, now. You are all mine, and I am your master." 
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Last Tradhican on May 12, 2019, 02:35:28 AM
The Vatican II church and Protestant churchmen, just the same dung in different packaging. 
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: 2Vermont on May 12, 2019, 05:27:25 AM
There is not much that can be said. It was confirmed that there was an attempt by a Novus Ordo priest to exorcize someone. That attempt failed. A CMRI priest made an attempt and was successful.  
I found this old CI thread about it.  
https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/exorcism-performed-by-two-cmri-priests/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/exorcism-performed-by-two-cmri-priests/)

Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Meg on May 12, 2019, 09:59:01 AM
There is not much that can be said. It was confirmed that there was an attempt by a Novus Ordo priest to exorcize someone. That attempt failed. A CMRI priest made an attempt and was successful.  

I'm fairly sure that Bp. Robert McKenna performed successful exorcisms. He was sedevacantist. or maybe sedeprivationist (I don't quite remember).

It seems that apostolic succession is needed to perform a valid exorcism, and of course the protestants don't have that. And the Novus Ordo priests, even if they may have a valid ordination, they use the new prayers of exorcism, which aren't as potent as the old prayers of exorcism.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: poche on May 13, 2019, 08:04:12 AM
I'm fairly sure that Bp. Robert McKenna performed successful exorcisms. He was sedevacantist. or maybe sedeprivationist (I don't quite remember).

It seems that apostolic succession is needed to perform a valid exorcism, and of course the protestants don't have that. And the Novus Ordo priests, even if they may have a valid ordination, they use the new prayers of exorcism, which aren't as potent as the old prayers of exorcism.
Many of the Fathers of the Desert cast out demons. Most of them were monks. 
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Maria Regina on May 13, 2019, 09:49:24 AM
Below is an exorcism account from 1800's. This exorcism is relevant because of the involvement of Protestant ministers and the devil telling the Protestant ministers that they are in league with him, and do his work.

The Exorcism of Nicola Aubrey


Excerpt

As the strange circumstances of Nicola's possession became known everywhere, several Calvinist preachers came with their followers, to "expose this popish cheat," as they said. On their entrance, the devil saluted them mockingly, called them by name, and told them that they had come in obedience to him. One of the preachers took his Protestant prayer-book, and began to read it with a very solemn face. The devil laughed at him, and, putting on a most comical look, he said: "Ho! Ho! My good friend; do you intend to expel me with your prayers and hymns? Do you think that they will cause me any pain? Don't you know that they are mine? I helped to compose them!"

 

"I will expel thee in the name of God," said the preacher, solemnly.

 

"You!" said the devil, mockingly. "You will not expel me either in the name of God, or in the name of the devil. Did you ever hear of one devil driving out another?"

 

"I am not a devil," said the preacher, angrily, "I am a servant of Christ."

 

"A servant of Christ, indeed!" said Satan, with a sneer. "What! I tell you are worse than I am. I believe, and you do not want to believe. Do you suppose that you can expel me from the body of this miserable wretch? Ha! Go first and expel all the devils that are in your own heart!"

 

The preacher took his leave, somewhat discomfited. On going away, he said, turning up the whites of his eyes, "O Lord, I pray thee, assist this poor creature!"

 

"And I pray Lucifer," cried the evil spirit, "that he may never leave you, but may always keep you firmly in his power, as he does now. Go about your business, now. You are all mine, and I am your master."

Reference, please. Do you have a link to this?
There have been other stories showing the ineffectiveness of Protestant exorcisms.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Last Tradhican on May 13, 2019, 10:21:04 AM
Why do you not bother to look it up yourself? 
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: King Wenceslas on May 13, 2019, 02:48:51 PM
Quote
This time I think Rome is opening a can of worms it's going to sorely regret.

Today's Rome is not going to regret this. Latter day Rome, which is inhabited by demons, is comfortable with demons.

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist."

Prophecy fulfilled. Francis is a follower of Luther who is in hell.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Kazimierz on May 13, 2019, 08:37:54 PM
Today's Rome is not going to regret this. Latter day Rome, which is inhabited by demons, is comfortable with demons.

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist."

Prophecy fulfilled. Francis is a follower of Luther who is in hell.
With the latest stuff about Medjugoogoo and Happy Ram..etc..., I would find myself in agreement. Frankie might not be the definitive article (The AntiChrist) but dang it if he is not a forerunner. Definitely an (indefinite) antichrist.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: trad123 on May 13, 2019, 10:43:20 PM
Reference, please. Do you have a link to this?
There have been other stories showing the ineffectiveness of Protestant exorcisms.

The Holy Mass by Fr. Mueller

https://archive.org/details/theholymassthesa00mulluoft/page/66

See page 66, bottom paragraph
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Matthew on May 14, 2019, 11:32:43 AM
With all due respect to the Sede trads out there, the Pope can't be the Antichrist. Totally impossible.

Putting "Catholic Pope" and "Antichrist" in the same sentence originated with the Protestants.

Protestant heretics think the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, etc. 

Such an interpretation of Scripture, Eschatology, etc. is COMPLETELY ANTI-CATHOLIC.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Kazimierz on May 14, 2019, 02:48:16 PM
With all due respect to the Sede trads out there, the Pope can't be the Antichrist. Totally impossible.

Putting "Catholic Pope" and "Antichrist" in the same sentence originated with the Protestants.

Protestant heretics think the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, etc.

Such an interpretation of Scripture, Eschatology, etc. is COMPLETELY ANTI-CATHOLIC.
Again, it all comes down to articles. Francis cannot be THE AntiChrist, but he is behaving like AN antichrist. 
Or another way of looking at it: real vs realistic, Hellenism vs Hellenistic.
The TRUE AntiChrist will make Francis look like a motherly Sunday morning school teacher. 
I am more curious -in a nonsinful way - as what will the Papacy and conciliar Rome be AFTER the present pontificate.
Of course every day brings us that much closer to The Great Chastisement. The battle tis done, but for the Church Militant the strife is far from over.
Yesterday, tied in with Fatima perhaps, was also the anniversary of the attempted assassination of JPII.
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: ByzCat3000 on May 14, 2019, 09:57:23 PM
With all due respect to the Sede trads out there, the Pope can't be the Antichrist. Totally impossible.

Putting "Catholic Pope" and "Antichrist" in the same sentence originated with the Protestants.

Protestant heretics think the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, etc.

Such an interpretation of Scripture, Eschatology, etc. is COMPLETELY ANTI-CATHOLIC.
Before my conversion to the Catholic faith, I was the type of Reformed Protestant who still believed that Rome I was the Whore of Babylon, and that the Pope was the Antichrist.  Its taught in the Westminster Confession of Faith, which was my confession of faith prior to my conversion.

And for this reason, I have a hard time with the notion held by (many, not all) Sedes who think the same thing, just about the "Novus Ordo Church" particularly, and the "Vatican II antipopes" or a subset of them.

Furthermore, the Bible says the Antichrist will claim to be God.  I don't see any of that, either from John Paul II, or Francis, or whoever else.  That doesn't mean I think these are good popes, but I have a really hard time believing the Reformed and Lutherans were basically correct on eschatology and were just wrong on timing.  

On another note, I'm really curious about the alleged instance where a Novus Ordo priest was not able to perform an exorcism, but a CMRI priest would.  Are there any sources on that?

And since someone mentioned apostolic succession, do the Eastern Orthodox attempt exorcisms, and do they generally work?
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: poche on May 14, 2019, 11:53:35 PM
Before my conversion to the Catholic faith, I was the type of Reformed Protestant who still believed that Rome I was the Whore of Babylon, and that the Pope was the Antichrist.  Its taught in the Westminster Confession of Faith, which was my confession of faith prior to my conversion.

And for this reason, I have a hard time with the notion held by (many, not all) Sedes who think the same thing, just about the "Novus Ordo Church" particularly, and the "Vatican II antipopes" or a subset of them.

Furthermore, the Bible says the Antichrist will claim to be God.  I don't see any of that, either from John Paul II, or Francis, or whoever else.  That doesn't mean I think these are good popes, but I have a really hard time believing the Reformed and Lutherans were basically correct on eschatology and were just wrong on timing.  

On another note, I'm really curious about the alleged instance where a Novus Ordo priest was not able to perform an exorcism, but a CMRI priest would.  Are there any sources on that?

And since someone mentioned apostolic succession, do the Eastern Orthodox attempt exorcisms, and do they generally work?
There is a Fr. Aquaro, who is an Antiochene Orthodox priest who does exorcisms. I understand that Coptic monks in Egypt also do exorcisms.  
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: Nadir on May 15, 2019, 12:09:55 AM
Do you write of Orthodox Copts or Catholic Copts? How about a reference or link?
Title: Re: Exorcism: Devils drive out devils?????
Post by: poche on May 16, 2019, 12:11:15 AM
Do you write of Orthodox Copts or Catholic Copts? How about a reference or link?
They were Coptic Orthodox and it came from a source that did not have a link.