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Author Topic: ex cathedra, Francis  (Read 2424 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: ex cathedra, Francis
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2018, 11:47:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 18, 2018, 11:11:36 AM
    Yes, and I am wondering why a Catholic would downthumb that fact.

    It's probably just one of my CI stalkers.  They downthumb everything I post.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: ex cathedra, Francis
    « Reply #16 on: June 18, 2018, 11:57:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 17, 2018, 03:10:40 PM
    It's a little slippery, however, in terms of the degree to which infallibility per se applies to their being exemplars.  Does that mean they had to be perfect in every respect?  There are some saints who held theological errors even.  At what point would the Church have failed in the canonization?  Strictly speaking the major reason for the guarantee of infallibility is that the Church would not be praying officially and publicly for the intercession for someone who's in hell.
    .
    While the line isn't clear (I agree), it's clear enough to preclude JPII and John XXIII from canonization.  They were exemplars of revolution, and if it is their example (in virtually anything) that we are to be following, then we're all on the way to Hell, because we are committed opponents of virtually everything they stood for.  If you devote your every religious practice to avoiding that which is praised by the Church, you're not a son of the Church by any stretch of the imagination.  What I'm saying is that if those canonizations are legitimate, traditionalism is not. 
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: ex cathedra, Francis
    « Reply #17 on: June 18, 2018, 12:25:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 18, 2018, 11:57:30 AM
    .
    While the line isn't clear (I agree), it's clear enough to preclude JPII and John XXIII from canonization.  They were exemplars of revolution, and if it is their example (in virtually anything) that we are to be following, then we're all on the way to Hell, because we are committed opponents of virtually everything they stood for.  If you devote your every religious practice to avoiding that which is praised by the Church, you're not a son of the Church by any stretch of the imagination.  What I'm saying is that if those canonizations are legitimate, traditionalism is not.  
    .
    Quite true, especially JP II, who as pope, confirmed the heterodox interpretation of the conciliar docuмents as to their true meaning.  Regardless there is something not right about this whole business. If one does not sense this then the their sensus Catholicus needs a tune up. Knowing what I know about these "saints", I cannot lean towards giving them the benefit of the doubt, absent a recantation of error by them.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: ex cathedra, Francis
    « Reply #18 on: June 18, 2018, 03:08:26 PM »
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    Offline Nandarani

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    Re: ex cathedra, Francis
    « Reply #19 on: June 21, 2018, 06:45:31 PM »
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    • Aloha everybody.  I heard from Fr. Safreed.  I asked his permission to share information he gave me. 

    There was a reason I didn't come right back and post.  I only recently have overcome my own desire to continuously digest new information... even if it is of quality.  So, supplying information to others is a responsibility.

    There is a lot associated with this site and accessible through it. 

    The place I found within this group below linked is moving I learned recently to another location within Florida within a year.  I'm waiting for a more exact idea of new location.  Maybe I will have a chance to do both.   Have found a place in Norwood if do chose to ignore the fact of the bad air... worse than other areas of Cincinnati and other areas of Ohio.   On WCB (What Catholics Believe on youtube) in the voice of the moderator at times, and Fr. Jenkins' voice nearly all the time, one hears the effects of the air in Norwood.  Not only is he continuously busy teaching, traveling, pastoring, recording, and saving his own soul but he is also at a disadvantage because of where he must live.  I didn't know this and now recognize it as a sacrifice. 

    In terms of heritage have commonality with the below but I think of all the people attending the Eastern Rite churches.

    http://www.rosarychurch.net/history/brief2.html


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    Offline Nandarani

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    Re: ex cathedra, Francis
    « Reply #20 on: June 21, 2018, 07:02:55 PM »
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    • I wasn't born Catholic and have not actually made it into an authentic Catholic Church.  That is why anyone reading what I write may sense something missing.  It is!  I think I always had a Catholic soul even though I was born associated with Lutherans and raised in the Episcopal Church. 
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    Offline Nandarani

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    Re: ex cathedra, Francis
    « Reply #21 on: June 21, 2018, 09:55:22 PM »
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    • Fr. Safreed of Holy Family Church in Melbourne, Florida gave me permission to post his information.  I am glad to do it.  Except for greeting and closing thoughts, this is the letter he wrote:

    'Holy Family is an independant Traditional Roman Cathoic Chapel with no ties whatsoever to the Novus Ordo church.

    It is run by a lay-board who is responsible for its financial and physical well being.

    I was originally ordained by the "Mar Thoma" Orthodox church, which has valid orders. This was done with the stipulation that I would NOT become a part of their religion, and that I would remain a part of the Traditional Roman Catholic Church. They did it as a favor to my then Superior, as I belong to a very small group of Franciscans called The Franciscan Friars of the Sacred Heart.  The Traditional bishops are very political, and so I resorted to being ordained under those conditions. 

    When I came to Holy Family five years ago, I was ordained "sub-conditione" by Bishop Patrick Taylor, of Beckley, WV. He has many valid epispopal lines, of which no one can doubt, and used the traditional (Pius XII) ordinal when ordaining me sub-conditione. There can be no question about my validity. 

    While the Chapel itself is "independent," I am a sedevacantist, so I do not beleive that there has been a valid Pope since the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958. I do not include "Pope" Francis' name in the Canon of the Mass. 

    The Missal I use is that of the 1955-56 vintage, with the Holy Week as prescribed by Pius XII.'
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    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: ex cathedra, Francis
    « Reply #22 on: June 22, 2018, 05:06:28 PM »
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    • John XXII, Quia nonnunquam
     
    [color][size][font]
    "Since sometimes what conjecture believed would be useful subsequent experience shows to be harmful, it should not be judged reprehensible if the maker of the canons desires to revoke, modify or suspend canons (or things contained in them) published either by himself or by his predecessors, if they seem to him to be obstructive rather than useful."


    So a pope can make canons that are harmful. Who knew?[/font][/size][/color]
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    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle
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