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Author Topic: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX  (Read 22459 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
« Reply #240 on: December 08, 2023, 08:16:32 PM »
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  • You make it sound like sedevacantism is some kind of witchcraft.

    I see Sedevacantism as merely a thesis. We have several thesis to explain the Crisis in the Church. As I see it, it is not reasonable to be dogmatic about any of them.
    Meg really knows how to bring out the worst in people. :facepalm: She needs prayers. :pray:
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Scandals of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #241 on: December 09, 2023, 05:03:27 AM »
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  • 1. Of course it's a novel idea (but not really because theologians discussed it) but not because 'regardless of who the ones are spreading error' but precisely because of the ones who are spreading the error.  Novel ideas that aim to wreck the Church (Sillonism or Modernism, for example) are different than theological ideas which aim to preserve the papacy and indefectibility of the Church (Sedevacantism).

    2. If it was a case of a pontiff making an error in some book that would be something but really that isn't what's being talked about.  It's the universal enforcing (which he can do) of false / condemned principles, a new faith, new sacraments, new theology, new priesthood, new 'mass', new vestments, etc. (which he can't do because the Church is protected by the Holy Ghost and can't be an institution that teaches, promotes and enforces error).
    1. It was never our job to preserve the papacy and the Church's indefectibility (Sedevacantism), but if it were, we must admit that it is altogether impossible to preserve anything by first eliminating the thing you're aiming to preserve. 

    2. See, here I will stick to what I said previously. Sure, popes can enforce error all they want, but the only way to hope to cure that, is to remain steadfast in the faith and not submit to those errors as trads have done. We all know that remaining steadfast in the faith is not novel, it has always been a condition necessary for our salvation.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #242 on: December 09, 2023, 06:09:20 AM »
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  • Meg really knows how to bring out the worst in people. :facepalm: She needs prayers. :pray:
    I just do my best to ignore her (along with a couple of others) as it appears her kind of bitter zeal and anger is totally okay.

    Offline Mysterium Fidei

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    Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #243 on: December 09, 2023, 12:44:19 PM »
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  • If not for the sede movement (agree or disagree with sede-ism, i'm simply talking about the # of priests chapels they've produced), then every single Trad would be holding their breath, and praying white-knuckle that the new-sspx won't keep selling out to new-rome.  But, barring an intervention from God, the new-sspx is toast.  +Fellay will keep introducing new-rite/fake bishops/priests, keep cozying up to novus ordo diocese clerics, etc.

    Without the Nine, the sspx would have a monopoly on Tradition.  And hindsight being 20/20, we see that +Fellay and Co were infiltrators and destined to destroy it.

    So, God allowed the Nine to split off (however scandalous and wrong that breakup happened), but the CURRENT situation shows this split is a huge blessing.  Because the sspx is no longer Traditional.
    Exactly. The SSPX will do nothing but maintain the status quo or make a deal with the apostates in Rome to gain a side chapel of tradition within the Novus Ordo religion, as they are in communion with the Vatican II hierarchy. Buy continuing to recognize Bergoglio and his VII predecessors as true popes, they are not opposing anything, and they are not resisting anything.

    Sedevacantism is a fact, it is the only true "resistance", and it is the only position that hasn't in some way compromised with the Vatican II religion.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #244 on: December 09, 2023, 01:07:10 PM »
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  • Meg really knows how to bring out the worst in people. :facepalm: She needs prayers. :pray:

    She elicits these responses due to her style of taking drive-by cheap shots, making personal insults ... while never engaging directly in any substantive discussion.  It's actually the same tactic that Trump (deliberately) used to whip the Leftists up into a frenzy against him.  Trump is not particularly conservative, and the Left do not hate him more than any other Republican in history due to his hyper-conservatism.  They hate him because he takes these personal cheap shots against them, insults them, and trolls them.  This is similar to Meg's style with regard to sedevacantism.


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #245 on: December 09, 2023, 01:47:53 PM »
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  • She elicits these responses due to her style of taking drive-by cheap shots, making personal insults ... while never engaging directly in any substantive discussion.  It's actually the same tactic that Trump (deliberately) used to whip the Leftists up into a frenzy against him.  Trump is not particularly conservative, and the Left do not hate him more than any other Republican in history due to his hyper-conservatism.  They hate him because he takes these personal cheap shots against them, insults them, and trolls them.  This is similar to Meg's style with regard to sedevacantism.

    But Trump is entertaining.

    That debate he had with "sleepy Joe" was priceless.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #246 on: December 09, 2023, 02:11:07 PM »
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  • She elicits these responses due to her style of taking drive-by cheap shots, making personal insults ... while never engaging directly in any substantive discussion.  It's actually the same tactic that Trump (deliberately) used to whip the Leftists up into a frenzy against him.  Trump is not particularly conservative, and the Left do not hate him more than any other Republican in history due to his hyper-conservatism.  They hate him because he takes these personal cheap shots against them, insults them, and trolls them.  This is similar to Meg's style with regard to sedevacantism.

    I realize that you consider it like blasphemy to criticize Holy Sedevacantism. Criticizing God's Chosen People and their (your) new doctrines cannot be tolerated. I get it.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #247 on: December 09, 2023, 03:28:27 PM »
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  • I realize that you consider it like blasphemy to criticize Holy Sedevacantism. Criticizing God's Chosen People and their (your) new doctrines cannot be tolerated. I get it.
    Quod erat demonstrandum.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Evils of the Nine against the good SSPX
    « Reply #248 on: December 09, 2023, 03:44:00 PM »
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  • But Trump is entertaining.

    That debate he had with "sleepy Joe" was priceless.

    Of course he's entertaining ... if you're on "his side".  If you're on the other side of those types of insults and playground-level attacks, they get under your skin and irritate you to no end ... and that was his intent, and it's why he won so many supporters from among the conservative types and so many haters from the Left.  IMO, his role was precisely to exacerbate the animosity between Left and Right, while the real enemy, the Jews, sit back ... 

    with :popcorn: