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Author Topic: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?  (Read 2094 times)

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Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #90 on: Today at 09:11:38 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on Today at 05:42:38 AM
Yes, this.

What tom is missing is "the times."

To have trad bishops ordaining trad priests outside of the conciliar church was one thing, but to be consecrating bishops, well, for trads of those days, that was something that was confusing, believed to be gravely wrong - and it was essentially unheard of in the mid 1970s and 80s. Among most trads that heard of +Thuc doing such a thing, he was thought to be crazy, scandalous, senile, or whatever. Rumors abounded, many rumors were ridiculous, often they were wild and all over the place.
   
Those who believe +Thuc withheld proper intention simply and wrongfully believe one of those old, wild, ridiculous rumors, but apparently there's no correcting them.


You're talking abotu Novus Ordo people. Whereas I am talking about the opinions of trad Catholics.

Believing Thuc withheld intention is very credible considering he recanted of his traditionalism and there are photos of him in celebrating the Novus Ordo. Do you want me to repost those?

So enough with the smugness. We have had enough of it.
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Offline Mr G

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #91 on: Today at 09:34:49 AM »
Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on Today at 09:06:33 AM
Sorry Mr. G. Normally you are a good poster, but this time you are way off base.

I will explain why, and hopefully you can reflect and come back.

Some reasons it is absurd to make this comparison are: The accusation was not a spurious one because it was Angelus Press publicly stating this, unlike one seminarian. Even less spurious because Thucs clear mental instability makes the possibility of habitual simulation quite possible.

The suggestion that Lefebvre was a Mason, even coming from a seminarian, could indeed be listened to but they would have to some else to suggest that it might be true.With Lefebvre there is none of this, with Thuc there absolutely is. We see how much he flip flopped. So it is very reasonable to be suspicious of his Sacraments being simulated.


There has been way to much tradecuмenism going on even in our own resistance ranks, where we have far too kind to the Thucists. We can't afford to be. CMRI is becoming very popular and the risk that people will lose their souls to them is now much higher than in the past.


Plus also how will people look on us as the remnant, if we are such doctrinal fαɢɢօts by telling people Thuc line and SSPX are ok? If that is the case then why even consecrate our own Bishops like we have? It makes no sense, and is certainly not the spirit of the Martyrs.

And the TIA comparison also falls flat on its face because they are a pure cult who could never make up their mind who they were with in terms of episcopal lines.


Find a couple of priests who have done in-depth studies on Sacramental Theology and present your case and see if they agree with you or not about the validity of Archbishop Thuc consecrations.
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Offline Twice dyed

  • Supporter
Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #92 on: Today at 09:42:26 AM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on Today at 06:30:10 AM
That argument does not work as +Liénart alone ordained +Lefebvre. Majority of theologians held that one can not be consecrated a bishop without first having been ordained a priest.

I would look into the allegations of +Liénart being a freemason. From what I understand they are at best questionable, having appeared (without a source(?) shades of The Angelus??) in a later edition of the list of Freemasons in the Church hierarchy...although +Lefebvre *allegedly* stated that he believed +Liénart to have been a Freemason (*allegedly* in speeches on May 11, 1976 in Minneapolis, MN and May 27, 1976 in Montreal, Québec) and +Williamson did in EC No. 450 "Bishops Valid? -II" Feb. 27, 2016: "The Cardinal [Liénart] was a leading neo-modernist at Vatican II, and surely a Freemason himself."
   I am really quite ignorant about this topic. Are you saying that only one bishop ordained Marcel Lefebvre?... which is probably the norm. But then, why do other priests normally impose their hands on the newly ordained priest?  Isn't that to ensure that apostolic succession is guaranteed? I never really thought much about this topic of our founder.

 Re: +Lienart...Aren't those two references May 11, May 27 1976 readily available to listen to? "allegedly" could be verified and determined as fact, and further discussion can move on...

AI Overview

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was consecrated a bishop on September 18, 1947, in Tourcoing, France, by Cardinal Achille Liénart, the Bishop of Lille. The co-consecrators for the ceremony were Bishops Jean-Baptiste Fauret and Alfred-Jean-Félix Ancel. 
****************
The episcopy is the Fullness of the Priesthood, but I appreciate your doubts. All this must have been scrutinized decades ago, no?





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Online MiracleOfTheSun

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #93 on: Today at 10:15:52 AM »
Quote from: Mr G on Today at 06:35:21 AM
As you watch, you will find out who else was ordained the same day, which might explain why Fr. Jenkins holds to this theory.





So he says he trusts someone who was there who says +Lefebvre made a mistake. I'd never heard that before. Thanks for the links.
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Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: Is there evidence that +Thuc ordinations are invalid?
« Reply #94 on: Today at 10:24:35 AM »
Quote from: Mr G on Today at 09:34:49 AM

Find a couple of priests who have done in-depth studies on Sacramental Theology and present your case and see if they agree with you or not about the validity of Archbishop Thuc consecrations.
Lol. Sneaky.

You're well able to make pronouncements yourself. 

But when it comes to something you don't like, its... "call the priest"
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